If the Dees don't make the eight is it a failure?

[Trav 20]

Making the finals is not not an achievement and any club that thinks that isn't going anywhere fast. Making the finals may seem like a big deal for Melbourne as a club but across the competition it's not something that's hard to do. Given Melbourne's history you would hope for their sake if they do make the 8 and lose in week one or two it's viewed as a failure by those in the club.


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We made the finals 6 times in 10 years under Daniher and it gave me no jollies.

I agree with you. Nearly half the competition plays finals.

In and of itself it means jack.

 

[Bokonon_]

I

A GWS fan making comments about the number of first round picks in other teams

Cute

The OP is one of us but very independently minded.
Would it help if I said soŕry? We cant afford a war on another front.

 

[Sando22]

I wouldn't see it as a failure although I think the club would most certainly think it is within reach.
If they finish just outside, beat/push some good sides and not lose to the ones they should beat then the season isn't a failure.
If they go backwards on last year, lose to some sh*t sides and get a handful of thumpings then it's a failure.
To base it simply on finals or not probably isn't right

 

[Sando22]

Would be a massive failure. Melbourne cant just push the 'potential' or 'young list' spin forever.
Finishing 8th should not be all that hard.

So the Saints would be a certainty then?

 

[sonnywalters]

So the Saints would be a certainty then?

We finished 6th in 2011. 9th in 2012.
We have only been in rebuild mode for 3-4 years. We arent forever claiming to be a young side looking for excuses.

 

[DemonTim]

We finished 6th in 2011. 9th in 2012.
We have only been in rebuild mode for 3-4 years. We arent forever claiming to be a young side looking for excuses.

Who is the we that is doing this? There's been four sets of coaching staff/admins and players in the time since our last finals. Did they all collaborate after being fired?

 

[Dogs till i die]

We made the finals 6 times in 10 years under Daniher and it gave me no jollies.

I agree with you. Nearly half the competition plays finals.

In and of itself it means jack.

Agree, but making the finals is a sign that you are moving up the ladder and moving into contention. Making finals with a team on the rise is much more exciting than making it with a team good enough to make it but not good enough to win it.

 

[aussierulesrules]

This thread is quickly heading towards the bottom of the barrel.

 

[Sando22]

We finished 6th in 2011. 9th in 2012.
We have only been in rebuild mode for 3-4 years. We arent forever claiming to be a young side looking for excuses.

Zero relevance.

 

[Trav 20]

Agree, but making the finals is a sign that you are moving up the ladder and moving into contention. Making finals with a team on the rise is much more exciting than making it with a team good enough to make it but not good enough to win it.

Yep, it's part of the evolution process towards a flag, but I (nearly) always felt we were making up the numbers under Daniher.

 

[sonnywalters]

Agree, but making the finals is a sign that you are moving up the ladder and moving into contention. Making finals with a team on the rise is much more exciting than making it with a team good enough to make it but not good enough to win it.

Which is why the Dees need to make the 8. I think they can do it this year.

 

[sonnywalters]

Zero relevance.

So what is relevant? Just gaining comfort that you will be good in n + 5 years where 'n' = the current season?
If you are good and young - you should still make the 8.
If you are shit and young = wont make 8.

 

[DemonTim]

So what is relevant? Just gaining comfort that you will be good in n + 5 years where 'n' = the current season?
If you are good and young - you should still make the 8.
If you are shit and young = wont make 8.

I wish the world was this black and white. Ah how much easier everything would be if my mind were this simple.

 

[LeverPuller]

So what is relevant? Just gaining comfort that you will be good in n + 5 years where 'n' = the current season?
If you are good and young - you should still make the 8.
If you are shit and young = wont make 8.

If you are good you'll make the 8 and if you're shit you won't. That's literally what you said.

Reasons why Melbourne will make the 8:
- Natural improvement of youngsters
- Instant experience with Hibberd, Melksham and Lewis
- Already beating good sides, just needing to shore up inconsistencies

Reasons why they won't:
- The above inconsistencies
- Goodwin is untried despite the handover period
- Lack of KPP depth - if any of Hogan, Gawn or TMac go down for a significant period we are ****ed

Does the former outweigh the latter?

 

[coniglio_number1]

If you are good you'll make the 8 and if you're shit you won't. That's literally what you said.

Reasons why Melbourne will make the 8:
- Natural improvement of youngsters
- Instant experience with Hibberd, Melksham and Lewis
- Already beating good sides, just needing to shore up inconsistencies

Reasons why they won't:
- The above inconsistencies
- Goodwin is untried despite the handover period
- Lack of KPP depth - if any of Hogan, Gawn or TMac go down for a significant period we are stuffed

Does the former outweigh the latter?

Weideman and Omac/frost should be able to fill the void

 

[DemonTim]

Weideman and Omac/frost should be able to fill the void

They're already starting 22 for the most part in kpp roles. Who covers them?

