Is Adelaide Oval too small?

[DangerSloane]

Just correcting your presumption that we don't have an 11 game members waiting list.

I'm not interested in turning it into a dick measuring contest.

Neither, just saying, its a fact that you have less allocation for 11 game members, which is one of the reasons why its easier as a casual fan to get to port games. I've actually been to as many port games as crows games since the stadium switch (Mainly because some of my besties are port fans, but also because I struggled to get tickets to the odd crows game over the last couple of years).

 

[RonSon]

Neither, just saying, its a fact that you have less allocation for 11 game members, which is one of the reasons why its easier as a casual fan to get to port games. I've actually been to as many port games as crows games since the stadium switch (Mainly because some of my besties are port fans, but also because I struggled to get tickets to the odd crows game over the last couple of years).

Yep, and the club has said it prefers to structure it's memberships this way for exactly that reason. More chance to grow support when non members can more easily get to a few games a year and cuts down on the number of no-shows from 11 game ticket holders. I've also read the way we structure those memberships means we can fit more people into the ground by overselling walk up tickets, hence we have most of the attendance records.

 

[DangerSloane]

Yep, and the club has said it prefers to structure it's memberships this way for exactly that reason. More chance to grow support when non members can more easily get to a few games a year and cuts down on the number of no-shows from 11 game ticket holders. I've also read the way we structure those memberships means we can fit more people into the ground by overselling walk up tickets, hence we have most of the attendance records.

Yeah understood. Its all about the balance.
This article was interesting: http://www.informedesign.org/_news/jun_v04r-p.pdf

Just about stadium design trends over time.

Looking at the Perth stadium, people are thinking that capacity is also too low.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Port has cracked 50k members today. Crows not far behind.

At what stage does Adelaide Oval become too small?

When you have 10+ years ie over 200 consecutive games of sell outs AND lock outs for both clubs.

A good mate is a Steelers fan and over the years he has educated me about their fans and their sell out streak. It took Pittsburgh Steelers almost 30 years of sell outs before they got a new stadium and are still going with their sell outs in total, transferring its 28 year record of sell outs from Three Rivers Stadium to Heinz Field for another 8 years as quoted in wiki page below and add another 7 years. At 8 home games per year plus finals that's over 200 games before they started planning for a new one in 1998. The initial increase in capacity was 6,000+ seats and ended up being 10,000+ 15 years after first opening. See second link re sell outs post 2008

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Rivers_Stadium#Steelers
The Pittsburgh Steelers played their first game in Three Rivers Stadium on September 20, 1970—a 19–7 loss to the Houston Oilers.[28] Throughout their 31 seasons in Three Rivers Stadium, the Steelers posted a record of 182–72, including a 13-5 playoff record, and defeated every visiting franchise at least once from the stadium's opening to close, enjoying perfect records there against seven teams. The Steelers sold out every home game from 1972 through the closing of the stadium, a streak which continues through 2008.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Rivers_Stadium#Steelers
The Steelers sell out streak continues to at least October 2014 as per the article below, but what is happening is fans aren't showing up for Monday night games and some Sunday night games because of work. But they still have a 94.8% show up average which is low by NFL standards but they count who has gone thru the turnstiles, not like other clubs who count tickets sold and handed out as their official attendance. This sort of inconsistency happens in the Major League baseball with the American League counting attendance one way and the National League another way.

What is the average show up rate of crows and Port fans in comparison??

http://triblive.com/sports/-topstories/7019586-74/steelers-shows-games#axzz3udugud9l
Night games at Heinz Field haven't been good to the Steelers recently. Not with results, but with the attendance figure. The Steelers have sold out all 117 games played at Heinz Field since it opened in 2001, have a sellout streak dating to 1972 and have 20 years worth of names on its season ticket waiting list. And, more often than not, Heinz Field is filled to near-capacity every game.

But with night games, that's another story. Three of the past four Monday night home games — including two weeks ago against Houston — resulted in 9,125, 7,856 and 7,346 no-shows. The Steelers' most recent Sunday night game (Dec. 15, 2013 against the Bengals) was the lowest attended game in Heinz Field history with 19,627 no-shows. Their previous Thursday night home game (Dec 8, 2011 against the Browns) had 4,746 no-shows.

