Injuries

[Exeter]

I'm worried about our injury toll. I know that some are hangovers from corrective surgery at the end of last season but I have the uneasy feeling that we're going into the season with an unacceptable level of injuries.

I'm led to believe that the Dockers have had a charmed run with injuries over the last 12 months and that different training / fitness coaching methods have contributed to their durability and stability.

My questions are:

1. Are we doing something wrong, or could we be doing something better / different?

2. What are the Dockers doing injury management wise and is it down to luck or are they doing something worth looking at?

3. Is there anything we can learn from them (or anyone else for that matter - and not just AFL)?

I don't know much about this area so I'm looking for informed comment.

 

[Mead]

There's always a certain amount of 'why us?!' when injuries strike, but personally I just think its luck- these sort of things travel in cycles, so sooner or later every team has their turn. We aren't actually that badly placed anyway- barring further injuries, we'll be able to field our best 22 by about round 2 or 3.

If there was an error, I think perhaps it happened last year- by all accounts, 2003 was a very hard, intense preseason, and we went into round 1 of last year extremely well prepared and well motivated, as evidenced by how good we were for the first 12-15 rounds or so. I think perhaps a case could be made to say that the player group actually over-prepared, did too much hard work and peaked too soon, which meant by the last 6 weeks or so of the season, we had a lot of niggles. People like Hunter, Chick, Gaspar, Glass, Gardiner and Embley were managing injuries and still playing with them, and we're still paying for that now. Aside from a few small misfortunes, like Waters injuring his knee, thats where most of the trouble springs from.

I'm hopeful that this year, the opposite will be true- we'll start the year somewhat understrength, build up, and hit our best form on the home stretch.

 

[theorangeapple]

i think it has alot to do with luck.

Having said that, in IMO its save to assume that young KPP/ruckman are most injury prone this is evidenced by Gasper, Doogs,Hansen,Glass,Hunter, Gardiner,Johnson injuries. we have a considerable number of young talls in comparision to dockers which results in us having an increased injury toll.

as far as fitness staff go, i remember the dockers (along with the rest of the AFL) asking the eagles about our treatment of hamstrings (???) as it was apparantly a break through sometime over the last few years.

the dockers have struggled alittle with waterhouse, mcpharlin, farmer but no-where near the extent we have with ours. i think we have the worst luck in the AFL (see knee reocs list...we kick ass) for injuries...but we dont use it as an excuse and still suceed (to an extent).

 

[Hamburger]

In a fast, hard physical contact sport like footy, injuries are inevitable. Given how hard some of the tackles are I am surprised there are not more serious injuries.
Serious injuries seem to be a matter of luck, but recovery from those injuries is often dependent on the skills and experience of the support staff, and the players themselves. Are we as good in that area as some other clubs? I really do not know, but I thought is was not a good sign when both Read and Morrison suffered serious leg injuries so early after coming off a previous serious injury.....that tends ot suggest the management strategy is not as good as it could have been.
As for the idea that we currently have a long injury list....take a look at the injury list for the Brisbane Lions going into this season. I think they were in a similar position last year when the season began and they still won the Cup.
IMO, its not a question of if injuries will occur, its more a question of when and who, and whether the club has the depth to cover them.

 

[DanielKerr4]

Well i can't add to much at all, but i do think it is luck also(What a coincidence!).

I suppose its better having most of our injuries now before the season starts that having them in the middle/end of the year when it really matters.
Cheers, DK4

 

[eagleskickass]

One thing i will say is IF what Freo are doing is better than us there is fat chance of us getting the info. What is divulged about player recovery is VERY covered up. The hamstring was really a once off, in general the clubs are VERY secretive not even allowing the players to discuss with friends of family much about what happens OFF the track.

 

[Streaker]

Do we have one of those walking pools at Subi?

 

[Kenny_01]

Last few seasons with our conditioning coaches Larcom and co, our soft tissue injuries have gone down quite a bit. Other injuries may be all luck but I'm not sure if soft tissue injuries are purely luck. I think conditioning and injury management has a fair bit to do with it.

Anyone remember who our last player to tear a hamstring during a game was? It's been a while (touch wood).

 

[Streaker]

Originally posted by Kenny_01
Last few seasons with our conditioning coaches Larcom and co, our soft tissue injuries have gone down quite a bit. Other injuries may be all luck but I'm not sure if soft tissue injuries are purely luck. I think conditioning and injury management has a fair bit to do with it.

Anyone remember who our last player to tear a hamstring during a game was? It's been a while (touch wood).

Didn't Farmer tear one during the last Derby whilst trying to do a backward somersault with one and and a half twists?

 

[Ripper]

Actually you are all barking up the wrong tree. It is due to the protective effects of the purple.

