Autopsy Is our home ground a hinderance?

[Mahlepi]

Our defence needed help as Taylor and Henderson were out early

 

[Gee Class Loco]

I think we should stop worrying about trying to get 11 home games at Geelong and make sure all Melbourne games are in fact at the g so we dont get shafted to Docklands.

Disagree... We will play 11 Home games AT HOME... and Fcuk the rest.
We will play their enough times vs Richmond, Hawthorn, Collingwood and Melbourne when they play THEIR home games there.
The BS surrounding the MCG is getting a bit too much oxygen for my liking.
As for Docklands... i love the ground. Best arena to get to and watch the game.
NM, Foots, Carlton, Essendon & St. Kilda deserve to play at home just like every other team.

 

[you pick one]

Change the present game plan not the ground,most grounds I ever played on were the same if you went through the middle except some you avoided the wicket area.Build the new plan around the old Geelong Highway not Moorabool st.

 

[Max Milburn]

It's absolutely a hinderance - to opposition clubs.
Long may it continue...

 

[Boxhead_31]

Where was all this talk about where we played being a benefit or hinderance 2004/2011?
If you have a good game plan, it doesn't matter where you play it will hold up

 

[00VicWard001]

WCE changed grounds to an MCG-sized one. What happened there?

I'm curious if it would have been a significant difference time and money-wise to make GMHBA to be MCG dimensions when they renovated it.

 

[JohnZ]

I'm curious if it would have been a significant difference time and money-wise to make GMHBA to be MCG dimensions when they renovated it.

Wouldve meant rebuilding all at once and there was no political will for that whem they could spread it over 5 or 6 election cycles.

 

[Gee Class Loco]

For a guy who has too much time on his hands at work...

Geelong Football Clubs Golden ERA of 2007-11 Record @MCG and Interstate.
Our Premiership years.
21-1 @MCG.
15-4 Interstate. (5-1 in SA and 4-1 in WA, Gabba 2-1, ANZ 2-0, SCG 1-0, Aurora 0-1, Metricon 1-0).

10-7 in 2008 & 2010.
8-2 Interstate. (2-1 in SA and 3-1 in WA. 3-0 in QLD/NSW).

Over 5 years
31-8 @MCG.
23-6 Interstate.

Since 2012
22-22 @MCG.
18-17-1 Interstate
4-5 @SA.
3-6 WA.
5-4-1 @NSW.
6-2 @QLD.

What it tells me is if you have a champion team full of AA calibre players all over the park you can win everywhere and often.
I think people tend to forget what sort of team we had over that period of 5 years one might say 7 years(6 Prelims).
For me we had two eras 1989-1995 and 2007-11 which yielded 8 Grand final appearances for 3 Flags.
Oh for those who are a little older we had a ripping two years 80-81 that stopped short in two narrow Prelim final losses under the Great Billy Goggin.
For what it's worth. We should of had 4 Cups if not 5.

Anyways Boys read into it what you want.

Stick fat fellas the glass is half full not half empty as some would like you to believe.
We have a great young group of boys coming through and with a solid 4-5 youngsters coming this year we shall be in a good position going ahead.
With a healthy Cocky SavRat Stanley and bringing in LukeyDahl we are still in the thick of it.

Cheers & GO CATTERS!!

 

[Isaac Norm Smith]

Where was all this talk about where we played being a benefit or hinderance 2004/2011?
If you have a good game plan, it doesn't matter where you play it will hold up

And having the players to carry out that game plan.

 

[Isaac Norm Smith]

For a guy who has too much time on his hands at work...

Geelong Football Clubs Golden ERA of 2007-11 Record @MCG and Interstate.
Our Premiership years.
21-1 @MCG.
15-4 Interstate. (5-1 in SA and 4-1 in WA, Gabba 2-1, ANZ 2-0, SCG 1-0, Aurora 0-1, Metricon 1-0).

10-7 in 2008 & 2010.
8-2 Interstate. (2-1 in SA and 3-1 in WA. 3-0 in QLD/NSW).

Over 5 years
31-8 @MCG.
23-6 Interstate.

