Irish recruits

[Sailor]

Hi guys
I have to confess I have no idea about conditions surrounding Irish recruits.
What is the go?
Are they selected outside of the draft?
Do they take a spot on our list or are they additional?
Are there any worthwhile players around? I would have thought so given the hiding they gave our guys recently.
Should we be in it? We haven't had anything from the South African experiment when I thought their natural athleticism would have seen them adapt to our game easily.

 

[yakka man]

I don't think it's a bad idea to look at Irish recruits. Most of the Irish recruits are more natural kickers of the footy than players who have played footy their whole lives. From recent reports it seems we are keen one one player in particular. Sean Hurley is his name. He has met with the club already I think. He's a big bloke at 194cm's.

As long as expectations are tempered it's a low risk/high reward enterprise.

 

[Rob]

This should answer your technical questions:

http://www.afl.com.au/afl-hq/the-afl-explained/rookie-players

If that's tl;dr then every club has 3 spots on it's rookie list for 'Category B' players, and they don't reduce the number of 'Category A' players you can have (6). I assume we currently have 1 - Moller - as a former NSW scholarship player. You can have a maximum of 1 Irish player as a Cat B rookie, and you can simply sign them up outside the draft.

Not sure why we haven't recruited from overseas given they don't take up a spot on the list, and money clearly isn't a problem. Hell, even bloody North have an American on their list. Nothing to lose.

 

[yakka man]

This should answer your technical questions:

http://www.afl.com.au/afl-hq/the-afl-explained/rookie-players

If that's tl;dr then every club has 3 spots on it's rookie list for 'Category B' players, and they don't reduce the number of 'Category A' players you can have (6). I assume we currently have 1 - Moller - as a former NSW scholarship player. You can have a maximum of 1 Irish player as a Cat B rookie, and you can simply sign them up outside the draft.

Not sure why we haven't recruited from overseas given they don't take up a spot on the list, and money clearly isn't a problem. Hell, even bloody North have an American on their list. Nothing to lose.

North have two international players Daw and an American basketballer. Port just signed Iris player Daniel Flynn. Even the poorer clubs are signing these players. Although it does appear that we are on the lookout for a Irish player.

 

[Freo Big Fella]

Don't we have some money tied up over in South Africa? Maybe we're biding our time to see if that pays off.

 

[Rob]

North have two international players Daw and an American basketballer. Port just signed Iris player Daniel Flynn. Even the poorer clubs are signing these players. Although it does appear that we are on the lookout for a Irish player.

Daw wasn't an international player. He was recruited from suburban Melbourne onto the standard rookie list, and promoted from there.

 

[Leatherpoizoned]

Majak Daw is from Werribee.

 

[fabulousphil]

Considering the huge UK expat, South African and Kiwi communities in Perth i would be looking at athletes from those countries, and building links.

There is a bloody lot of clubs in the UK now http://www.aflgb.com/main.php?action=clubs, and in London 3 divisions i believe, reckon there may be a footballer or 2 worth a international Rookie list.

The beauty of WA football at present is our 2 AFL clubs have not yet had to look outside the square, because so much talent is already here.

However if we had 3 AFL teams in WA we may have to look outside ........

And i am suprised that some South Africans have not been drafted as yet.

 

[Quokka]

I'm wondering how long it'll be before a rookie goes the other way, I'm not sure what the actual rules are for county representation sooner or later they'll probably be an aussie kid or two who just miss out on being drafted or drop off a list and like the idea of maybe studying at Trinity and playing for the Dubs .

 

[mightymouse75]

S Africa was looking good (we were playing games in the pre season, had sponsorship there, loomed as a future recruiting zone, then Collingwood pushed us to the side, stole are pre season game, then the afl pulled out all together.

 

[Silent Alarm]

Most of the Irish recruits are more natural kickers of the footy than players who have played footy their whole lives.

Ahhhhhhhhhhh what? I think you back up the Irish Experiment in a few ways and I could buy those claims, even if I reckon international drafting is a waste of time. But natural kicks? Are you serious? They all hold it awkwardly and have a slight hook to their kick, which is normal considering they all grew up with round balls. They give off hands a bit weirdly and the little things, like the way they scoop up and hold the footy, is far from natural. Because it simply isn't. It defies the meaning of the word natural.

Go on about their height, athleticism, and those abilities... but kicking? No way.

All of this international player malarky is just a waste. Lachie Neale is short, Menegola is tall, fast, and astoundingly fit. Athletes still don't make better footballers. Footballers to athletes, not the other way around.

 

[Rob]

S Africa was looking good (we were playing games in the pre season, had sponsorship there, loomed as a future recruiting zone, then Collingwood pushed us to the side, stole are pre season game, then the afl pulled out all together.

What do you mean 'the afl pulled out'? I understood we had a zone - North West Province. It was going to be up to us how much we wanted to allocate to development. Haven't heard anything since.

 

[Righteo]

Majak Daw is from Werribee.

