Opinion Is Our Flag Window Shut?

[Topkent]

You really are a glass half full guy.

You think that core group of players is better than Brisbane, Hawks, Geelong, Essendon, Port etc? Cause it's not. Even other one off premiers like WC and Sydney back to back are very easily arguably better

 

[Crusty Demon]

I think we're definitely closest to the Richmond group but lacking the firepower up forward they had.

Exactly. Very similar to the Richmond group. Just a touch behind them in regards to the F50. More teams contending now too which makes it harder to win multiple flags. I mean who did Tigers have competing? A flaky GWS and the Cats who didn't quite have the pieces. Could throw a blanket over 10 teams genuinely competing this year.

 

[Bluelegs]

You think that core group of players is better than Brisbane, Hawks, Geelong, Essendon, Port etc? Cause it's not. Even other one off premiers like WC and Sydney back to back are very easily arguably better

I mean it's all relative though. Doesn't really matter if we're incomparible to the Brisbane or Geelong dynasty sides because no one in the comp is close to those sides.

 

[Topkent]

I mean it's all relative though. Doesn't really matter if we're incomparible to the Brisbane or Geelong dynasty sides because no one in the comp is close to those sides.

Its relative to the post though, this groups good but it's not triple premiership lost opportunity special as far as I can see. Would need other players to step up

 

[Topkent]

Only have to scroll up to see that Brown and Tmac are just slightly off to Riewoldt and Lynch

 

[Bluelegs]

Its relative to the post though, this groups good but it's not triple premiership lost opportunity special as far as I can see. Would need other players to step up

That's fair although Richmond proved you could do it with a small handful of stars and a bunch of role players, but they did have a generational player in Martin who they probably don't win a single flag without.

I do think it's a good exercise to remind ourselves to be thankful for what we've got. When you consider those early to mid 2000's sides like Essendon, Port, West Coast all only won a single flag, and Adelaide of the mid 00's didn't even snag one. They are bloody hard to win.

 

[Bluelegs]

Obviously both are pretty hard to do but I actually think I'd rather rather see our club get to a point where we are constantly in the mix of the top 8 and win a flag every decade or so like Sydney or Geelong than just see us have a dynasty and fall back into nothing.

 

[Topkent]

Obviously both are pretty hard to do but I actually think I'd rather rather see our club get to a point where we are constantly in the mix of the top 8 and win a flag every decade or so like Sydney or Geelong than just see us have a dynasty and fall back into nothing.

I'd rather the dynasty. Can you imagine how shit AFL is gonna be in a few years once all contact is gone.

 

[mrmonkey]

Dimma Hardwick won a flag at 30 with port. I'd say it's actually reasonably common. Probably happened heaps back in the days when North and Carlton were taken players with the 10 year rule.

Makes me think of Greg Wells, Melbourne sold him to Carlton mid 1980 and ended up winning a premiership with Carlton in 81. Weird to think of that happening today. Pretty sure he was playing for Melbourne one week and against Melbourne the next.

 

[Johnny Karate]

You think that core group of players is better than Brisbane, Hawks, Geelong, Essendon, Port etc? Cause it's not. Even other one off premiers like WC and Sydney back to back are very easily arguably better

Melbourne 2021-
Fritsch, Gawn, Lever, May, Oliver, Petracca, Pickett chuck in Salem and Brayshaw being very generous

Sydney Swans 2005-06
Barry, C Bolton, J Bolton, Davis, Goodes, Hall, Kirk, Kennelly, O’Keefe, O’Loughlin, Williams

West Coast Eagles 2005-06
Braun, Cox, Cousins, Embley, Fletcher, Glass, Hunter, Judd, Kerr, Wirrpanda

Funny how Sydney arguably had more stars/classy players but played a battling style. Probably far more jobbers at the bottom end of the Eagles but had one of the all time midfield quartets leading the charge.

 

[Topkent]

Melbourne 2021-
Fritsch, Gawn, Lever, May, Oliver, Petracca, Pickett chuck in Salem and Brayshaw being very generous

Sydney Swans 2005-06
Barry, C Bolton, J Bolton, Davis, Goodes, Hall, Kirk, Kennelly, O’Keefe, O’Loughlin, Williams

West Coast Eagles 2005-06
Braun, Cox, Cousins, Embley, Fletcher, Glass, Hunter, Judd, Kerr, Wirrpanda

Funny how Sydney arguably had more stars/classy players but played a battling style. Probably far more jobbers at the bottom end of the Eagles but had one of the all time midfield quartets leading the charge.

Yeah so that's probably where I see us. Sydney have an all time great in Goodes and then HoF players like O'Loughlin, Hall, Kirk, Bolton. Could also say those teams werent up the top for 5 years because alot of their fringe players fell away and their best players peaked around them

 

[Johnny Karate]

Yeah so that's probably where I see us. Sydney have an all time great in Goodes and then HoF players like O'Loughlin, Hall, Kirk, Bolton. Could also say those teams werent up the top for 5 years because alot of their fringe players fell away and their best players peaked around them

I reckon even without the drug saga and Judd leaving that West Coast get blown away by the rise of Geelong, Hawthorn, St Kilda etc.

 

[Topkent]

I reckon even without the drug saga and Judd leaving that West Coast get blown away by the rise of Geelong, Hawthorn, St Kilda etc.