Since 2012
22-22 @MCG.
18-17-1 Interstate
4-5 @SA.
3-6 WA.
5-4-1 @NSW.
6-2 @QLD.

What it tells me is if you have a champion team full of AA calibre players all over the park you can win everywhere and often.
I think people tend to forget what sort of team we had over that period of 5 years one might say 7 years(6 Prelims).
For me we had two eras 1989-1995 and 2007-11 which yielded 8 Grand final appearances for 3 Flags.
Oh for those who are a little older we had a ripping two years 80-81 that stopped short in two narrow Prelim final losses under the Great Billy Goggin.
For what it's worth. We should of had 4 Cups if not 5.

Anyways Boys read into it what you want.

Stick fat fellas the glass is half full not half empty as some would like you to believe.
We have a great young group of boys coming through and with a solid 4-5 youngsters coming this year we shall be in a good position going ahead.
With a healthy Cocky SavRat Stanley and bringing in LukeyDahl we are still in the thick of it.

Cheers & GO CATTERS!!

Great post

 

[Sttew]

Perhaps it is a hindrance only when our team is average, in that it gives us an artificial "leg-up", making Geelong look better because we are all but guaranteed home wins. The 2007-2011 team could win anywhere and everywhere.

The other factor linked to the above is the ground shape. I heard commentators saying the new ground in Perth has helped WCE (but why not FREO?) in that the shape is closer to the MCG than the old, narrow Subiaco ground

 

[cynical]

It doesn’t matter if we get more wins if that doesn’t translate to wins in finals at the G. Just means we look ordinary getting turfed out all the time when our prowess has been overinflated/estimated by wins at K.Park.

Of course if we cant win at the MCG extra wins are meaningless.

But when the side can win at the MCG then extra wins can help get an advantage by locking up a top 4 spot.

We shouldn't play a style/structures that suit KP, it should suit the MCG regardless of where we play.

 

[Max Milburn]

Of course if we cant win at the MCG extra wins are meaningless.

But when the side can win at the MCG then extra wins can help get an advantage by locking up a top 4 spot.

We shouldn't play a style/structures that suit KP, it should suit the MCG regardless of where we play.

What style should we play at SCG and Etihad?

 

[Gee Class Loco]

Of course if we cant win at the MCG extra wins are meaningless.

But when the side can win at the MCG then extra wins can help get an advantage by locking up a top 4 spot.

We shouldn't play a style/structures that suit KP, it should suit the MCG regardless of where we play.

So enlighten me... what sort of style do we play??
You can start with our Midfield set up offensive then defensive and then the forward half followed by the back half set ups.
Include the defensive set ups with 6 back, 7 back and 7 back with wings back... u can even include when we go to a prevent score/crowd the 50 set up when the Ruck and the half forwards come down to the defensive 60m just outside the arc....
In all seriousness we play pretty much exactly what other teams play just with a twerk or two depending our own personal strengths and weaknesses.
But if you think a different style works better let us all know... with why and how it will work.
Include the players that can or cant play that said system.
Their strengths and weaknesses.
How it works for or against various opponents as we all know some teams play different styles that expose other systems really well and not vs others.

Anyhow look forward to what you have to offer.

Cheers & GO CATTERS!!!

 

[Reg Hickey]

What is very clear is that our defensive structure works really well on the narrow KP, but in the last couple of years has been exposed on the much wider MCG.

Is that because of our home ground? Well, yes, in the sense that we play 7-8 games there a year, and we quite rightly want it to be a fortress. So we need our game plan to work really well there. But just because our home ground is narrow doesn't mean we shouldn't be developing defensive structures that also hold up on the much wider MCG. That for me is where the problem is. It seems to me that we try to play a similar way defensively on both grounds but when our zone is spread across the 'G we leave way too much space in between and even average kicking teams find it too easy to hit up targets coming out of defence.

