Interesting comment from "Roo"

[feenix67]

Roo's been quoted in the Age http://news.realfooty.com.au/crows-must-recruit-better-says-ricciuto/20071104-12iz.html, talking about the club's need to recruit well in coming years. The comment that interested me, though, was this:

"Perhaps they need to get a little more enjoyment back into it too."

referring to pre-season training. Seems to confirm that, under NC, it's been a bit of a hard slog the last couple of years....

 

[- PC -]

Have heard similar

 

[jenny61_99]

It has been a hard slog because they haven't been rewarded for their efforts. I didn't think his comment about getting enjoyment referred to pre-season... I thought it was their footy in general. Well if they start winning, they will enjoy it that much more! Interesting he said about the skill level being down too.

 

[Malibu#27]

It has been a hard slog because they haven't been rewarded for their efforts. I didn't think his comment about getting enjoyment referred to pre-season... I thought it was their footy in general. Well if they start winning, they will enjoy it that much more! Interesting he said about the skill level being down too.

Surely you know that he isn't talking about winning games here, and rather 'non game' things - ie training.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Surely you know that he isn't talking about winning games here, and rather 'non game' things - ie training.

Apparently not

 

[cocka]

He talked about skill level as well.

Get the footies in their hands at all times in pre-season, train them for football not Tour de France.

 

[afc9798]

Roo's been quoted in the Age http://news.realfooty.com.au/crows-must-recruit-better-says-ricciuto/20071104-12iz.html, talking about the club's need to recruit well in coming years. The comment that interested me, though, was this:

"Perhaps they need to get a little more enjoyment back into it too."

referring to pre-season training. Seems to confirm that, under NC, it's been a bit of a hard slog the last couple of years....

How good my information is, is yet to be determined, but I have heard first hand that a lot of the issues with the players is exactly what Roo has stated(if you read betweeen the lines). They are not enjoying the training and the games as they are simply being drilled, rather than allowed to use their natural flair and get some fun into the mix as well. The training and routines have become almost, to quote an unnamed player, "military".

This all seems perfectly plausible to me when you look at how we play the game and how rigid and unemotional the coach is. People need to remember that they are dealing with human beings, not mechanical devices. Best examples of this are Burton and Mattner. Their games have been destroyed by a rigid structure that makes them think too much about what they have to do. Release the shackles and we may see some improvement in morale and results. The Craig shortcomings are starting to almost read like a Gary Ayres playbook.

 

[-CG-]

He talked about skill level as well.

Get the footies in their hands at all times in pre-season, train them for football not Tour de France.

The Club's been doing that the past couple of pre seasons. Actually, I think Neil Craig brought it in.

 

[Malibu#27]

The Club's been doing that the past couple of pre seasons. Actually, I think Neil Craig brought it in.

That was Blighty.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

How good my information is, is yet to be determined, but I have heard first hand that a lot of the issues with the players is exactly what Roo has stated(if you read betweeen the lines). They are not enjoying the training and the games as they are simply being drilled, rather than allowed to use their natural flair and get some fun into the mix as well. The training and routines have become almost, to quote an unnamed player, "military".

This all seems perfectly plausible to me when you look at how we play the game and how rigid and unemotional the coach is. People need to remember that they are dealing with human beings, not mechanical devices. Best examples of this are Burton and Mattner. Their games have been destroyed by a rigid structure that makes them think too much about what they have to do. Release the shackles and we may see some improvement in morale and results. The Craig shortcomings are starting to almost read like a Gary Ayres playbook.

Great post.

The biggest question in my mind regarding our future over the next 3 years is whether NC can change and adapt his coaching style and player management.

If he is set on repeating what he is already doing, i look forward to his sacking.

My hope is that this off-season will be a watershed moment of change. It may not have the dramatic results that Geelong had (they have a better list, and each situation is different) but we need that sort of 'before and after' distinction.

Lets bury the Crowbots and bring back a hungry, talented, well-drilled, aggressive, attacking footy team.

 

[CarnCrows]

Lets bury the Crowbots and bring back a hungry, talented, well-drilled, aggressive, attacking footy team.

Like 2005 & 2006 under NC?

