Irish unhappy with aussies stealing their players

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TigerCraig said:
The only way it could work is similar to say cricket - where most club players are amateur, but the top players get paid while on duty at higher levels.

For example, Brett Lee plays for Mosman. Most of his team mates are amateur, but he gets paid for playing for NSW and Australia.

The downside of course, which would really rattle the GAA structure if a similar structure was used there, is the number of club games that the top players are available for. If Lee played for Mosman twice a season they would be lucky.

My understanding is that in GAA (unlike cricket or rugby) while the intercounty games generate the money, the real passion is for the club.
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Ah it depends on the player himself and the clubs situation to be honest. If you play for a club which has won your county championship loads of times and you've won it a few times with them yourself then its going to mean a lot less to you then for a club that hasn't won it in 40 years so that player might prefer winning with the county over the club. You know what i mean.

Personally i'd much more cherish winning something with my club then my county winning the All-Ireland.

It depends on the supporters too. A lot of people wouldn't have gone to see their club play in years but still would go to see their county play. Sunshine supporters u know .....

Your mostly right though, the majority of people would much prefer to see the club do well then the county. The club is much more personal to you and if you can beat the "feckers down the road" it'll give you bragging rights for a while :D
 

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Perhaps they should start paying their players a few dollars.

I envy the romanticism of the parochial tribal Gaelic code, but it kinda seems a bit unfair on the players at times.

Also when a player is just not good enough to play for his county, but is culturally forbidden from changing teams.

I think secretly some Irish take pride in the players in Australia. I have family there.
 
Luv_our_club said:
Perhaps they should start paying their players a few dollars.

I envy the romanticism of the parochial tribal Gaelic code, but it kinda seems a bit unfair on the players at times.

Also when a player is just not good enough to play for his county, but is culturally forbidden from changing teams.

I think secretly some Irish take pride in the players in Australia. I have family there.
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The thing is, as you alluded to, it’s an entirely different culture. It’s not that players are forbidden from changing clubs or counties, it’s that the vast, vast majority of GAA players would prefer to line out with their club/county and many make great financial sacrifices to do so.

My parish in the west of Ireland, for instance, is a rural club, and our area has suffered from mass emigration for decades. At times we’ve struggled to field teams at underage level due to the small population. Despite that, a lot of players who live overseas would return home for the summer to play in the championship for sheer love of the game. Your club is an extension of your family- you play with the same lads you went to primary and secondary school with, and plenty of people who never played a senior game will still hold positions in the club (even something as small as selling lottery tickets for the club on a Friday night in the local bars). It’s a way of life, and even with social changes in the past decade Ireland is a family oriented society where parish and community count for a lot, especially in the rural areas. Even for less successful counties, the possibility of one day winning a provincial title is sufficient incentive for many quality players to maintain their involvement with the county panel- for instance Eamon O’Hara has a good claim to be the greatest ever player for county Sligo and when he won a provincial title in 2007 it was just as sweet for him as winning an All-Ireland, ditto for Westmeath in 2004 and Roscommon in 2017.

On the other hand, good county players will earn financial rewards either through sponsorship or leveraging their reputation in GAA related businesses (eg the Canning family from Portumna, who have contributed several hurlers to the Galway county panel down the years run their own hurl manufacturing business, while many county players earn freebies like vehicles or white goods through sponsorship deals). Adding professionalism to that mix would further stack the dice against weaker counties as most don’t have the economic or demographic resources to compete with larger counties. All in all the amateur ethos is better suited to the code at present.

Presently interest in AFL is very much a fringe pursuit for some players in footballing counties and with the exception of Jimmy Stynes, Tadhg Kenneally and Tommy Walsh, most export players have either been from weaker counties (like Marty Clarke & Zach Tuohy) or not highly rated by their county selectors a la Pearce Hanley. As a hurler Setanta O’Hailpin was an outlier and he would have been far better served remaining with the Cork hurling team imo, he was a sensational player.
 
donkeypunchd said:
The thing is, as you alluded to, it’s an entirely different culture. It’s not that players are forbidden from changing clubs or counties, it’s that the vast, vast majority of GAA players would prefer to line out with their club/county and many make great financial sacrifices to do so.