BTW I don't think this is the only problem with our defensive game plan - on the wider ground I also don't think our players work hard enough to pressure either the distributor or the receiver. We seem happy to repeatedly give up possession and try to reset downfield rather than going for the spoil, intercept or pressure on the kicker, all of which we do well at KP when we're on song. That's why I think we need the likes of Narkle and Jones to play as often as possible and be given aggressive F50 tackle KPIs, and also why I think Dahlhouse could be a really good pick up for us. I'm hoping Rohan can help us with F50 pressure too as he should be that type of player even though his historical stats don't necessarily suggest it.

I think that in 2007-11 we didn't necessarily have a better plan, but it was a different game back then - zone defence was just coming into use (remember Clarko's Cluster?) and was much less developed than it is now. We also compensated for it with one of the best backlines the game has seen, as well as a dominant midfield, and those guys simply didn't allow the opposition to run the ball out of our defence too easily too often.

 

[cynical]

So enlighten me... what sort of style do we play??
You can start with our Midfield set up offensive then defensive and then the forward half followed by the back half set ups.
Include the defensive set ups with 6 back, 7 back and 7 back with wings back... u can even include when we go to a prevent score/crowd the 50 set up when the Ruck and the half forwards come down to the defensive 60m just outside the arc....
In all seriousness we play pretty much exactly what other teams play just with a twerk or two depending our own personal strengths and weaknesses.
But if you think a different style works better let us all know... with why and how it will work.
Include the players that can or cant play that said system.
Their strengths and weaknesses.
How it works for or against various opponents as we all know some teams play different styles that expose other systems really well and not vs others.

Anyhow look forward to what you have to offer.

Cheers & GO CATTERS!!!

Pretty obvious what we do.

We play an overly tall back line and a big midfield to out muscle the opposition. Due to the ground being so narrow the game becomes very contested where poorly skilled players like Menegola can win the ball and kick long to Hawkins. The opposition aren't used to the narrow ground so they dont have space to move and end up bombing it straight to our defenders.

Works great on a narrow ground but on a bigger ground the more skillful teams use the extra space to run and carry and hit up players on the move.

We also move the ball slowly because its low risk and it allows our poorly skilled players not to make as many errors (doesn't prepare them well for finals).

Our slow and poorly skilled team gets found out when teams bring pressure and dont just bomb it.

Solution is easy play more optimal structures. 2KPDs, 2 Mediums, 2 Smalls, the smalls and mediums must be good offensively. Someone needs to run and carry, someone needs to be an elite kick. Would be preferable to have a tall who can kick and dispose under pressure. I'd replace Kolo with a more skillful tall.

Midfield needs 2 way runners and more outside players. Danger, Joel, Scooter and Menegola are all inside players with average skills. Joel isn't bad with short kicks but he is 30 now. The midfield is old and cooked needs, young blood badly.

Forwards need 2 tall targets, tall being KPF not Menzel/Danger/Crameri. If there isnt a good 2nd tall then we should play 2 rucks (need 2 decent rucks anyway)

A 3rd tall which is a Menzel type player is also needed. One of the 2nd/3rd tall needs to play a Mitch Brown lead up forward role to create space.

Everything about our game style, structures and selection is low risk. It's why we consistently make finals and then get smashed.

When you add more skillful outside players you are increasing the risk and variance. It's why teams like the Bulldogs and the Bombers are so inconsistent.

When things go wrong those sides cop a lot of beltings, when they get it right they win flags.

 

[Pollywaffle]

Why can't we adjust game styles to suit ground dimensions? Or did we try that?
Hard to tell..
I think our home ground advantage does breed some complacency and an overinflated estimate of how good we really are.

 

[Spazz Cat]

Pretty obvious what we do.

We play an overly tall back line and a big midfield to out muscle the opposition. Due to the ground being so narrow the game becomes very contested where poorly skilled players like Menegola can win the ball and kick long to Hawkins. The opposition aren't used to the narrow ground so they dont have space to move and end up bombing it straight to our defenders.

Works great on a narrow ground but on a bigger ground the more skillful teams use the extra space to run and carry and hit up players on the move.

We also move the ball slowly because its low risk and it allows our poorly skilled players not to make as many errors (doesn't prepare them well for finals).

