Is it time to finally forgive Brian Coleman?

[Neville Bartos]

I was only 12 during our club defining year in 1996, when Brian Coleman and the Hawthorn board accepted the inevitable and tried to convince the members that a merger with Melbourne was the only option for our club's survival.

I think it's fair to say that we all harboured some pretty bad feelings toward Brian and anyone who supported the "Melbourne take-over", but as I read in the Age this morning, the club has finally decided to induct Brian Coleman, a club stalwart for 45 years, into the Hawthorn Hall of Fame.

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/coleman-medal/2009/03/19/1237055003536.html

Do people here still hold a grudge against Coleman? Are we a big enough club to forgive him and remember the great things he did for our club as chairman of selectors and as a player?

Personally, I'm really pleased to see that the club holds no grudges, and as a family club, we show strong character in being able to forgive, where other clubs might not in a similar situation.

 

[LJM77]

I was only 12 during our club defining year in 1996, when Brian Coleman and the Hawthorn board accepted the inevitable and tried to convince the members that a merger with Melbourne was the only option for our club's survival.

I think it's fair to say that we all harboured some pretty bad feelings toward Brian and anyone who supported the "Melbourne take-over", but as I read in the Age this morning, the club has finally decided to induct Brian Coleman, a club stalwart for 45 years, into the Hawthorn Hall of Fame.

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/coleman-medal/2009/03/19/1237055003536.html

Do people here still hold a grudge against Coleman? Are we a big enough club to forgive him and remember the great things he did for our club as chairman of selectors and as a player?

Personally, I'm really pleased to see that the club holds no grudges, and as a family club, we show strong character in being able to forgive, where other clubs might not in a similar situation.

Yes, I'd have to agree with Mr Bartos's sentiments. It's good to see this great club of ours thriving and all those who have made and continue to make the Hawks great should always be welcome with open arms and Brian Coleman is no exception and is truly worthy of a spot in the club's hall of fame.

 

[vaughnie]

In the heat of the moment when we were faced with the loss of our club there was a lot of hostility. But put yourself in Brian's position. He inherited a mess that wasn't of his making. He was no doubt under pressure from the AFL commission determined to get rid of Melbourne clubs and they were throwing bucket loads of money around. He was faced with the potential of trading whilst insolvent and the legal issues that directors are faced with in those circumstances.

In the end, if the 15000 or so people who signed up for membership in 2007 had done so years earlier the club would not have been in that position. Or if one or two of his predecessors had run the club more efficiently then it wouldn't have happened.

Brian doesn't need to be forgiven. He did what he had to do. He has been a stalwart of our club and deserves every recognition that comes his way.

 

[Pessimistic]

"In here, we may be opponents, but when the vote is over, out there, we are all Hawthorn"

Don Scott, Merger night speech.

I remember thinking on the way home after the meeting that we were all abusing one guy, but we were all guilty by apathy.

The club died in 93 not 96 when they sacked Ayres, Brereton etc - 2 years after a Flag

The Board helped Operation Payback wherever possible to be successful - and ensured a smooth transition. Deep down they would all want it to be successful.

What is alarming is the manouvering behind the scenes by ex presidents. Like the current president is someone chosen to take the flak - is it so with jeff ? will he resign as his new constitution requires but then become a powerbroker behind the scenes ?

Surely the most accountable way is for the power brokers to hold office. Hopefully if Jeff has done one thing its instil some transparency into he place. The Dicker-Scott row of a few years back shows the factions did not get cleansed completely back in 96. The factions can be healthy, not unhealthy, if managed in the right way.

One final comment:

Rot in Hell Ross Oakley

 

[Pessimistic]

In the heat of the moment when we were faced with the loss of our club there was a lot of hostility. But put yourself in Brian's position. He inherited a mess that wasn't of his making. He was no doubt under pressure from the AFL commission determined to get rid of Melbourne clubs and they were throwing bucket loads of money around. He was faced with the potential of trading whilst insolvent and the legal issues that directors are faced with in those circumstances.

In the end, if the 15000 or so people who signed up for membership in 2007 had done so years earlier the club would not have been in that position. Or if one or two of his predecessors had run the club more efficiently then it wouldn't have happened.

Brian doesn't need to be forgiven. He did what he had to do. He has been a stalwart of our club and deserves every recognition that comes his way.

Hawthorn and Melbourne directors were backed into a corner by the AFL when they 'arranged' for business plans by big 6 accounting firms which said the ONLY option was to merge. Directors would probably be personally liable if the resisted that advice and the situation worsened.