I must admit I had a bit of a shock when I first heard him speak, for someone who has only been here since he was 12 he has a ridiculously ocker accent. I know African/Sudanese immigrants who arrived here at a similar age and still have noticeable African accents.

On topic, I'd also like to know what's happening with our SA development program. Always seemed an exciting potential talent pool.

Ahhhhhhhhhhh what? I think you back up the Irish Experiment in a few ways and I could buy those claims, even if I reckon international drafting is a waste of time. But natural kicks? Are you serious? They all hold it awkwardly and have a slight hook to their kick, which is normal considering they all grew up with round balls. They give off hands a bit weirdly and the little things, like the way they scoop up and hold the footy, is far from natural. Because it simply isn't. It defies the meaning of the word natural.

Go on about their height, athleticism, and those abilities... but kicking? No way.

All of this international player malarky is just a waste. Lachie Neale is short, Menegola is tall, fast, and astoundingly fit. Athletes still don't make better footballers. Footballers to athletes, not the other way around.

Agree, there are of course exceptions like Tuohy and Hanley who are impressive field kicks but to say "most" of them are better kicks than Aussie grown players is an absurd statement.

I wouldn't pull them up on their "slight hooks" though considering it's something that affects every player, even if only slightly.

 

[Seppo]

I must admit I had a bit of a shock when I first heard him speak, for someone who has only been here since he was 12 he has a ridiculously ocker accent. I know African/Sudanese immigrants who arrived here at a similar age and still have noticeable African accents.

On topic, I'd also like to know what's happening with our SA development program. Always seemed an exciting potential talent pool.



Agree, there are of course exceptions like Tuohy and Hanley who are impressive field kicks but to say "most" of them are better kicks than Aussie grown players is an absurd statement.

I wouldn't pull them up on their "slight hooks" though considering it's something that affects every player, even if only slightly.

As i grew up playing round ball, i found it difficult in learning to keep your leg straight with the follow through kicking a footy. It's just instinct to hook your leg across for kids that have grown up playing soccer, i guess it might be less for the Irish who play gaelic who have the ball in hand rather than kicking off the floor like from a goal/free kick or even a corner.

Anyone here studied the mechanics of the ideal 'kick' in each sport? Would make for some fascinating reading. Epsecially what techniques works across different codes/balls.

 

[go_the_dockers]

As i grew up playing round ball, i found it difficult in learning to keep your leg straight with the follow through kicking a footy. It's just instinct to hook your leg across for kids that have grown up playing soccer, i guess it might be less for the Irish who play gaelic who have the ball in hand rather than kicking off the floor like from a goal/free kick or even a corner.

Anyone here studied the mechanics of the ideal 'kick' in each sport? Would make for some fascinating reading. Epsecially what techniques works across different codes/balls.

I would imagine the Irish would have the same issue, but what occurs when they come over here is they learn how to kick again (from scratch).

By learning from scratch how to do everything probably, they end up with great kicking actions with out any issue. If only you had your own coach to teach you how to kick the football, you can have been an AFL players after all

 

[Righteo]

As i grew up playing round ball, i found it difficult in learning to keep your leg straight with the follow through kicking a footy. It's just instinct to hook your leg across for kids that have grown up playing soccer, i guess it might be less for the Irish who play gaelic who have the ball in hand rather than kicking off the floor like from a goal/free kick or even a corner.

Anyone here studied the mechanics of the ideal 'kick' in each sport? Would make for some fascinating reading. Epsecially what techniques works across different codes/balls.

Well as long as they don't learn how to kick from a lefty, we all seem to have a more pronounced hook than "normies" and I've always been interested in why that is.

 

[Seppo]

Interesting points about the basic mechanics of kicking here:
http://www.aflcommunityclub.com.au/index.php?id=424

 

[Silent Alarm]

As i grew up playing round ball, i found it difficult in learning to keep your leg straight with the follow through kicking a footy. It's just instinct to hook your leg across for kids that have grown up playing soccer, i guess it might be less for the Irish who play gaelic who have the ball in hand rather than kicking off the floor like from a goal/free kick or even a corner.

Anyone here studied the mechanics of the ideal 'kick' in each sport? Would make for some fascinating reading. Epsecially what techniques works across different codes/balls.

Growing up playing footy and soccer, sometimes in the same day, I always thought they were both simple games were the 'reading' skills easily translated over. It's all about finding the right options, getting into space, and backing yourself a bit. If you grow up being able to drop punt and kick a soccer ball equally as well, there's no issue in being equally good in both.

The thing is, footy/soccer have a binary relationship. Culturally and environmentally they just never computed. If they were more harmonious, I reckon you'd get way more kids umm-ing and arr-ing over footy and soccer than we see with cricket and footy.

 

[UFO Tatsu]

Interesting points about the basic mechanics of kicking here:
http://www.aflcommunityclub.com.au/index.php?id=424

on that front, hows your football journey going along?