Our slow and poorly skilled team gets found out when teams bring pressure and dont just bomb it.

Solution is easy play more optimal structures. 2KPDs, 2 Mediums, 2 Smalls, the smalls and mediums must be good offensively. Someone needs to run and carry, someone needs to be an elite kick. Would be preferable to have a tall who can kick and dispose under pressure. I'd replace Kolo with a more skillful tall.

Midfield needs 2 way runners and more outside players. Danger, Joel, Scooter and Menegola are all inside players with average skills. Joel isn't bad with short kicks but he is 30 now. The midfield is old and cooked needs, young blood badly.

Forwards need 2 tall targets, tall being KPF not Menzel/Danger/Crameri. If there isnt a good 2nd tall then we should play 2 rucks (need 2 decent rucks anyway)

A 3rd tall which is a Menzel type player is also needed. One of the 2nd/3rd tall needs to play a Mitch Brown lead up forward role to create space.

Everything about our game style, structures and selection is low risk. It's why we consistently make finals and then get smashed.

When you add more skillful outside players you are increasing the risk and variance. It's why teams like the Bulldogs and the Bombers are so inconsistent.

When things go wrong those sides cop a lot of beltings, when they get it right they win flags.

Excellent post man. I've thought this for a long time. All of it. Every single bit of it is genius.
I remember last year actually copping crap because I said we'd beat Richmond at KP when no-one gave us a chance.
To me it was obvious. We structure up perfectly to stifle any team at KP. Anyone!
Funnily enough I copped even more crap on the Game Day thread before the Richmond final cause I thought we were going to lose when we were favourites.
Once again obvious. That structure is just not adaptable to the MCG.
Some of us have known it for ages.

 

[Gee Class Loco]

Pretty obvious what we do.

We play an overly tall back line and a big midfield to out muscle the opposition. Due to the ground being so narrow the game becomes very contested where poorly skilled players like Menegola can win the ball and kick long to Hawkins. The opposition aren't used to the narrow ground so they dont have space to move and end up bombing it straight to our defenders.

Works great on a narrow ground but on a bigger ground the more skillful teams use the extra space to run and carry and hit up players on the move.

We also move the ball slowly because its low risk and it allows our poorly skilled players not to make as many errors (doesn't prepare them well for finals).

Our slow and poorly skilled team gets found out when teams bring pressure and dont just bomb it.

Solution is easy play more optimal structures. 2KPDs, 2 Mediums, 2 Smalls, the smalls and mediums must be good offensively. Someone needs to run and carry, someone needs to be an elite kick. Would be preferable to have a tall who can kick and dispose under pressure. I'd replace Kolo with a more skillful tall.

Midfield needs 2 way runners and more outside players. Danger, Joel, Scooter and Menegola are all inside players with average skills. Joel isn't bad with short kicks but he is 30 now. The midfield is old and cooked needs, young blood badly.

Forwards need 2 tall targets, tall being KPF not Menzel/Danger/Crameri. If there isnt a good 2nd tall then we should play 2 rucks (need 2 decent rucks anyway)

A 3rd tall which is a Menzel type player is also needed. One of the 2nd/3rd tall needs to play a Mitch Brown lead up forward role to create space.

Everything about our game style, structures and selection is low risk. It's why we consistently make finals and then get smashed.

When you add more skillful outside players you are increasing the risk and variance. It's why teams like the Bulldogs and the Bombers are so inconsistent.

When things go wrong those sides cop a lot of beltings, when they get it right they win flags.

Like we did in our Dynasty Years ???

Overly tall backs like Harley, Lonergan, Taylor, Mackie, Scarlett & Milburn ???
Big midfeild/contested footy/poorly skilled like Ling, Bartel, Chapman, StevieJ, Corey & Kelly ???
Kicking it long to Mooney, Pods, NatAblett, Hawkins & Ottens ???
Those years we dominated the G as well as all other grounds around the country.
Because we were a GREAT team. Full of Bigs, Small, Mids with grunt, brawn, toughness, skills and speed.
Even in those years we got beaten badly as 08 GF & 10 PF are prime examples.