 

[Streaker]

Originally posted by RIPPER_46
Actually you are all barking up the wrong tree. It is due to the protective effects of the purple.

So Troy Wilson has nothing to worry about in his Purple Adultshop Hotrod. Damn

 

[coasting]

Originally posted by Exeter
1. Are we doing something wrong, or could we be doing something better / different?

Thats difficult to tell but I think some of the injuries could have been identified earlier. Beau Waters knee, for instance, could have been identified as soon as he got to the club but it was only identified last week. Glass and Hansen's shoulder injuries could have possibly been identified earlier as well.

Originally posted by Exeter
2. What are the Dockers doing injury management wise and is it down to luck or are they doing something worth looking at?

I doubt anyone outside the FFC could tell you.

Originally posted by Exeter
3. Is there anything we can learn from them (or anyone else for that matter - and not just AFL)?

I'm sure the club is constantly looking at new information about injury management and doing its own research.

 

[Kenny_01]

Originally posted by West Coast Stre
Didn't Farmer tear one during the last Derby whilst trying to do a backward somersault with one and and a half twists?

No. He played the next week.

 

[The Passenger]

we've definetaly had our share of injuries over the year, and people will try use this as an excuse, but often soft tissue injuries are a fault of the club and their management.

knee injuries (which i think was established we've had the most knee reco's over the past decade - or close to it - on the mian board) are a bit freakish and come down to luck. It was also noteworthy Freo have had their share so one could put it down to the Subi track. Would be interesting to see where singular instance of knee damage have occured compared to other grounds - perhaps maybe we need to have the ground watered more to soften it up........

But we've definetaly had a problem with soft tissue injury as well, which Freo don't seem to. This is one area where perhaps we could try and see what they're doing.

but as people have said this is a very secretive issue.

we do have a few very injury prone people on our list - namely T Gaspar and M Gardiner - which just sometimes can't be helped, but someone like Glass has never really had this kind of injury and now its just developed.

Perhaps maybe our conditioning is not where it should be.

Do we do yoga?? I've seen the thing on how Collingwood do it, and if we don't, i'd think we definetaly should be doing it.

Maybe our training sessions are too intense.

This often occurs when a young, raw, new, inexperienced coach comes to the club and he pushes the intensity levels in an attempt to get everyone working harder.........

 

[carlyp]

Originally posted by Black Thunder
This often occurs when a young, raw, new, inexperienced coach comes to the club and he pushes the intensity levels in an attempt to get everyone working harder.........

I never thought of it like that but perhaps your right. ANyways the problem is easy solved, we just need to learn how to manage it!

 

[Moo]

Luck is a factor ...no doubt about it (& Gaspar aside who has obviously killed a black cat with a mirror whilst saying candyman 5 times)

Two other factors that stick out like Spot's manhood are -

The Freo rotation policy ...no other club swings there players around like the Dockers.

The other and I eluded to it previously is that Woosh seems to play the likes of Gardiner when they are obviously not 100%.

Now my precious ochre friends ....remember this is not simply a bagging post but has some basis. The main complaints are that the young ones last year did not get a go ....so whilst you played a 70% Gardiner in round 22, you not only pretty much guaranteed a 65% Gardiner in EF2 ....you also added extra strain. So instead of a Seaby getting a taste, Gardiner lost fitness. Also the decision to play McInstosh in the EF2 - disgrace but I digress.

I often thought that Cousins should be rested more, especially when you are destroying a team by 40 points in the last quarter.

Protective coaching - I think CC is much better at it. Rotation I think CC is much better at it. Depth/ability to not rely on a select few in the KPP where a lot of banging goes on (no not the good sort of banging...the bad sort) ...I think Freo are better at it.

Finally...we are lucky with Larcom he is world class and of course we are luckier ....we are Freo - that already makes us luckier.

Now a hammy ....take my advice Woosh - get it better, + 2 weeks and back through the WAFL ...who knows - Moo knows, thats right how do you think I got this far ...Moo knows.


Moo

 

[Mead]

Originally posted by Moo
Luck is a factor ...no doubt about it (& Gaspar aside who has obviously killed a black cat with a mirror whilst saying candyman 5 times)

Two other factors that stick out like Spot's manhood are -

The Freo rotation policy ...no other club swings there players around like the Dockers.

The other and I eluded to it previously is that Woosh seems to play the likes of Gardiner when they are obviously not 100%.

Now my precious ochre friends ....remember this is not simply a bagging post but has some basis. The main complaints are that the young ones last year did not get a go ....so whilst you played a 70% Gardiner in round 22, you not only pretty much guaranteed a 65% Gardiner in EF2 ....you also added extra strain. So instead of a Seaby getting a taste, Gardiner lost fitness. Also the decision to play McInstosh in the EF2 - disgrace but I digress.