 

[Freddy Bassett]

Im a self-confessed NC fan and think some of the comments are a bit harsh. NC is always trying too improve and is never satisfied. He may of pushed the boys too hard this year, but he will re evaluate where we are at, and try a new method. He changed the game two years ago and other teams catch up very quickly by copying. What was good in 05, is old news in 07. Give craig credit for continually changing the goalposts. Winning will have everyone grinning. I just prey the Draft Gods are with us, and give him some good cattle to play with.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

Like 2005 & 2006 under NC?

To a degree you are right. However, the competition has moved on, we (partly due to personnel/injuries) have been unable to successfully replicate the same game plan in 07. It seems the players are growing tired (physically and mentally?) of the same old same old, as indicated by their inconsistent performances and efforts. Opposition teams have 'worked us out'. In short, the honeymoon is over and the past is exactly that. Remember the same positive comments could have been said of Ayres after he got us into finals post Blight. His honeymoon ended and he didn't adapt.

Plan A has run its race, with no finals success for whatever reason.

Therefore, it's time to change for the future. Doing the same will be going backwards.

 

[Orange]

The Crows need to get back to what made South Australia the best football state in the country 20 years ago - run, handball, attack. That's why we kicked the Vic's armholes in State of Origin.

 

[Mong]

To a degree you are right. However, the competition has moved on, we (partly due to personnel/injuries) have been unable to successfully replicate the same game plan in 07. It seems the players are growing tired (physically and mentally?) of the same old same old, as indicated by their inconsistent performances and efforts. Opposition teams have 'worked us out'. In short, the honeymoon is over and the past is exactly that. Remember the same positive comments could have been said of Ayres after he got us into finals post Blight. His honeymoon ended and he didn't adapt.

Plan A has run its race, with no finals success for whatever reason.

Therefore, it's time to change for the future. Doing the same will be going backwards.

I think we need to see more than just one bad season, and let's face it, it wasn't a disastrous season, but an inconsistent one, before we conclude that Craig has lost his ability to have us playing at the top of our game. This season we beat Grand Finalists Port twice, beat the Preliminary Finalist Kangaroos the only time we played them, and split the two games against Collingwood. To summarise, only Geelong of the four preliminary finalists had our measure, and they had everone's measure. Yes, we lost games we should have won against lower teams, and there were serious issues with inconsistency this season, and a fairly bad injury list must be considered.

I think Neil Craig is now becoming somewhat a victim of his own success. The expectations have risen sharply due to good results over the last few years and are almost at an unrealistic level compared to the playing list we have. We barely had a team that was expected to finish top 4 once in the last three seasons when he took over let alone be strong enough to do that three years in a row. Only very very good playing lists manage to stay up the top for three years in a row. Other teams are capable of finishing top 4 here and there when things fall into place (Port and Kangaroos this year are an example) but they won't do it consistently. That's probably where our list sits, mainly due to a forward line that gets by on structure rather than talent.

People can be quick to write off coaches after a bad season, but remember where Geelong were this time last year, and the year before that. I mean, for the bad year we had we still made the finals. Let's see what happens over the next two years.

 

[Ozzie]

I think we need to see more than just one bad season, and let's face it, it wasn't a disastrous season, but an inconsistent one, before we conclude that Craig has lost his ability to have us playing at the top of our game. This season we beat Grand Finalists Port twice, beat the Preliminary Finalist Kangaroos the only time we played them, and split the two games against Collingwood. To summarise, only Geelong of the four preliminary finalists had our measure, and they had everone's measure. Yes, we lost games we should have won against lower teams, and there were serious issues with inconsistency this season, and a fairly bad injury list must be considered.

I think Neil Craig is now becoming somewhat a victim of his own success. The expectations have risen sharply due to good results over the last few years and are almost at an unrealistic level compared to the playing list we have. We barely had a team that was expected to finish top 4 once in the last three seasons when he took over let alone be strong enough to do that three years in a row. Only very very good playing lists manage to stay up the top for three years in a row. Other teams are capable of finishing top 4 here and there when things fall into place (Port and Kangaroos this year are an example) but they won't do it consistently. That's probably where our list sits, mainly due to a forward line that gets by on structure rather than talent.

People can be quick to write off coaches after a bad season, but remember where Geelong were this time last year, and the year before that. I mean, for the bad year we had we still made the finals. Let's see what happens over the next two years.