There seems to be common theme here, which is more about our players skills & attributes and players we will need or looking for to bring into the side.
SKILLS SKILLS SKILLS SKILLS

No argument from the skills perspective but not at all on the system. As the system did can & does work on every ground.
Whats between the ears of a lot of our players is to be questioned more so when pressure is applied. As they can absorb it one week and wilt the next.

At the end of the day we are a just an average side that have played well above what i expected.
We are not a Champion team full of 6,7 or 8 or so All Australian players with a mix of brawn speed and skills... Oh a AA Ruckman to boot.
For Scott & Co to keep us in the hunt for so long is either the system/scheme he has implemented with what he has at his disposal.
Those at his disposal are probably the ones that need the microscope.

Anyway...
Cheers & GO CATTERS!!

 

[Spazz Cat]

Like we did in our Dynasty Years ???

Overly tall backs like Harley, Lonergan, Taylor, Mackie, Scarlett & Milburn ???
Big midfeild/contested footy/poorly skilled like Ling, Bartel, Chapman, StevieJ, Corey & Kelly ???
Kicking it long to Mooney, Pods, NatAblett, Hawkins & Ottens ???
Those years we dominated the G as well as all other grounds around the country.
Because we were a GREAT team. Full of Bigs, Small, Mids with grunt, brawn, toughness, skills and speed.
Even in those years we got beaten badly as 08 GF & 10 PF are prime examples.


There seems to be common theme here, which is more about our players skills & attributes and players we will need or looking for to bring into the side.
SKILLS SKILLS SKILLS SKILLS

No argument from the skills perspective but not at all on the system. As the system did can & does work on every ground.
Whats between the ears of a lot of our players is to be questioned more so when pressure is applied. As they can absorb it one week and wilt the next.

At the end of the day we are a just an average side that have played well above what i expected.
We are not a Champion team full of 6,7 or 8 or so All Australian players with a mix of brawn speed and skills... Oh a AA Ruckman to boot.
For Scott & Co to keep us in the hunt for so long is either the system/scheme he has implemented with what he has at his disposal.
Those at his disposal are probably the ones that need the microscope.

Anyway...
Cheers & GO CATTERS!!

All those backs never played together at one time.
Scarlett was also a once in a lifetime player who could play tall, small and provide more drive than a midfielder.
The game has also changed a bit in the 7 years since it last worked for us.
I think you missed the point of the post for the rest.

 

[Stocks_go_Up]

Anyone who STILL can't see that our game plan is absolute shit away from home is on another planet... It's been that way for years and Scott has not changed it. The only time we get to see a glimpse of it is when the players get let off the hook on their own accord and we play a few great quarters. Then its back to defensive slow turn the ball over with shit skills tactics. We don't run hard enough either. Midfielders go back to what they have been told and how to setup which is absolutely shit. Blind freddy can see our stoppage setup is terrible - having a useless ruckman who changes every week doesn't help either but the club has also refused to fix that problem over the past 6-7 years. The reality is Scott is so stubborn he seriously thinks our game plan only needs a few tweaks... He probably came out of the Melbourne loss thinking we were close to winning with a few little changes. Delusion at its finest.

 

[Gee Class Loco]

All those backs never played together at one time.
Scarlett was also a once in a lifetime player who could play tall, small and provide more drive than a midfielder.
The game has also changed a bit in the 7 years since it last worked for us.
I think you missed the point of the post for the rest.

Yes they did actually... in 2008. Went 21-1 only to lose the GF.
Yes he was.
Yes it has changed a bit. A bit meaning just a tad. Same principals still apply (Skills,Tackling,Pressure)
Nope. Systems work if you can execute. If you can not execute the basics no system will EVER work.
SKILLS SKILLS & SKILLS. Kicking, hand balling, marking, running, tackling & pressure is still the same.

Cheers Boys.

 

[bombersboy]

For a guy who has too much time on his hands at work...

Geelong Football Clubs Golden ERA of 2007-11 Record @MCG and Interstate.
Our Premiership years.
21-1 @MCG.
15-4 Interstate. (5-1 in SA and 4-1 in WA, Gabba 2-1, ANZ 2-0, SCG 1-0, Aurora 0-1, Metricon 1-0).