I often thought that Cousins should be rested more, especially when you are destroying a team by 40 points in the last quarter.

Protective coaching - I think CC is much better at it. Rotation I think CC is much better at it. Depth/ability to not rely on a select few in the KPP where a lot of banging goes on (no not the good sort of banging...the bad sort) ...I think Freo are better at it.

Finally...we are lucky with Larcom he is world class and of course we are luckier ....we are Freo - that already makes us luckier.

Now a hammy ....take my advice Woosh - get it better, + 2 weeks and back through the WAFL ...who knows - Moo knows, thats right how do you think I got this far ...Moo knows.

Moo

The decision to play Gardiner late in the year was a calculated gamble, and one that we simply had to take. A double chance in the finals was on the line in round 22- so I can totally understand Worsfold taking that risk, even though in retrospect it failed to pay off. Furthermore, watching Seaby get beaten soundly by Cox at training this preseason makes it pretty clear to me that there was no way known that he was ready for AFL late last year. I'm pretty convinced that a 65% Gardie was several seasons ahead of a 100% at the time- its a risk, and a gut wrenching one at that, but for the most important regular season game of the year and one which, if we had of won, would have given us a huge advantage going into the finals, its a risk you take.

McIntosh being played was down to nostalgia, and admittedly pretty foolish, given he was clearly struggling and probably didn't want to be out there looking useless.

Cousins (again, lots of wood touching of the non sexual kind going on here) is an evergreen, hyper-fit player who thus far has shrugged a lot of injury problems- badly busted his ankle in round two, and played through it over the space of the next 5 or 6 rounds and recovered fully as the season went on. Can't see the problem with giving him heavy workloads when he can obviously handle them.

As for the young kpps, they tend to go through a season or two of injury purgatory whilst they develop- ask McPharlin or Polak or Justin Longmuir about that. If there is a difference in the injury prone-ness of our respective squads, its that most of Freos key talls are further on in their physical development than ours, which means they've (hopefully for your sake) got through the years of constant niggles that probably roughly half of all young talls deal with.

I think when chance causes things to go wrong, there is an understandable urge to find somebody to blame- nothing sucks more than seeing some of your sides' guns sidelined due to nothing but cruel fate, whilst another team gets a better ride. Sometimes though, **** happens. Another year or so will tell whether Freo have some sort of evil super-plan to avoid injuries, or whether they just happen to be on the upswing of the fate pendulum at the moment.

 

[Streaker]

Originally posted by Mead
If there is a difference in the injury prone-ness of our respective squads, its that most of Freos key talls are further on in their physical development than ours, which means they've (hopefully for your sake) got through the years of constant niggles that probably roughly half of all young talls deal with.

I think that the main reason their talls are further on in their development than ours is the fact that they have predominantly been playing AFL rather than running around in the WAFL.

Lynch, Johnson and Hansen were fit for most of last year and should have been given more opportunities.

This year we need to have them playing AFL.

 

[Kenny_01]

Moo has a point. Kerr and Cousins kept seeming to re-aggrevate their ankle injuries and while it did not stop them from playing, they were not at their best form through the early/middle parts of the season. If they had been given a few weeks off (I know Kerr missed 1 or 2 games but that was after he did it for the 3rd time wasn't it?), maybe it would have been better so they could return to top form quicker?

Eagles always tend to fade towards the end of a season, maybe that's due to injury/fitness concerns? It would worry me if my side hadn't won more than 2 of their last 7 games in a season, in 5 years. Eagles tend to start strongly though so maybe it's a bit of a payoff. But you would certainly prefer to be playing better towards the business end of a season.

 

[Altum Volantes]

Originally posted by Kenny_01
Eagles always tend to fade towards the end of a season, maybe that's due to injury/fitness concerns? It would worry me if my side hadn't won more than 2 of their last 7 games in a season, in 5 years. Eagles tend to start strongly though so maybe it's a bit of a payoff. But you would certainly prefer to be playing better towards the business end of a season.

Could be a reason why Woosh seems to be taking a slower approach to this years Wizard Cup ?, sort of pacing better for a run at the season ?

Maybe it'll make a difference, but I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[Kenny_01]

Originally posted by Black JuJu
Could be a reason why Woosh seems to be taking a slower approach to this years Wizard Cup ?, sort of pacing better for a run at the season ?

Maybe it'll make a difference, but I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Yeah, looks like it.

 

[GoEagles]

Originally posted by West Coast Stre
Do we have one of those walking pools at Subi?

I know we have lap pools in the new Eagles gym/training area. I've seen TV footage of the players doing walking laps for recovery on the Monday after the game.