My parish in the west of Ireland, for instance, is a rural club, and our area has suffered from mass emigration for decades. At times we’ve struggled to field teams at underage level due to the small population. Despite that, a lot of players who live overseas would return home for the summer to play in the championship for sheer love of the game. Your club is an extension of your family- you play with the same lads you went to primary and secondary school with, and plenty of people who never played a senior game will still hold positions in the club (even something as small as selling lottery tickets for the club on a Friday night in the local bars). It’s a way of life, and even with social changes in the past decade Ireland is a family oriented society where parish and community count for a lot, especially in the rural areas. Even for less successful counties, the possibility of one day winning a provincial title is sufficient incentive for many quality players to maintain their involvement with the county panel- for instance Eamon O’Hara has a good claim to be the greatest ever player for county Sligo and when he won a provincial title in 2007 it was just as sweet for him as winning an All-Ireland, ditto for Westmeath in 2004 and Roscommon in 2017.

On the other hand, good county players will earn financial rewards either through sponsorship or leveraging their reputation in GAA related businesses (eg the Canning family from Portumna, who have contributed several hurlers to the Galway county panel down the years run their own hurl manufacturing business, while many county players earn freebies like vehicles or white goods through sponsorship deals). Adding professionalism to that mix would further stack the dice against weaker counties as most don’t have the economic or demographic resources to compete with larger counties. All in all the amateur ethos is better suited to the code at present.

Presently interest in AFL is very much a fringe pursuit for some players in footballing counties and with the exception of Jimmy Stynes, Tadhg Kenneally and Tommy Walsh, most export players have either been from weaker counties (like Marty Clarke & Zach Tuohy) or not highly rated by their county selectors a la Pearce Hanley. As a hurler Setanta O’Hailpin was an outlier and he would have been far better served remaining with the Cork hurling team imo, he was a sensational player.
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It's also a fringe area for AFL clubs now days, Gaelic football isn't as high on the catB agenda as it used to be, AFL clubs have learnt not to bother taking anyone of KPP size, no matter how athletically gifted they just don't cut the mustard, pacy HB types are all AFL clubs are looking for out of Ireland now days, and TBH, i'd prefer to go for American talent in the hope of another Mason Cox.
 
donkeypunchd said:
The thing is, as you alluded to, it’s an entirely different culture. It’s not that players are forbidden from changing clubs or counties, it’s that the vast, vast majority of GAA players would prefer to line out with their club/county and many make great financial sacrifices to do so.

My parish in the west of Ireland, for instance, is a rural club, and our area has suffered from mass emigration for decades. At times we’ve struggled to field teams at underage level due to the small population. Despite that, a lot of players who live overseas would return home for the summer to play in the championship for sheer love of the game. Your club is an extension of your family- you play with the same lads you went to primary and secondary school with, and plenty of people who never played a senior game will still hold positions in the club (even something as small as selling lottery tickets for the club on a Friday night in the local bars). It’s a way of life, and even with social changes in the past decade Ireland is a family oriented society where parish and community count for a lot, especially in the rural areas. Even for less successful counties, the possibility of one day winning a provincial title is sufficient incentive for many quality players to maintain their involvement with the county panel- for instance Eamon O’Hara has a good claim to be the greatest ever player for county Sligo and when he won a provincial title in 2007 it was just as sweet for him as winning an All-Ireland, ditto for Westmeath in 2004 and Roscommon in 2017.

On the other hand, good county players will earn financial rewards either through sponsorship or leveraging their reputation in GAA related businesses (eg the Canning family from Portumna, who have contributed several hurlers to the Galway county panel down the years run their own hurl manufacturing business, while many county players earn freebies like vehicles or white goods through sponsorship deals). Adding professionalism to that mix would further stack the dice against weaker counties as most don’t have the economic or demographic resources to compete with larger counties. All in all the amateur ethos is better suited to the code at present.

Presently interest in AFL is very much a fringe pursuit for some players in footballing counties and with the exception of Jimmy Stynes, Tadhg Kenneally and Tommy Walsh, most export players have either been from weaker counties (like Marty Clarke & Zach Tuohy) or not highly rated by their county selectors a la Pearce Hanley. As a hurler Setanta O’Hailpin was an outlier and he would have been far better served remaining with the Cork hurling team imo, he was a sensational player.
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I don't know what happened to Setanta when/if he returned home after AFL. There is the attraction in that the amateur code is there waiting for players who don't reach the grade here and they can go home and play there.

Conor Nash for Hawthorn played a game (of rugby or Gaelic) during the 2017 off season in Ireland, not telling the club.