Finally someone gets it right. We had 9 injured players going into the season and in spite of that we still made the finals. If we had started with a full list we would have been a top 4 side. Really all this fuss about how we are slipping etc. is to quote somebody famous, "much ado about nothing'.

 

[afc9798]

Finally someone gets it right. We had 9 injured players going into the season and in spite of that we still made the finals. If we had started with a full list we would have been a top 4 side. Really all this fuss about how we are slipping etc. is to quote somebody famous, "much ado about nothing'.

How do you then explain the discord among the players and how do you explain Ricciuto's comments and how do you explain what I heard from the horse's mouth? Sure these things sometimes escalate when there hasn't been a great year, but it's not only the supporters who are making these noises.

 

[Orange]

Couldnt agree more with the last two posts BUT what sort of footy do we want the crows to play? What sort of ao on field culture do we want to have?

 

[jenny61_99]

Surely you know that he isn't talking about winning games here, and rather 'non game' things - ie training.

And where does it say that? Just because you read it as that, doesn't mean that is what he meant. There is no doubt that if they win games, they will enjoy their footy. The biggest concern is the drop in skill level. The players approached NC about the gruelling pre-season training and he decided to tone it down this year. Perhaps that is a contributing factor to their corresponding drop in skills? Interestingly, the players have since come back and said they were wrong about the hard pre-season and that they'd be better off doing it.

There is no doubt in my mind that NC is a victim of his own success - when by rights - with the list we had, we should never had done as well as we did. In the 05/06 we were the hunted. Everyone was looking for ways to beat our game plan. Next year Geelong will be the hunted, and all coaches will look for ways to bring them undone.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

How good my information is, is yet to be determined, but I have heard first hand that a lot of the issues with the players is exactly what Roo has stated(if you read betweeen the lines). They are not enjoying the training and the games as they are simply being drilled, rather than allowed to use their natural flair and get some fun into the mix as well. The training and routines have become almost, to quote an unnamed player, "military".

This all seems perfectly plausible to me when you look at how we play the game and how rigid and unemotional the coach is. People need to remember that they are dealing with human beings, not mechanical devices. Best examples of this are Burton and Mattner. Their games have been destroyed by a rigid structure that makes them think too much about what they have to do. Release the shackles and we may see some improvement in morale and results. The Craig shortcomings are starting to almost read like a Gary Ayres playbook.

That is so off target ....

Burtons jumping has not been curtailed nor his flair
Gills jumping for balls has not been curtailed.

Mattner is simply a decision by who? ......I'd suggest the defensive coach in Jonas had a huge say in that call ....yet Craig carries the can.

If you want a parkland run and catch then play SANFL.

If you want to get $250K a year as a professional football player ....then learn and accept the discipline associated with "World Class Sport"

Most team sports have set plays which are rehearsed infinitum till they are instinctive.

Not having fun .....BS! .....that would show up in performances and given our injuries and players available ....no evidence of this.

On the contrary "apparently" players have asked Craig to lift PS intensity and the lighter PS this year was not successful in the eyes of the leadership group.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

To a degree you are right. However, the competition has moved on, we (partly due to personnel/injuries) have been unable to successfully replicate the same game plan in 07. It seems the players are growing tired (physically and mentally?) of the same old same old, as indicated by their inconsistent performances and efforts. Opposition teams have 'worked us out'. In short, the honeymoon is over and the past is exactly that. Remember the same positive comments could have been said of Ayres after he got us into finals post Blight. His honeymoon ended and he didn't adapt.

Plan A has run its race, with no finals success for whatever reason.

Therefore, it's time to change for the future. Doing the same will be going backwards.

Did you read that b4 posting it

2 preliminary finals plus a final 8 position losing a final by a kick ......so plan A has run its race

Surely we would be better off improving the list so we can go the extra step instead of basically saying we have the players but the gameplan is wrong .....that's just so off the mark

This team has been in development .....look at the number of 1st / 2nd year players playing this year.

They are being taught to have a defensive side to their game which is manifesting itself on the park with a too much lean to defensive play.

If I recall the last 4-5 games of the year produced a pretty attacking game style ....is that what you want Craig to go away from?