Ironically the big 6 - now - big 4 and shrinking accounting firms have since been shown to be on shifting sands themselves

Contrast that with just a couple of years later when the AFL bent backwards to help geelong out of a much bigger debt.
Carlton have gone far worse than Fitzroy did, on and off the field

 

[carntheroos4eva]

Yeah I guess it is time to forgive Brian Coleman. After all he is pretty well known.
Pessimistic,

I think that you are missing the point there re: Ross Oakley comment. At the time both Melbourne and Hawthorn were struggling. We had finished down the bottom of the ladder winning the wooden spoon and having an aging list. We had to rebuild, and had a change of coach because Peter Knights at the time didn't know what he was doing. He does now though.
Worst of all was we didn't have enough money to survive. We hardly had enough members and everything was looking shithouse for the hawks.
We needed heaps of changes which we made. Look at us now.

I was 19 years old when I saw this happen to Hawthorn. I was copping a lot of shit from all of my friends in Year 12. It wasn't a really good feeling at the time.

 

[Gary Shadforth]

The Dicker-Scott row of a few years back shows the factions did not get cleansed completely back in 96.

I'm not sure what you mean there, Pessi. Scotty and Ian were allies facing up to the merger. They fell out as the Schwab/Turnbull era turned into a disaster. Hence, Don's campaign against Ian and the board. Ian, always financing and putting the club first drove to jeff's home ad asked if he would take-over.

And as for Brian, he with the likes of Jeansy were on the end of bitter anger as they got into bed with the Demon's Ian Ridley who headed Melbournes' eyes on our tangible assets. The Dees had nothing - neither cash or solid assets. We had the latter - land and a building. No cash and Ian and Don led the way to turn that around for the Hawks. Melbourne have languished on the brink of disaster ever since. If the merger had have gone ahead we would probably have been down in the cellar with them this very day.

Getting back to Brian. I was very sad at the time that this man who bled brown and gold, and it showed on his sleeve, had gotten himself involved on the wrong side of the fence by not reading the mood of the general membership. I have no need to forgive him as I understood that any thoughts, feelings and beliefs Brian had at the time is what he thought was in saving at least part of the club. History has shown that wasn't the way to go but no one really knew at the time how it was all going to turn out.

I was inspired by our legendary full-back, Chris Langford, when he pulled off his guernsey after our last 1996 round 'merger game' against the Dees in 1996, displaying that any thought of merging with the Redlegs was sacrilege.

 

[carntheroos4eva]

Gaz,

I remember seeing all of that.

For the life of me I won't ever forgive Don Scott who would have to be the rudest guy I have ever come across. The rude emails he sent me when I was trying to help him. Nope the guy just wouldn't listen.

 

[Pessimistic]

I was still making my mind up (given the massive PR campaign against) but derogatory comments By Oakley and Then premier Jeff Kennets "Theu should Merge" comments put my back up and My mind was set.

When they got several thousand to that rally at glenferrie before the Melbourne game the merger was effectively dead. They could have cancelled the merger meeting but having it out probably helped to shake the apathy, as we know

 

[carntheroos4eva]

"In here, we may be opponents, but when the vote is over, out there, we are all Hawthorn"

Don Scott, Merger night speech.

I remember thinking on the way home after the meeting that we were all abusing one guy, but we were all guilty by apathy.

The club died in 93 not 96 when they sacked Ayres, Brereton etc - 2 years after a Flag

The Board helped Operation Payback wherever possible to be successful - and ensured a smooth transition. Deep down they would all want it to be successful.

What is alarming is the manouvering behind the scenes by ex presidents. Like the current president is someone chosen to take the flak - is it so with jeff ? will he resign as his new constitution requires but then become a powerbroker behind the scenes ?

Surely the most accountable way is for the power brokers to hold office. Hopefully if Jeff has done one thing its instil some transparency into he place. The Dicker-Scott row of a few years back shows the factions did not get cleansed completely back in 96. The factions can be healthy, not unhealthy, if managed in the right way.

One final comment:

Rot in Hell Ross Oakley

No they didn't die at all. They moved forward. Look at us now we have won another flag.
Don Scott was a stubborn and grumpy old fart that didn't like change. Ian Dicker was all for change. As is Jeff Kennett.

 

[Gary Shadforth]

Relayed....

Gaz,

I remember seeing all of that.

For the life of me I won't ever forgive Don Scott who would have to be the rudest guy I have ever come across. The rude emails he sent me when I was trying to help him. Nope the guy just wouldn't listen.

 

[caddyhawk]

Sometimes you have to do what you have to do, even when you don't really agree with it. It's over, done and dusted. Welcome back Brian, not that he ever left.

 

[hawkinson]

first post - here goes:

I never thought I would say this but yes it is time to forgive and foget and finally heal those deeply felt wounds...