My family is from Thurles, Tipperary, a hurling county.
 
Luv_our_club said:
I don't know what happened to Setanta when/if he returned home after AFL. There is the attraction in that the amateur code is there waiting for players who don't reach the grade here and they can go home and play there.

Conor Nash for Hawthorn played a game (of rugby or Gaelic) during the 2017 off season in Ireland, not telling the club.

My family is from Thurles, Tipperary, a hurling county.
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Setanta made a bad choice in heading to Carlton when he did, Cork won two All-Irelands in 2004-2005 after he left, and his brother Seán Óg was an all-star in both the campaigns (and player of the year in 2004). Setanta was a more naturally gifted hurler and I’ve no doubt Cork would have continued to challenge past 2005 if he was in their forward line. I think he moved to Hawaii once GWS delisted him. Nash is an interesting case as he comes from a (currently, though not historically) weaker county, Meath. Right now they have no chance of winning honours at either provincial or All-Ireland level due to Dublin’s dominance of the Leinster championship and national competitions. I think he went back and played for his club in the county championship?

As for Thurles, take my recommendation and go back in the summer some time to watch the Munster Final live. There’s nothing quite like Thurles town on Munster Final day, and the match itself is always the highlight of the hurling championship after the all-Ireland Final.
 

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donkeypunchd said:
Setanta made a bad choice in heading to Carlton when he did, Cork won two All-Irelands in 2004-2005 after he left, and his brother Seán Óg was an all-star in both the campaigns (and player of the year in 2004). Setanta was a more naturally gifted hurler and I’ve no doubt Cork would have continued to challenge past 2005 if he was in their forward line. I think he moved to Hawaii once GWS delisted him. Nash is an interesting case as he comes from a (currently, though not historically) weaker county, Meath. Right now they have no chance of winning honours at either provincial or All-Ireland level due to Dublin’s dominance of the Leinster championship and national competitions. I think he went back and played for his club in the county championship?

As for Thurles, take my recommendation and go back in the summer some time to watch the Munster Final live. There’s nothing quite like Thurles town on Munster Final day, and the match itself is always the highlight of the hurling championship after the all-Ireland Final.
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This might interest you.

 
donkeypunchd said:
Setanta made a bad choice in heading to Carlton when he did, Cork won two All-Irelands in 2004-2005 after he left, and his brother Seán Óg was an all-star in both the campaigns (and player of the year in 2004). Setanta was a more naturally gifted hurler and I’ve no doubt Cork would have continued to challenge past 2005 if he was in their forward line. I think he moved to Hawaii once GWS delisted him. Nash is an interesting case as he comes from a (currently, though not historically) weaker county, Meath. Right now they have no chance of winning honours at either provincial or All-Ireland level due to Dublin’s dominance of the Leinster championship and national competitions. I think he went back and played for his club in the county championship?

As for Thurles, take my recommendation and go back in the summer some time to watch the Munster Final live. There’s nothing quite like Thurles town on Munster Final day, and the match itself is always the highlight of the hurling championship after the all-Ireland Final.
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Setanta was a thug, nothing more, (wasn't even good at that unless he could kick a helpless team mate in the face whilst laying on the ground) one of the bigger pieces of s**t to ever don an AFL jumper.
 
Frank Gallagher said:
Setanta was a thug, nothing more, (wasn't even good at that unless he could kick a helpless team mate in the face whilst laying on the ground) one of the bigger pieces of s**t to ever don an AFL jumper.
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Swung his boot in his arse
 
I met several friends of mark O'Connor (Geelong) at his local pub in Dingle (Kerry) a month or so ago. Dingle is a small fishing village on a peninsula- I was initially baffled to see cats scarves in a couple of pubs. When in another pub I spotted a cats jumper behind glass I asked the barman about it.
"This is Mark O'Connor's local." This started a general conversation of those sitting at the bar- his mates were certainly disappointed that such a highly rated GAA youngster had been lost to the county, but they all agreed "the money is a real opportunity."
One bloke didn't say much and I assumed he was somewhat pissed off- they also made the point he "wasn't even playing in the first team," but for a first year player he did actually make his debut.
He's played a couple more now, and re-signed as well.
Great country Ireland.
 
GhostofJimJess said:
There was a thread on this very topic here the other where a bunch of ideas got tossed around, so apologies if I repeat myself. Doesn't look like too many posters on this thread were on the other anyway.

