Is it possible to fix an AFL game?

[Smokin]

US football, especially college, has history of fishy stuff going on in relation to betting.

Of course it is possible.

However, it's more than likely the bets which would be rigged would not be head to head bets, generally speaking.

In the US cases, it is the line/spread betting which can and has been manipulated, and can be here. For example, it wouldnt take much for a heavy AFL favourite, giving up say 30-40 points, to not cover and win by less than the line.

The team still wins, nobody is suspicious and players or coaches clean up.

I dont think it would be rife, as the weight of money needed to make this worthwhile would have to be pretty big, but its not impossible to fathom sydincates whereby multiple 5-10k bets get placed in all corners of the country, with countless books, both local, local-online and offshore.

Just to throw it out there, take Ward for example. He made 2 bets on Melbourne, and lost both of em interestingly.

'IF' he knew something, or had reason to believe Melbourne couldnt or wouldnt be winning a certain game, an option for him is to have a accomplice betting huge amounts on the other team, then Ward has placed smaller ammounts on Melbourne, just in case he is linked some how.

He may have taken this risk, knowing that a first time conviction by the AFL will probably lead to a fairly low penalty, and he was happen with the risk/reward scenario.

This is why the AFL must really act to bring huge punishments in to get rid of this now.

Fact is the biggest sportsbooks in the world are online and based in the carribean. The potential to become a big client with huge betting limits which dwarf the TAB is definitely there. They wont be divulging much to the AFL either. This isnt just an Australian TAB issue.

 

[campbell]

I am more worried about umpires betting on games.

The most suspicious looking game I have seen recently was the siren-gate game, where the Saints recieved 10/11 free's in the last part of the game before the siren fiasco,

Shocker that match.
Some matches you watch, you scratch your head at how a match turns, by obvious bad decisions.

 

[Asty]

With the betting scandal happening, do you think it is possible for some people to rig or fix an AFL game? I don't think so personally but it has happened in Soccer and Cricket in the past. I think AFL is one of the few sports around the world that is impossible to rig. What are your thoughts?

yes you can affect the result same as it is possible in other team sports. In footy I bet on the margin so you dont have to lose in order to affect betting as you can shave points. Backmen can give their opponents a free, forwards can kick a point instead of a goal and the midfield can "accidentally" turn the ball over. It only takes a couple of "mistakes" like that to change the result by 10points.

 

[Truetiger]

Ask the umpires i am sure they know how to fix games.

 

[Cyclops]

I think the points being made are valid: if a decent number of players on one side decide to lose they will lose. If you had the best 3-4 guys in a team, or the whole midfield group, then the fix would be in.

I think the umps can sway a match, as can individual players, but because its such a team game they couldn't guarantee a result. I know I've seen bad (not rigged, just bad) umpiring sway many a game but only rarely have they changed a result: there was a Swans game at Vic Park in the late 1980's where a Barry Mitchell free (on top of a catalogue of errors against us)changed the result, as well as an infamous Crows/Lions game.

Because our scoring is more volatile than in "You-go-I-go" games like gridiron and basketball I think points shaving would be as hard to manage as result fixing.

I think the case where players back themselves to win is different: that can be a motivational tool and while it should be punished, it s a whole different case to guys that bet on themselves to lose.

The infamous Lillee/Marsh bet in the Botham test in 1981 (IIRC) just stank, and those fellas should've been banned for life.

 

[MarkT]

It would be difficult but anything is possible. It is no more or less likely for the banning of betting by players or club officials.

 

[- PC -]

Ithere was a Swans game at Vic Park in the late 1980's where a Barry Mitchell free (on top of a catalogue of errors against us)changed the result, as well as an infamous Crows/Lions game.

Fitzroy? Jamesons goal? It was still a difficult goal to kick from where he was, given the weather conditions

The infamous Lillee/Marsh bet in the Botham test in 1981 (IIRC) just stank, and those fellas should've been banned for life.

Like the footballers putting end of season trip money on, it was a different era and the odds would have been to juicy to ignore, hell I put $5 on a horse paying $77 on the weekend, though I had no control over the result, just as I am confident Lillee and Marsh would have been busting to win.

 

[jim boy]

Yeah, can't remember the excat details but it is been widely rumoured that Freo threw a game against Geelong when winning looked like it would cost them draft picks. While this wasn't anything to do with gambling, it shows the coach has all the capability to throw a match.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Its already been done.See Collingwoods draw

 

[smithos]

Players could still fix aspects of a game if the overall outcome is too hard too fix. I seem to remember Barry Hall handing the Coleman to Fraser Gehrig a couple of years ago, which shows how a player can have the ability to essentially manipulate a betting outcome.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Pardon my ignorance, but hasn't AFL football already been tarnished by a "match fixing" scandal, in a PF no less.
Some more educated follower may be able to fill in the details but I'm thinking of a Carlton, Sth Melbourne GF in 1910? Going off the top of my head here but weren't a few top players paid to play dead and were subsequently suspended for lengthy periods, if not life.
If someone knows the correct details, or can eleborate on this, please do so.