I was 27 at the time and had been your classic arrogant, apathetic hawks supporter, still riding on the past glories of the eighties when the bombshell of the merger hit

I will never forget those weeks and the feelings of utter desolation, fear, shock, sadness, anger and dismay at the prospect of losing my team forever

I was at glenferrie oval the day of the merger game when dermie made his famous return to the fold and held aloft his 23 during his passionate speech to the faithful - I stood amongst a sea of thousands of hawks supporters, mostly male, with not a dry eye in the house

I was at the famous 'merger' game that night where a fiesty little tagger called clarkson shadowed crawf, dunstall booted ten to bring up another ton (out and out champion of the game that man), 63 thousand fans (mainly hawks - no surprise there) on the collective edge of their seats as the game hung in the balance for the bulk of the last quarter, the ball deep in our defense for the last 5 - 10 minutes as we grimly hung on for the narrowest of victories to seal a spot in the finals - the tension, emotion and relief as we lived to literally play one more week was amazing to behold - and then the great man langford openly defied the hawthorn management party line by bearing his magnificent chest and holding aloft his coveted jumper to the southern stand (I love the man, now and always my favorite player for standing up for our great club - long live captain america)

my mates and I were totally spent emotionally and phsyically and did not know what the future held, for the second time in a day tears were shed

a week later my mates and I jumped in the car with our 'no merger' posters and made the long trip north to the soulless city (in an unorganised convoy with hundreds of other hawks cars) to witness another amazing game of football in the first final against sydney - alas this time the fairytale finish went sydneys way as we lost narrowly in a tightly fought contest

my mates and I stood on the ground post game in utter disbelief that this could / would be the last time we ever saw our beloved hawks strut their stuff

somehow we managed to sneak unchallenged into the hawthorn rooms through the cricket baclonies (fate works in mysterious ways) and bore witness to a most bizarre and chilling atmosphere - men in suits standing around grinning and chatting as if at a corporate function as players sat dejected and broken having just lost a final, possibly the last ever final for the mighty brown and gold, someone somewhere started a rendition of the theme song and it remains the most haunting, bitter and uneasy moment in my memory as I felt duty bound to try and sing along with tears in my eyes and a lump in my throat torn between despair and anger - I was lucky enough to find the great chested one langers sitting quietly in a corner and shiook his hand and thanked him for the years of service he had given to my club

for the third time in two weeks the tears flowed for my beloved club

I think it was only two weeks after that that I sat outside glenferrie town hall as the merger meeting rumbled and thundered inside, my mates and I listened on the loudspeakers to the impassioned magic of Don, looked at each other in agonising disbelief and understanding as jeansy and huddo amongst others were booed, felt cold and betrayed by those 'men in suits' who had such grand designs for the HFC their lies stripped naked and exposed as the sham they were by Dons mastersroke performance with the now famous 'velcro hawk' - voted NO along with over 80% of hawthorn members and went home elated that we would live to fight another battle

the next year my mates and I all gave at least $100 to operation payback (a lot of money for us at the time) to help save our club and the rest, as they say is history, beautiful, inspiring history - we stand now on the brink of a period of sustained on field success, will be the first victorian club to reach 50,000 members, have a very strong balance sheet and still wear the sensational colours of brown and gold

it was the wake up call we had to have and poor old Brian Coleman was a bit of a Judas, kisssing Jesus' cheek only to realise he himself had been betrayed but moments later

crisis equals opportunity - Brain Coleman helped facilitate the climax to our crisis and we collectively took the opportunity - the man deserves our forgiveness and his rightful place in our illustrious and exclusive hall of fame and it is a delightful irony that Dermie will be inducted alongside him

long live the mighty fighting hawks.

---------------------------------------
GS EDIT: Your first post and what a great one it is. Well done hawkinson and welcome.

 

[Neville Bartos]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What an absolutely brilliant post mate. I'm choking up just reading it, and I really hope you got to the MCG last septemper to live our revival. Thanks again

 

[Changa10]

Hawkinson, you made tears roll down my face with that post (I'm at work, so I hope nobody saw!! Ah stuff em). I, like you, was 27 in 1996, and I have only cried 3 times since then. The birth of my 2 beautiful daughters, and September 27, 2008, when Crawf received his Premiership Medallion.

You bring back a lot of memories, and supporters of other clubs should read your post, and then maybe they will have some understanding as to why us Hawks Supporters are so passionate about our beloved football club.

Long live the MIGHTY HAWKS.