I follow GAA very closely - I'll be at Croker on Sunday for the Limerick/Waterford hurling semi final and with any luck at the All-Ireland football final in a few weeks time. Not with the same ingrained fervour that I follow Richmond, but it's not difficult to imagine it being that way for Cork or Limerick if I was to have been reared in these places. Hurling in particular is a truly sensational sport that many AFL fans would take too in a hurry if for some reason they were deprived of their own code of footy. Like me.

I honestly don't understand the hostility toward the "amateurism" of the Irish code. It reflects a distinct lack of understanding of Irish culture and almost a xenophobism on behalf those displaying such a misguided animosity. It also reveals a lack of appreciation for the passion in which the Irish represent their respective counties. Far more loyalty than we are used to in our AFL, where players change teams voluntarily and regularly. If our AFL players didn't have the gall to insult our intelligence with "how important the club" is to them I guess that it would be a little more tolerable. But so many great AFL/VFL players in my lifetime has changed "allegiances" at one time or another - Carey, Ablett, Buckley, Brown, Williams, Lockett, Hawkins, Dempsey, Quinlan etc - usually for cash, sometimes under the guise of "further opportunity", or some such.

Or how quickly and mercilessly some of these players are traded on the meat market to the enemy for a handful of gold coins when the opportunity arises. Thankfully the AFL's not quite at the level of European soccer in this respect, but it's far closer to that concept than it is to the loyalty to it's own that it often contends to embrace.

What many fail to appreciate also is the concept of territorial allegiance. With the AFL clubs, especially Victorian clubs, purposefully moving away from any representation of locality, and instead nowadays seemingly representative of an arbitrary name (eg. what proportion of people living in Richmond actually show an allegiance to this football club, and vice versa?), it has now has had removed a lot that innate passion associated with the defending the tribal land. At least country football still purports to represent a town, even if most country footballers would up and leave at the merest hint of double wages over at their previous sworn enemy. But if you were born and bred in Tipperary and then cross the county border and turn out for Kilkenny, don't bother stepping foot in Tipp again, or at least bring a good disguise.

That said, the Irish supporters are not as embittered as us Aussie Rules addicts. Sure they love a good whinge, and they can be pretty hypocritical at times when defending their own team. Like us really. But they very rarely seek to bunk up their own side by means of demeaning other teams, like what goes on here in AFL territory on a daily basis. 'Trolling' is a literally a foreign concept. Sure they'd all have an opinion if a Ben Cousins or Alan Didak issue reared in their sport, and it would be the talk over the bar and undoubtedly talkback radio too for the day. But there certainly wouldn't be that unbridled anger, bitterness and childishness that tends to go on with us. The Irish tend to view such matters with far more rationality and pragmatism.

By all means, however, question the GAA on why they do not instigate suitable financial recompense to the their players. I certainly do. I also regularly question where the huge financial intake of their organisation actually goes. Last weekend alone they'd have taken probably €10M (~$16M Aus) in gate takings, not to mention sponsorship, corporate, TV rights, merchandise, advertising, catering etc. And yet our local GAA facilities are archaic, and we still have us volunteer dads doing all of the organising and officiating at junior matches.
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Always been intigued but never had a look

Wow what a game

Sorta aussie rules meets hockey

 
donkeypunchd said:
Setanta made a bad choice in heading to Carlton when he did, Cork won two All-Irelands in 2004-2005 after he left, and his brother Seán Óg was an all-star in both the campaigns (and player of the year in 2004). Setanta was a more naturally gifted hurler and I’ve no doubt Cork would have continued to challenge past 2005 if he was in their forward line. I think he moved to Hawaii once GWS delisted him. Nash is an interesting case as he comes from a (currently, though not historically) weaker county, Meath. Right now they have no chance of winning honours at either provincial or All-Ireland level due to Dublin’s dominance of the Leinster championship and national competitions. I think he went back and played for his club in the county championship?

As for Thurles, take my recommendation and go back in the summer some time to watch the Munster Final live. There’s nothing quite like Thurles town on Munster Final day, and the match itself is always the highlight of the hurling championship after the all-Ireland Final.
Click to expand...

Did you ever have much info on Conor Glass? There was a Hawks podcast where they were talking about the kid and apparently he was an absolute Gaelic prodigy before we poached him.
 
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