 

[WaynesWorld19]

I think we need to see more than just one bad season, and let's face it, it wasn't a disastrous season, but an inconsistent one, before we conclude that Craig has lost his ability to have us playing at the top of our game. This season we beat Grand Finalists Port twice, beat the Preliminary Finalist Kangaroos the only time we played them, and split the two games against Collingwood. To summarise, only Geelong of the four preliminary finalists had our measure, and they had everone's measure. Yes, we lost games we should have won against lower teams, and there were serious issues with inconsistency this season, and a fairly bad injury list must be considered.

I think Neil Craig is now becoming somewhat a victim of his own success. The expectations have risen sharply due to good results over the last few years and are almost at an unrealistic level compared to the playing list we have. We barely had a team that was expected to finish top 4 once in the last three seasons when he took over let alone be strong enough to do that three years in a row. Only very very good playing lists manage to stay up the top for three years in a row. Other teams are capable of finishing top 4 here and there when things fall into place (Port and Kangaroos this year are an example) but they won't do it consistently. That's probably where our list sits, mainly due to a forward line that gets by on structure rather than talent.

People can be quick to write off coaches after a bad season, but remember where Geelong were this time last year, and the year before that. I mean, for the bad year we had we still made the finals. Let's see what happens over the next two years.

Excellent Post ....captured the argument perfectly

Have we a great list ....no

We need to get the list better with some tier 1 players .....pretty hard when your in the finals every year.

Injuries a huge factor this year.

Please everyone look at the last couple of games ......pretty much the forward line (KP) in the first half of the season was playing defence .....that's great (not) for getting a team combination together for a final assault

 

[Pride of SA]

How do you then explain the discord among the players and how do you explain Ricciuto's comments and how do you explain what I heard from the horse's mouth? Sure these things sometimes escalate when there hasn't been a great year, but it's not only the supporters who are making these noises.

I`m sure Ricciuto is right to some level, and maybe Craig does take too much of a 'sports scientist' approach to drilling and training, but I for one would like to see what a coach who has gotten our unfancied-list to top 2 twice and still made the finals this year after losing a staggering 200 combined games from injury can do next year with some luck from the karma Gods before I write him off.

Port were 4 kicks away from missing the top8 altogether. meet a crippled WCE side and a hopeless Roos outfit and they make a GF. Crows got shat on at every stage from the luck police and still made the finals. Only need a slight difference in luck and we are back in the game. Sure some tough decisions need to be made, and someone in the coaches box needs to slap NC silly when the obvious moves are there to be made if he doesnt listen, but its hardly crisis time.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

How do you then explain the discord among the players and how do you explain Ricciuto's comments and how do you explain what I heard from the horse's mouth? Sure these things sometimes escalate when there hasn't been a great year, but it's not only the supporters who are making these noises.

Evidence?

And is Roo a master coach? .......hell I though he was a player .....but maybe his judgement on coaching carries more weight that the AFC footy dept

 

[Crow Envy]

I think we need to see more than just one bad season, and let's face it, it wasn't a disastrous season, but an inconsistent one, before we conclude that Craig has lost his ability to have us playing at the top of our game. This season we beat Grand Finalists Port twice, beat the Preliminary Finalist Kangaroos the only time we played them, and split the two games against Collingwood. To summarise, only Geelong of the four preliminary finalists had our measure, and they had everone's measure. Yes, we lost games we should have won against lower teams, and there were serious issues with inconsistency this season, and a fairly bad injury list must be considered.

I think Neil Craig is now becoming somewhat a victim of his own success. The expectations have risen sharply due to good results over the last few years and are almost at an unrealistic level compared to the playing list we have. We barely had a team that was expected to finish top 4 once in the last three seasons when he took over let alone be strong enough to do that three years in a row. Only very very good playing lists manage to stay up the top for three years in a row. Other teams are capable of finishing top 4 here and there when things fall into place (Port and Kangaroos this year are an example) but they won't do it consistently. That's probably where our list sits, mainly due to a forward line that gets by on structure rather than talent.

People can be quick to write off coaches after a bad season, but remember where Geelong were this time last year, and the year before that. I mean, for the bad year we had we still made the finals. Let's see what happens over the next two years.

We arent giving Craig the flick after a bad season but we are saying he better change his stubborn ways because it is going to cost him his position, like it did Ayres. He wouldnt want to repeat similar mistakes to the Massie/Franklin/Riewoldt match ups too often.