I looked it up in my 100 Years of Football book and there is an article that hints that at least 3 Carlton players were paid to play dead in the 1909 Grand Final against South Melbourne. Of these 3, 2 were suspended for 5 years (triple-premiership player Alex Lang & first-year rookie Doug Fraser) while the other (dual-premiership player Doug Gillespie). Also it claims Fitzroy had 5 players paid to play dead against South in another game but doesnt say when that was.

Also on the 100 Years of Football video an old Carlton or Collingwood player (cant remember who) seemed to think Squizzy Taylor was involved in the 1909 match-fixing.

 

[Falchoon]

shaving points to restrict winning margins is a huge possibility

that's where the potential danger lies

 

[B.A9]

I looked it up in my 100 Years of Football book and there is an article that hints that at least 3 Carlton players were paid to play dead in the 1909 Grand Final against South Melbourne. Of these 3, 2 were suspended for 5 years (triple-premiership player Alex Lang & first-year rookie Doug Fraser) while the other (dual-premiership player Doug Gillespie). Also it claims Fitzroy had 5 players paid to play dead against South in another game but doesnt say when that was.

Also on the 100 Years of Football video an old Carlton or Collingwood player (cant remember who) seemed to think Squizzy Taylor was involved in the 1909 match-fixing.

It could have been possible to fix games in the past without T.V. The only way I could see matches being fixed is, if a player had a shot at goal near the end of the match and the result could change the winning margin he was betting on. Players are under too much scrutiny by the media and their clubs these days.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

It could have been possible to fix games in the past without T.V. The only way I could see matches being fixed is, if a player had a shot at goal near the end of the match and the result could change the winning margin he was betting on. Players are under too much scrutiny by the media and their clubs these days.

I agree. Too many variables in AFL compared to say Boxing, Horse Racing or Tennis.

 

[DaSawx]

Hypothetically, would the media know if a played was running 10% less than normal or deciding not to go in hard for a couple of 50/50 balls?

 

[Smokin]

again, fixing actual resorts is very rare in relation to corrupt sports scenarios.

US Sports & Soccer have seen their fair share of betting corruption, but generally it revolves around spread/margain betting or similar.

If a team is -40, and they are up by 50 points with 5 mins to go, and certain players decide to "relax", stop running and applying pressure, and as a result the opposite team scores the last 2 goals.

Who the hell could possibly pick it?

It already happens, not necessarily for betting purposes, but every week a team will take their foot off the accelerator.

Just about impossible to catch by just watching the game.

Even in boxing, a 2 person sport, much of the fixing lied around round propositions and scenarios, and not simply head to head.

You can take a dive and get 2 or 3/1, or you can take a dive in the 4th round and get 18/1. Exact same risk, very different reward.

 

[Sandgroper35]

Judd could quite easily.

Remember what happened to the West Coast Judders when he got injured last season?

 

[Asty]

The infamous Lillee/Marsh bet in the Botham test in 1981 (IIRC) just stank, and those fellas should've been banned for life.

No way. That was just a joke bet because there is no way a side should be 500/1 in a two horse race.

 

[incubi]

Essendons performance against Footscray in the 1924 Champions of Victoria match has always been seen as rather suspicious.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

I looked it up in my 100 Years of Football book and there is an article that hints that at least 3 Carlton players were paid to play dead in the 1909 Grand Final against South Melbourne. Of these 3, 2 were suspended for 5 years (triple-premiership player Alex Lang & first-year rookie Doug Fraser) while the other (dual-premiership player Doug Gillespie). Also it claims Fitzroy had 5 players paid to play dead against South in another game but doesnt say when that was.

Heres a scan of the article if anyone cares.

 

[Rohan J. Carringbush]

I looked it up in my 100 Years of Football book and there is an article that hints that at least 3 Carlton players were paid to play dead in the 1909 Grand Final against South Melbourne. Of these 3, 2 were suspended for 5 years (triple-premiership player Alex Lang & first-year rookie Doug Fraser) while the other (dual-premiership player Doug Gillespie). Also it claims Fitzroy had 5 players paid to play dead against South in another game but doesnt say when that was.

Also on the 100 Years of Football video an old Carlton or Collingwood player (cant remember who) seemed to think Squizzy Taylor was involved in the 1909 match-fixing.

It was 1910.

Lang claimed it was kind of a joke, that he took the money but had no intention of playing dead.

Carlton fans at the time believed South Melbourne was behind the bribery. They had unexpectedly lost the 1909 flag to South (the Blues had won 3 in a row prior to that). For some, the fact that this bribery scandal match was also against South was more than a coincidence.

Carlton went on to lose the Grand Final to Collingwood a week later.