 

[Rob]

The thing is, footy/soccer have a binary relationship. Culturally and environmentally they just never computed. If they were more harmonious, I reckon you'd get way more kids umm-ing and arr-ing over footy and soccer than we see with cricket and footy.

That's just a seasonal thing. Soccer is a winter sport (other than the A-League), and there wouldn't be many kids that at 15 or 16 are playing both sports, and those that are are almost certainly not doing it at a high level - they wouldn't have the time. Footy and cricket can easily be played at the same time given they're played during different seasons. No reason why a kid couldn't play state footy and state cricket if they're good enough.

 

[Silent Alarm]

That's just a seasonal thing. Soccer is a winter sport (other than the A-League), and there wouldn't be many kids that at 15 or 16 are playing both sports, and those that are are almost certainly not doing it at a high level - they wouldn't have the time. Footy and cricket can easily be played at the same time given they're played during different seasons. No reason why a kid couldn't play state footy and state cricket if they're good enough.

Definitely, that's what I was trying to say with 'environmental.' Both are winter sports.

However, without going into the history of immigration in Australia, there's still a "soccer is for ****" stigma. It happened at school and if you were one of the few blokes to do both, you genuinely felt torn sometimes. Of course you'd have to be narrow minded to think that way, it does epitomise this soccer/footy dichotomy. It really exists, regardless of seasons.

 

[yakka man]

Ahhhhhhhhhhh what? I think you back up the Irish Experiment in a few ways and I could buy those claims, even if I reckon international drafting is a waste of time. But natural kicks? Are you serious? They all hold it awkwardly and have a slight hook to their kick, which is normal considering they all grew up with round balls. They give off hands a bit weirdly and the little things, like the way they scoop up and hold the footy, is far from natural. Because it simply isn't. It defies the meaning of the word natural.

Go on about their height, athleticism, and those abilities... but kicking? No way.

All of this international player malarky is just a waste. Lachie Neale is short, Menegola is tall, fast, and astoundingly fit. Athletes still don't make better footballers. Footballers to athletes, not the other way around.

Agree, there are of course exceptions like Tuohy and Hanley who are impressive field kicks but to say "most" of them are better kicks than Aussie grown players is an absurd statement.

I wouldn't pull them up on their "slight hooks" though considering it's something that affects every player, even if only slightly.

Because of the limited number of Irish recruits Tuohy and Hanley represent a huge percentage of the total. Don't forget that Marty Clarke is a good kick and Caolan Mooney is a natural left footer too. There are a lot of AFL players currently plus ones who have been delisted who struggle to kick accurately. Picking up a committed, skilled Irishman outside the senior list could be worth a shot.

You seem to be forgetting the huge amount of footballers who are delisted because their kicking skills aren't good. Players who have played the game their whole lives. Eg Lower, Jay Van Berlo and countless others. And yet a decent percentage of Irish recruits survive the cut-throat AFL environment and even thrive. My statement was light-hearted but the Irish experiment is still a low risk/high reward enterprise.

 

[Rob]

Definitely, that's what I was trying to say with 'environmental.' Both are winter sports.

However, without going into the history of immigration in Australia, there's still a "soccer is for ****" stigma. It happened at school and if you were one of the few blokes to do both, you genuinely felt torn sometimes. Of course you'd have to be narrow minded to think that way, it does epitomise this soccer/footy dichotomy. It really exists, regardless of seasons.

I have to admit, I never really encountered it. There was definitely a concept that soccer was the dumping ground for unco kids (maybe it still is) - the kids that played soccer when I was young were generally the kids that couldn't do anything else. But I don't really remember a stigma about it at the time. I certainly don't remember anyone copping any shit about it.

 

[Seppo]

on that front, hows your football journey going along?

I've resorted to an odd kick down and the park but will be saving everything up for our annual grudge match against the East Coast Egirls.

 

[fabulousphil]

Ahhhhhhhhhhh what? I think you back up the Irish Experiment in a few ways and I could buy those claims, even if I reckon international drafting is a waste of time. But natural kicks? Are you serious? They all hold it awkwardly and have a slight hook to their kick, which is normal considering they all grew up with round balls. They give off hands a bit weirdly and the little things, like the way they scoop up and hold the footy, is far from natural. Because it simply isn't. It defies the meaning of the word natural.

Go on about their height, athleticism, and those abilities... but kicking? No way.

All of this international player malarky is just a waste. Lachie Neale is short, Menegola is tall, fast, and astoundingly fit. Athletes still don't make better footballers. Footballers to athletes, not the other way around.

Disagree about international players, Touhy is just a natural footballer IMO, and quite a few others, have made indelible marks on on game (Stynes etc )

But the bolded bit is where i really wanted to make a point, if you mean handballs, i noted that a few really old videos of football games (1910/20 etc ) have players giving off handballs similar to the Irish, in fact i cant even really exoplain how they do it, but it just looks a bit different.