10-7 in 2008 & 2010.
8-2 Interstate. (2-1 in SA and 3-1 in WA. 3-0 in QLD/NSW).

Over 5 years
31-8 @MCG.
23-6 Interstate.

Since 2012
22-22 @MCG.
18-17-1 Interstate
4-5 @SA.
3-6 WA.
5-4-1 @NSW.
6-2 @QLD.

What it tells me is if you have a champion team full of AA calibre players all over the park you can win everywhere and often.
I think people tend to forget what sort of team we had over that period of 5 years one might say 7 years(6 Prelims).
For me we had two eras 1989-1995 and 2007-11 which yielded 8 Grand final appearances for 3 Flags.
Oh for those who are a little older we had a ripping two years 80-81 that stopped short in two narrow Prelim final losses under the Great Billy Goggin.
For what it's worth. We should of had 4 Cups if not 5.

Anyways Boys read into it what you want.

Stick fat fellas the glass is half full not half empty as some would like you to believe.
We have a great young group of boys coming through and with a solid 4-5 youngsters coming this year we shall be in a good position going ahead.
With a healthy Cocky SavRat Stanley and bringing in LukeyDahl we are still in the thick of it.

Cheers & GO CATTERS!!

Agree wholeheartedly. We were so spoiled 2007-2011. Anytime you have a side that has 7-8 genuine All Australians you know you are in a a golden period. Plus our bottom 6 were genuinely good footballers that played well in finals.

 

[Spazz Cat]

Yes they did actually... in 2008. Went 21-1 only to lose the GF.
Yes he was.
Yes it has changed a bit. A bit meaning just a tad. Same principals still apply (Skills,Tackling,Pressure)
Nope. Systems work if you can execute. If you can not execute the basics no system will EVER work.
SKILLS SKILLS & SKILLS. Kicking, hand balling, marking, running, tackling & pressure is still the same.

Cheers Boys.

Lonegan never played in the backline in 08.
I agree with you on the skills but we'll never see a team like that again in our lifetime.
I agree we need better kicking skills but structure is key now.
Can't expect to put a bunch of tall blokes in the backline and excpect the opposition to keep kicking it to you.
Players will just run and find space.

 

[cynical]

Like we did in our Dynasty Years ???

Overly tall backs like Harley, Lonergan, Taylor, Mackie, Scarlett & Milburn ???
Big midfeild/contested footy/poorly skilled like Ling, Bartel, Chapman, StevieJ, Corey & Kelly ???
Kicking it long to Mooney, Pods, NatAblett, Hawkins & Ottens ???
Those years we dominated the G as well as all other grounds around the country.
Because we were a GREAT team. Full of Bigs, Small, Mids with grunt, brawn, toughness, skills and speed.
Even in those years we got beaten badly as 08 GF & 10 PF are prime examples.


There seems to be common theme here, which is more about our players skills & attributes and players we will need or looking for to bring into the side.
SKILLS SKILLS SKILLS SKILLS

No argument from the skills perspective but not at all on the system. As the system did can & does work on every ground.
Whats between the ears of a lot of our players is to be questioned more so when pressure is applied. As they can absorb it one week and wilt the next.

At the end of the day we are a just an average side that have played well above what i expected.
We are not a Champion team full of 6,7 or 8 or so All Australian players with a mix of brawn speed and skills... Oh a AA Ruckman to boot.
For Scott & Co to keep us in the hunt for so long is either the system/scheme he has implemented with what he has at his disposal.
Those at his disposal are probably the ones that need the microscope.

Anyway...
Cheers & GO CATTERS!!

Milburn wasn't a tall. Mackie and Scarlett were exceptionally skilled.

You can go against optimal structures sometimes if you have very talented players (eg a highly skilled tall).

I dont know what your point is, players have different attributes, you need a combination of these attributes to have a well balanced side.

It's hardly worth me talking about it unless you understand what game theory is and how it applies to AFL.