 

[Pessimistic]

I'm not sure what you mean there, Pessi. Scotty and Ian were allies facing up to the merger. They fell out as the Schwab/Turnbull era turned into a disaster. Hence, Don's campaign against Ian and the board. Ian, always financing and putting the club first drove to jeff's home ad asked if he would take-over.

And as for Brian, he with the likes of Jeansy were on the end of bitter anger as they got into bed with the Demon's Ian Ridley who headed Melbournes' eyes on our tangible assets. The Dees had nothing - neither cash or solid assets. We had the latter - land and a building. No cash and Ian and Don led the way to turn that around for the Hawks. Melbourne have languished on the brink of disaster ever since. If the merger had have gone ahead we would probably have been down in the cellar with them this very day.

Getting back to Brian. I was very sad at the time that this man who bled brown and gold, and it showed on his sleeve, had gotten himself involved on the wrong side of the fence by not reading the mood of the general membership. I have no need to forgive him as I understood that any thoughts, feelings and beliefs Brian had at the time is what he thought was in saving at least part of the club. History has shown that wasn't the way to go but no one really knew at the time how it was all going to turn out.

I was inspired by our legendary full-back, Chris Langford, when he pulled off his guernsey after our last 1996 round 'merger game' against the Dees in 1996, displaying that any thought of merging with the Redlegs was sacrilege.

What I mean is there was political failure and I hope this never happens again.
Wondering whether Jeffs limited tenure constutional change will help or hinder this

 

[hawkinson]

Neville Bartos - I was there last September mate...top of the new stand city goals end, it was without a doubt the happiest day I have spent at the footy as I understood and appreciated what it meant for all the hawthorn family

thanks to you and Changa10 for your nice response - and changa, I too have only cried a few times since then - the birth of my two beautiful kids (1 son - dare I dream that he follows in the footsteps of his hero 'mitch' and plays for the mighty brown and gold?) and of course 27/09/08

see you at the footy this year wearing the proud grins of reigning premiers ... )

 

[CrawfGal]

Hawkinson, i was 26 & remember going through similar emotions to you. Tears were rolling down my cheeks reading your post. I have been a member since 97 come what may ! Yes we Hawthorn supporters are overly passionate due to all what we have been through in 96 & beyond.

Go Hawkers !!!!!!

PS: Yes we should forgive Coleman !

 

[market]

first post - here goes:

I never thought I would say this but yes it is time to forgive and foget and finally heal those deeply felt wounds...

I was 27 at the time and had been your classic arrogant, apathetic hawks supporter, still riding on the past glories of the eighties when the bombshell of the merger hit

I will never forget those weeks and the feelings of utter desolation, fear, shock, sadness, anger and dismay at the prospect of losing my team forever

I was at glenferrie oval the day of the merger game when dermie made his famous return to the fold and held aloft his 23 during his passionate speech to the faithful - I stood amongst a sea of thousands of hawks supporters, mostly male, with not a dry eye in the house

I was at the famous 'merger' game that night where a fiesty little tagger called clarkson shadowed crawf, dunstall booted ten to bring up another ton (out and out champion of the game that man), 63 thousand fans (mainly hawks - no surprise there) on the collective edge of their seats as the game hung in the balance for the bulk of the last quarter, the ball deep in our defense for the last 5 - 10 minutes as we grimly hung on for the narrowest of victories to seal a spot in the finals - the tension, emotion and relief as we lived to literally play one more week was amazing to behold - and then the great man langford openly defied the hawthorn management party line by bearing his magnificent chest and holding aloft his coveted jumper to the southern stand (I love the man, now and always my favorite player for standing up for our great club - long live captain america)

my mates and I were totally spent emotionally and phsyically and did not know what the future held, for the second time in a day tears were shed

a week later my mates and I jumped in the car with our 'no merger' posters and made the long trip north to the soulless city (in an unorganised convoy with hundreds of other hawks cars) to witness another amazing game of football in the first final against sydney - alas this time the fairytale finish went sydneys way as we lost narrowly in a tightly fought contest

my mates and I stood on the ground post game in utter disbelief that this could / would be the last time we ever saw our beloved hawks strut their stuff

somehow we managed to sneak unchallenged into the hawthorn rooms through the cricket baclonies (fate works in mysterious ways) and bore witness to a most bizarre and chilling atmosphere - men in suits standing around grinning and chatting as if at a corporate function as players sat dejected and broken having just lost a final, possibly the last ever final for the mighty brown and gold, someone somewhere started a rendition of the theme song and it remains the most haunting, bitter and uneasy moment in my memory as I felt duty bound to try and sing along with tears in my eyes and a lump in my throat torn between despair and anger - I was lucky enough to find the great chested one langers sitting quietly in a corner and shiook his hand and thanked him for the years of service he had given to my club