“It's a Monday and people have to work on a Tuesday. I understand,” veteran cornerback Ike Taylor said. “Everybody has to pay bills. Those 9,000 people who couldn't make it had some bills to pay.”
.....
The majority of the NFL organizations count tickets sold/distributed that leads to capacity numbers like 113 percent in Dallas and 107 percent in Green Bay. The Steelers use turnstile count to determine their attendance, putting them among the teams with most no-shows per game. The New York Giants are the only other team that announces turnstile numbers instead of tickets sold. “Somebody said to me that we get cheated because (we do turnstile count, not tickets sold),” Rooney said. “We've always done it that way. That's the way it's always been. It's matter of integrity.”

Next year, the Steelers will add approximately 3,000 seats to their 65,500-seat venue. The Steelers are filling Heinz Field to only 94.8 percent capacity this year, which rivals some of the worst attended venues. The Florida teams — Jacksonville (94.5), Miami (93.9) and Tampa Bay (91.0) — hover behind the Steelers, and two teams with historically poor attended venues — San Diego (88.8) and St. Louis (87.8) — bring up the rear. The Giants are at 95.4 percent capacity despite selling out every game since 1974.

The Steelers have averaged 1,500 to 2,500 no-shows per game from 2008-12. Last year, that number skyrocketed to 8,189 as the team endured a second consecutive 8-8 season. Through four games this season, the Steelers are averaging 3,922 no-shows.
.......

The Steelers no-shows over the past seven seasons
2014 3,922 per game*
2013 8,189
2012 2,466
2011 1,746
2010 1,967
2009 1,565
2008 2,160
* Through 4 games
http://triblive.com/sports/-topstories/7019586-74/steelers-shows-games#axzz3udugud9l

 

[*PAF]

I think a ground needs to be big enough for the members of that club and also at least a few thousand more so casual fans can also go to games. Right now I don't think Adelaide Oval is big enough for the casual fans, meaning it would be hard for Port Adelaide and Adelaide to turn casual fans into die hard fans.

That's a large part of the reasoning behind clubs having a cap on 11 game memberships.

EDIT: It becomes a bit of a balancing act, because if you make it too easy to get tickets and many would not bother getting a membership. Sell it out and you struggle to get new members.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

That's a large part of the reasoning behind clubs having a cap on 11 game memberships.

Port don't have a cap!

 

[DangerSloane]

That's a large part of the reasoning behind clubs having a cap on 11 game memberships.

Yeah exactly. I mean both port and crows have a waiting list for 11 game members...so if it was all about members they'd already have less people buying single games etc.

 

[DangerSloane]

Port don't have a cap!

They'd have to otherwise how is there a waiting list?

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

You have less allocation for 11 game members though.
So maybe you do have a waiting list, but its for less members.

No its not. You don't understand how we sell our inventory. Your club sells out most seats as 11 game reserved seats. We leave 7,000 seats as GA unreserved, so all our 3 gamers, country 5 gamers and interstate 1 home state game + 2 at AO can all sit in there. But we also we sell 11 game GA members who can sit there so we can sell that seat 2, or 3 or 4 times over, so out of those 7,000 seats we could actually sell 15,000 GA 11 gamers because we know that they all wont turn up for every game, and there will only be 2 or 3 games a year that there might be an actual lock out. Its no different to the MCC selling 100,000 memberships for its 22,000 seat reserve area during footy season and the AFL selling 56,000 AFL memberships for its 23,000 seat AFL members reserve at the MCG. They know not every member is going to turn up to every game. Port are applying the similar principle. So far there has probably only been 3 Port games that have been lock outs, even though many have technically been sell outs.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

They'd have to otherwise how is there a waiting list?

see my previous response.

 

[*PAF]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...s/news-story/50bab5124521e05e2751bdc531cfe0c0

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...s/news-story/50bab5124521e05e2751bdc531cfe0c0

Rucci ****ed that up. The gist of his article is correct but he got the numbers wrong. He makes it sound like 20,000 tickets are available for every Port game. For every Port game
- 3,000 SEATS must be left for the public to buy as per AFL rules at all grounds over 40,000.
- 3,500 standing tickets on the Hill are available for the public to buy
- 7,000 seats are allocated as GA unreserved seating so this is where Port's 11 home game GA members can sit, 3 gamers. Country 5 gamers and Interstate 1 home state game + 2 at AO are allowed to sit there. Opposition fans as well as the public can buy unreserved seats in that 7,000 but they are told to get there early as these seats are first come first served basis.