Yeah that Geelong team was frightening. Had almost as good a midfield and then a way better forward and backline

 

[mrmonkey]

Geelong 08 would have to be one of the best teams not to win a flag, had that one weird loss to Collingwood (a taste of 2010) and then gf which should have been over by half time.

 

[Johnny Karate]

Obviously both are pretty hard to do but I actually think I'd rather rather see our club get to a point where we are constantly in the mix of the top 8 and win a flag every decade or so like Sydney or Geelong than just see us have a dynasty and fall back into nothing.

It’s funny I was thinking the other day that it would be nice to be a Sydney or Geelong fan. In 30 years of following football (1993-2022) the Cats have made finals in 94-97, 2000, 04-05, 07-14, 16-22 = 22/30 years. In a lot of those years that they missed they weren’t even that shit. Sydney have made it in 96-99, 2001, 03-08, 2010-18, 21-22 = 22/30 years.

However, those two clubs have some pretty significant competitive advantages that I reckon it’s impossible for us to replicate. Sydney’s academy means that they can effectively bypass the draft and get their hands on quality kids every year. While COLA is gone they will continue to attract non-NSW players who don’t want the Vic/SA/WA footy media bubble.

Geelong have a really close relationship with the Falcons and other junior clubs throughout the Western district and are a destination club for lifestyle reasons with Free Agents, particularly those with a country background. They also have the biggest home ground advantage in footy.

Don’t get me wrong, both of those clubs have done exceptionally well to make the most of their competitive advantage but we’re almost playing with a different set of rules.

 

[schmuttt]

Yeah so that's probably where I see us. Sydney have an all time great in Goodes and then HoF players like O'Loughlin, Hall, Kirk, Bolton. Could also say those teams werent up the top for 5 years because alot of their fringe players fell away and their best players peaked around them

Reckon Gawn Petracca Oliver all leave the game with significantly better careers than any of those guys outside Goodes.

 

[Topkent]

Reckon Gawn Petracca Oliver all leave the game with significantly better careers than any of those guys outside Goodes.

Just because you dislike Barry Hall doesn't make him not a 4x AA, coaches player of the year and 11x leading goalkicker across 3 clubs. Not many blokes have been 'significantly' better than that in history

 

[schmuttt]

Just because you dislike Barry Hall doesn't make him not a 4x AA, coaches player of the year and 11x leading goalkicker across 3 clubs. Not many blokes have been 'significantly' better than that in history

I dislike Barry Hall? What? One of the more underrated players during my lifetime.

 

[stEdy]

I like Barry Hall

 

[Topkent]

I dislike Barry Hall? What? One of the more underrated players during my lifetime.

So then I'd say you'd have to be at a minimum of the level of Lloyd to be significantly better than Hall and even he probably isn't. And Oliver and Trac aren't getting a part of a stadium named after them

 

[danster168]

I actually think we'll get a bit of a resurgence in about 12-24 months though. By then JVR will hopefully be even bigger and better, Jefferson will have put on another 5-8kg and we'll have 2 first round picks and 2x2nd rounders to breath some life into our list.

 

[markm106]

I actually think we'll get a bit of a resurgence in about 12-24 months though. By then JVR will hopefully be even bigger and better, Jefferson will have put on another 5-8kg and we'll have 2 first round picks and 2x2nd rounders to breath some life into our list.

We can definitely set up for some sustained success. On top of those guys we have some really good young talent. Kozzy if he stays, Petty Bowey Rivers all have potential to become elite.

 

[dazzledavey36]

Just because you dislike Barry Hall doesn't make him not a 4x AA, coaches player of the year and 11x leading goalkicker across 3 clubs. Not many blokes have been 'significantly' better than that in history

In fairness to Oliver, while still only 25 years of age he's already a 3x All Australian and 2x AFL Coaches player of the year award.

Fair to say he'll continue to add more to those accolades.

 

[Topkent]

In fairness to Oliver, while still only 25 years of age he's already a 3x All Australian and 2x AFL Coaches player of the year award.

Fair to say he'll continue to add more to those accolades.

Didn't say he wouldn't. But is a 6-7x AA 'significantly' better than Hall?

 

[dazzledavey36]

Melbourne 2021-
Fritsch, Gawn, Lever, May, Oliver, Petracca, Pickett chuck in Salem and Brayshaw being very generous

Sydney Swans 2005-06
Barry, C Bolton, J Bolton, Davis, Goodes, Hall, Kirk, Kennelly, O’Keefe, O’Loughlin, Williams

West Coast Eagles 2005-06
Braun, Cox, Cousins, Embley, Fletcher, Glass, Hunter, Judd, Kerr, Wirrpanda

Funny how Sydney arguably had more stars/classy players but played a battling style. Probably far more jobbers at the bottom end of the Eagles but had one of the all time midfield quartets leading the charge.

I honestly think that West Coast team is underrated and probably tainted a bit with all their off field crap that went on.

For all the kudos that Judd and Cousin copped I always thought Daniel Kerr at his peak was such a magnificent footballer.

Cox, Judd, Cousins, Kerr and Fletcher as a starting mid alone was such a scary and tantalising prospect. They should have won more premierships with that team.

David Wirrpanda was one of my all time favourites.