for the third time in two weeks the tears flowed for my beloved club

I think it was only two weeks after that that I sat outside glenferrie town hall as the merger meeting rumbled and thundered inside, my mates and I listened on the loudspeakers to the impassioned magic of Don, looked at each other in agonising disbelief and understanding as jeansy and huddo amongst others were booed, felt cold and betrayed by those 'men in suits' who had such grand designs for the HFC their lies stripped naked and exposed as the sham they were by Dons mastersroke performance with the now famous 'velcro hawk' - voted NO along with over 80% of hawthorn members and went home elated that we would live to fight another battle

the next year my mates and I all gave at least $100 to operation payback (a lot of money for us at the time) to help save our club and the rest, as they say is history, beautiful, inspiring history - we stand now on the brink of a period of sustained on field success, will be the first victorian club to reach 50,000 members, have a very strong balance sheet and still wear the sensational colours of brown and gold

it was the wake up call we had to have and poor old Brian Coleman was a bit of a Judas, kisssing Jesus' cheek only to realise he himself had been betrayed but moments later

crisis equals opportunity - Brain Coleman helped facilitate the climax to our crisis and we collectively took the opportunity - the man deserves our forgiveness and his rightful place in our illustrious and exclusive hall of fame and it is a delightful irony that Dermie will be inducted alongside him

long live the mighty fighting hawks.

This is an awesome post! (and you reckon it was your first one!)
- well done.

Back in 96, like a lot of hawks supporters, I was unaware of what the real risk to the club was. I felt sure that due to being such a successful club, surely we would be able to ride this storm out - just like the GF wins we had been enjoying, I was thinking "no problems, we'll get through this, get in a couple of GF's before year 2000 and all will be sweet).....

Well the wake up call has well and truly been sounded and we who are so fortunate to have a club to follow like the Hawks, need to make sure that the club is NEVER put in such a position again (bit dramatic, I know - like "Lest we forget" stuff), but its been shown time and time again, that you take things for granted and you will come undone.

Even with the massively strong position the club is in at the moment, its not a time to sit back, its a time to strike and ramp up the growth again to leverage off the success we are currently enjoying.

Anyway, great thread Nev and some inspiring comments and yes, it is time to welcome Brian back officially.

 

[hawkinson]

first post on big footy 'market', I used to post a bit under the same name on hawkheadquarters - a while back now...

 

[Gaborone]

There is nothing to forgive. When things go wrong in any organisation people have to be shaken up and confront reality. If Coleman and co. hadn't put what seemed to be the only viable option at the time then Hawthorn would have quietly slipped out of existence. He did what he thought he had to to save a vestige of Hawthorn and in the process provided the opprotunity for supporters to rally. Read the article in today's Real Footy the final sentence says it all.
The guy loves the club what more could you ask?

 

[Roughouse]

The whole merger debate was certainly a defining moment in Hawthorn’s history.

In the years leading up to it, our supporters were, as Hawkinson appropriately put it, “apathetic.”

Our attendances and membership were spiralling downwards and really the writing was on the wall.
I have never blamed Jeansy and Brian Coleman for their stance as they simply felt it was better to retain something of our Club than nothing.

I’m sure if you asked them today what they felt about that time they would be proud of their actions, but even prouder in the fact they effectively mobilised the huge supporter base of the Hawthorn “nation.” We all needed a kick up the ar*e and we got it.

Chris Langford’s pride and Don Scott’s anger rallied the troops into a frenzy, and we really never looked back from a membership perspective. I consider them all heroes because they each acted in a way they felt was best for the Club.

 

[Gaborone]

Spot on Roughouse

 

[Davo23]

The whole merger debate was certainly a defining moment in Hawthorn’s history.

In the years leading up to it, our supporters were, as Hawkinson appropriately put it, “apathetic.”

Our attendances and membership were spiralling downwards and really the writing was on the wall.
I have never blamed Jeansy and Brian Coleman for their stance as they simply felt it was better to retain something of our Club than nothing.

I’m sure if you asked them today what they felt about that time they would be proud of their actions, but even prouder in the fact they effectively mobilised the huge supporter base of the Hawthorn “nation.” We all needed a kick up the ar*e and we got it.

Chris Langford’s pride and Don Scott’s anger rallied the troops into a frenzy, and we really never looked back from a membership perspective. I consider them all heroes because they each acted in a way they felt was best for the Club.

Very nicely written, Roughouse.

No need to forgive Brian Coleman or welcome him back - he's always been one of us.


.

 

[fishbowl]

I forgave him at 5.15ish pm 27/09/08, when the siren went.