Can't see any of those three performing to the level of t Mac/hogan yet
And spencer isn't really adequate to cover Gawn

Our kpp depth isn't great

 

[LeverPuller]

Weideman and Omac/frost should be able to fill the void

Nah. Weid is still 6 months away IMO. Has more of the frame but has to get used to having the size.

If Tom went down, Frost goes to the #1 snd Garland comes in as the rebound which is a definite downgrade unless Garland 2013 resurrects himself.

And Gawn...ugh

 

[sonnywalters]

Zero relevance.

Recent examples of sides that were young + good + made 8.

Hawks 07
Pies 09
Dogs 15
GWS 16

 

[Sprout]

Recent examples of sides that were young + good + made 8.

Hawks 07
Pies 09
Dogs 15
GWS 16

Four examples over a period of ten years? This is what you're using to back up your argument?

I don't know why you're struggling so much with this. There won't be comfort in missing the 8, but the huge scope for improvement given the list profile would lessen the disappointment. Pretty simple stuff.

 

[sonnywalters]

Four examples over a period of ten years? This is what you're using to back up your argument?

I don't know why you're struggling so much with this. There won't be comfort in missing the 8, but the huge scope for improvement given the list profile would lessen the disappointment. Pretty simple stuff.

Yes it is what I am using.
What are you using? It is four more data points than every other post on here and you attack me claiming it isnt enough?

Why are you holding me to more data points than yourself or anyone else?
Why are Demons supporters providing themselves a comfort blanket before the season even starts?

Of course you should be aiming for the 8 and expecting the 8. You have 12 first round picks on your list:
Hogan, Petracca, Tyson, Jones, Watts, Viney*, Brayshaw, Oliver, Trengove, Weideman, Salem, Lewis*.

If you cant make the 8 in 2017 - then your yoof just aint that good.

 

[Sprout]

Yes it is what I am using.
What are using? It is four more data points than every other post on here and you attack me claiming it isnt enough.
Seriously. Some people.

Attacking you? How am I attacking you? No need to take it personally.

No, four singular examples over ten years is hardly compelling. If anything it proves how rare a feat it is.

It's not just the squad either. Melbourne was the youngest side fielded across the league in 14 rounds last year. Younger than Brisbane ffs.

You can call it excuses all you like. As a Saints fan your rebuild path has been entirely different to ours.

 

[DemonTim]

Yes it is what I am using.
What are you using? It is four more data points than every other post on here and you attack me claiming it isnt enough?

Why are you holding me to more data points than yourself or anyone else?
Why are Demons supporters providing themselves a comfort blanket before the season even starts?

Of course you should be aiming for the 8 and expecting the 8. You have 12 first round picks on your list:
Hogan, Petracca, Tyson, Jones, Watts, Viney*, Brayshaw, Oliver, Trengove, Weideman, Salem, Lewis*.

If you cant make the 8 in 2017 - then your yoof just aint that good.

Sigh. I know you're a garbage poster, and you refuse to read anything that doesn't confirm your preconceived ideas, but no Melbourne supporter is using it as an excuse, everyone here is saying WE SHOULD be pushing into the 8, BUT it's not the end of the world if we don't

I do enjoy your bad statistics though "out of 80 sides that made the 8 in 10 years 4 were considered young, therefore Melbourne are shit if they don't make it"

 

[Sprout]

If you cant make the 8 in 2017 - then your yoof just aint that good.

All too eager to heap everything on the success or otherwise of 2017. That statement couldn't be further from the truth.

 

[Harlequin Dream]

Melbourne needs to close the gap between their best and their worst. Win the Essendon and Carlton games and they would have played finals.

Adding senior players and depth should add that to the list. I expect them to play finals.

 

[mopsy]

Melbournes list is bottom 4 in the league for average age and experience, if they do make the finals it will be a good effort. I think they are putting together a great list, certainly not a failure if they don't make finals next season.

I hope they do make the finals next season, I think it's the most exciting time as a supporter when your team is on the upward trajectory. There is this excitement that's been missing, the unknown of how far the team can go and footy is fun again as it should be.

It's an awesome time as a supporter and Melbourne fans deserve to experience and enjoy that more than anyone.

Oh this age and experience rubbish again.

Their best 22 or 25 will actually put them in a very good age /experience bracket. 9 OR 10 players having played 100 plus games. No teenagers and only 4 or 5 what i would call juniors that is players under 22.

This age experience bull dust is crazy you can add just one say 34 yo 300 game player to your list and you go from one of the youngest and least experienced to one of the oldest most experienced.

People need to stop looking at the overall list when it comes to competitiveness and narrow it down to your top 25 30 players. Those who are actually goin to play most games those who will be the ones who get you there or not.

The average age of most premiership sides imo would be around 24 to 25 yrs of age and i would say it most teams average more than 100 games plus.
Melbournes best 22 would not be to far off these stats if they are off them at all.

One final thing lets not forget age and experince stats are not going to help you if your players are not good enough to start with and i am not infering Melbournes best 25 is not good enough they are tracking along very nicely imo.