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If we are going to test it, let's test it. Let's see what the stats tell us.
Are you afraid?
Is it too soon to say i told you so?
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If we are going to test it, let's test it. Let's see what the stats tell us.
Are you afraid?
Heafy83
Premiership Player
You cannot compare Tippett to any of those forwards really except for maybe Carey, Neitz and Franklin. All those guys played or play 90-100% of their time at FF and none of them are over 200cm.
Team DJ
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3 goals is hardly smashing an opponent.
Then in the second half, when we needed someone to step up and keep us in the game he went missing..... Is that what youre saying?
Finding faults in Tipps game isnt to hard.
His football brain is lacking ( no one can argue that)
His kicking is that of an auskicker (again no one can argue that)
Those faults are not only there but as obvious as dog balls to anyone that doesnt where red yellow and blue goggles.
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But I thought conversion rates were the gold standard?
Oh, so they're not.... because different players players play in different spots, have different shots at goal, at different stages of the game, from different angles on different days in different conditions in different situations.
Should we stop now or do you want to keep making my point for me.
And what difference does Kurt's height make to the argument? I'm not saying he's a bad kick for a big bloke, I'm just saying he's a bad kick therefore we should move him. They don't make the goals wider when you're 200cm. If they did, you might have a point.
Heafy83
Premiership Player
Never said they were gold standard, said they were ONE of the critical stats for a forward.
I made the 200cm statement because its all about the ball drop. If the ball has further to fall then it has more of a chance of something happening to it to affect the kick.
Heafy83
Premiership Player
The guy had 5 shots on goal and they had to change his opponent because of it.
Then in the second half, I don't know why, he was moved up the ground more.
So Franklin has the kick of an auskicker too? Both at 58% conversion.
How is his football brain lacking?
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So how is that an argument in favour of playing him deep forward?
Again, you are making my point for me. My beef isn't with Tippett, my beef is with the club for persisting with him in a position where his major deficiency is able to hurt us so badly.
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I think the topic is beyond you.
How does Richo's conversion rate stack up with a couple of those other guys?
- Jul 19, 2010
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Mods, feel free to move these posts to the Kurt's kicking conundrum thread
Heafy83
Premiership Player
How is it hurting us so badly? His kicking has never cost us a game. The fact we had another forward who was too lazy to get off his ass and do something cost us more. In the same time Tippett kicked 3.2 buddy had kicked 0.2 to HT.
There was a clear advantage on Schoenmakers so why wouldn't you use it. If it was walker we wouldn't have had an advantage. Walker cant take a contested mark to save his life.
And anyone with half a footy brain realises he is not playing deep forward all that much. Probably only 30-40% of the time. The rest he is at HF or in ruck.
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That's debatable but even so, 40% is too much for a guy with his kicking woes.
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And it did hurt us badly yesterday.
The momentum shift after that third quarter miss was palpable.
The momentum shift after that third quarter miss was palpable.
Heafy83
Premiership Player
He had one shot for goal in the 3rd. In no way does getting that one shot take us from an almost 10 goal loss to a win or a close game.
Our disposal is what killed us yesterday plain and simple.
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Again, you need to recognise momentum shifts and the impact they have on the course of a game.
We shouldn't have been four goals down at half time to start with, and again, Kurtly's kicking had a fair say in that.
Heafy83
Premiership Player
Ok ok lets look at it at a different angle. How would have you set it up yesterday or done things differently?
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I've said numerous times in here before that Jacobs and Tippett should be rucks 1 and 2.
When he's not rucking, play him wherever you want except deep forward. Yesterday the temptation was there to expose the Hawthorn defence with Tippett's strength and marking. I'm not denying it, it was a huge temptation
Like the poison apple.
So what do we do with him Pete. Drop him,sell him, play him in the back lines or solely in the ruck?
He monstered those backs early, the guy is a dominant forward but his kicking did let him down.What is the alternative, Walker will never take a pack mark yet Tippett will give you a contest all year.
They all needed to kick straight when the chance was there.
Vince, Walker, Pet, Rutten and Tippett all needed to nail those kicks.
What is the answer Pete?
Are you suggesting that taller guys arm lengths are generally less proportional to their height, than a shorter bloke?
Sam Jacobs kicking style looks pretty fluent to me. Ditto Cox, Leunberger, Kreuzer etc. etc.
I think you're clutching at straws here. Some blokes are just not very reliable kicks. Tippett is one of them.
jackster83
The leader of the bunch.
To hell with the midfield experiment - get Porps closer to goal. He's having very little influence on the ball/HFF anyway. Get him one out close to goal and let the ball come to him. He looked far more dangerous than Petrenko at ground level yesterday. Petrenko is the one who should be playing further up the ground (with orders to run around and try and play like Rodan).
Heafy83
Premiership Player
It may be proportional but its still greater. I guy who is 200cm+ is going to have a longer ball drop than who is 190cm.
I bet if you have all those guys playing Forward as often as Tippett they would have similar conversion rates.
I think Paul Salmon at Essendon is the closest comparison to Tippett. Even he only had a 64% conversion rate.
I'm not saying Tippett is a good kick what I'm saying is for what he does do for the team and what he offers he certainly is more beneficial playing him like we do now. This is unless of course Walker develops a work ethic or contested mark. Obviously its a part of his game he needs to work on but really the most he will probably ever improve is 2-3%.
His benefits far outweight his negatives and he was certainly not the reason we lost by almost 10 goals yesterday because of 3 missed shots.
Heafy83
Premiership Player
My favourite part of the day was when there was a ball up in our 50m about 45m out. Tippett took the ruck and belted it forward, Callinan was running through gathered it and kicked a goal from 30m out. Looking forward to seeing more of that during the year.
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Team DJ
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Just in case you cant work it out, there is a difference between football brain and kicking ability.
Kurt has the brain of a basketballer playing Football. Lance has quite a good football brain, moves to the right spots etc.
Lances goal kicking is not very good. I have never said it was. But again you need to look at where he is kicking the ball from. Lance takes more snap shots and rushed shots at goal then any kpf that i can remember. This does hinder his goal kicking percentage. Kurt doesnt not take anywhere near as many of these and is a woeful set shot.
My favourite part of any game is when Callinan has the ball.
I actually reckon he's not in great form at the moment. There is a fair bit of improvement there yet.
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