- the other unknown is how many guest passes are available to be purchased for the western stand which is about 60% unreserved seating and 40% reserved. It maybe a 70/30 split. AOSMA Football members are allowed to buy guest passes as are Port Essential members. But they have never published how many are allowed to be sold as they do restrict them for the expected sell out games.

 

[AdsGoNads]

The AO venture was never predicted to be such a success.
Now we know that most people just hated trudging their way to AAMI in the swamplands, and now can enjoy football in the city, its absolutely too small - there is no doubt both Adelaide + Port could push 80,000 members if the seating was available.

 

[SgtSchulz]

I like how the ovals largest crowds are the classic SANFL grand finals. Maintains the competitions historical status...and prevents the crows from ever having the record, let alone a top 10 spot.

 

[Papa G]

AO capacity is fine. Port have had 8 crowds below 40000 in the past 2 years and the Crows aged fan base will start dying off and their abominable marketing department and lack of success disminishes the chances of replacing them.

 

[Kwality]

AO capacity is fine. Port have had 8 crowds below 40000 in the past 2 years and the Crows aged fan base will start dying off and their abominable marketing department and lack of success disminishes the chances of replacing them.

G, don't Port fans die off at the same rate as Crows ....

 

[RUNVS]

G, don't Port fans die off at the same rate as Crows ....

There is a reason why Meth is not legal.

 

[Ian Dunross]

Said before, in 25 years they'll redo the western stand and increase capacity, jump it up to 60,000

That should be enough for another 20 years after that

 

[Papa G]

G, don't Port fans die off at the same rate as Crows ....

The average age of their members is 68.3 and has the highest proportion of people named Edna and Beryl anywhere in the world.

 

[Justinpa1]

Adelaide Oval is not foremost a cricket ground anymore.

Its a multi purpose venue as much as the MCG & Etihad stasium. For the past two seasons there has been around 1 Million people attend Footy games at the great stadium.

With an average for Port games at about 42,000 & Crows games at 45,000. The Strikers averaged 35,000 last season, two crowds 43K & 45K and the Semi final broke the all time Oval cricket record crowd, 52,633. The day night Test was an amazing success in Nov.

We got 27,611 to a Strikers game last night in 40 Degree heat (Adelaide's 5th day in a row over 38C)! & 30,000 people in Jan to a game that was washed out.

Adelaide Oval is the best thing that has happenedto our state in a long time and we should all be proud of it.

I think eventually they will expand the Western stand to make capacity 65,000 but the hill and scoreboard should and will stay.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

AO capacity is fine. Port have had 8 crowds below 40000 in the past 2 years and the Crows aged fan base will start dying off and their abominable marketing department and lack of success disminishes the chances of replacing them.

Don't believe notso is signing off on marketing anymore, so don't worry we will remain the dominant supporter base.

Btw, for rivalry I'm glad you finally started consistently turning up to games as much healthier for the state.

 

[JackFlash]

The incredible thing about Adelaide Oval and it's success is how "Football Park" has become a distant memory so quickly...

 

[JD Tomahawk]

I've travelled over from Vic for the last two years to see games and in my opinion the hill needs to go. I don't buy into historical significance all that much. It's a lump of dirt with grass on it, some nice looking trees and an old average looking scoreboard with a bit of charm about it. I'd fill the end in with a grandstand, Keep the scoreboard since it's so important to everyone. And plant some more trees. Pretty sure they will grow and one day be as old as the trees they replaced.
Didn't help when GA is packed to the S**thouse and crow supporters were being abusive to people who stood on their side. ' the bar side'

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

I've travelled over from Vic for the last two years to see games and in my opinion the hill needs to go. I don't buy into historical significance all that much. It's a lump of dirt with grass on it, some nice looking trees and an old average looking scoreboard with a bit of charm about it. I'd fill the end in with a grandstand, Keep the scoreboard since it's so important to everyone. And plant some more trees. Pretty sure they will grow and one day be as old as the trees they replaced.

Big deal if you reckon it should go. Saca members only approved of giving up their 80 year lease if the northern end stayed the way it was with minimial change as occured. It also is in the Adelaide Oval Redevelopment and Management Act 2011 that the northern end cant be changed. So during the lifetime of the current 80 year lease the minister has with the Adelaide City Council and 80 year sub lease he has with the SMA joint venture between the SANFL and SACA, there is more chance that there will be an Australian walk on the moon than the act be changed.

 

[Apsaalooke]

The average age of their members is 68.3 and has the highest proportion of people named Edna and Beryl anywhere in the world.

Thats because we have a higher life expectancy