Analysis Is Rocky the Right Man for the Job?

Is Rocky the Right Man for the Job?

  • Yes

    Votes: 68 28.3%

  • No

    Votes: 139 57.9%

  • I'm not sure...

    Votes: 33 13.8%
  • Total voters
    240

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James North said:
And/or the club, I'd say.
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You would have to assume fagan got some sort of briefing from the old administration on the club/players.

That being said I recently read something about Paul Roos being lied to about just how dire a state the demons were in when he took over.

You never really hear much about AFL coach changes, is there a hand over of sorts when a new team comes in? Or is it basically a go find out for yourself situation.
 
winged1 said:
I don't think **** would consider Rocky an outsider, he is still clearly an important part of the team this year. As others have said it benefits everyone if he has a great season. But doesn't mean he will be here next year.

As for **** defence of Rocky, I don't know what people expect him to say. The question was asked because clearly there was an issue , the answer was truthful in the sense that Rocky had trained the house down. But he is always going to tow the correct pr line. And for those saying what was said went past just answering the question, well Fagan does like to talk...a lot.
Click to expand...

Don't quite understand what point you are making here.

He didn't just say he was training well, he said "he's been a leader around the club and been very supportive of me" and praised his character. Whether that went past answering the question or not, not very interested in. I don't think it means he will be captain, I think it means what he said - he has a blank slate and anything that happened in the past is forgotten about.

If he considers him important, not an outsider, gives him a clean slate, is showing good signs and training the house down, and (if) he has a good year as hoped, why would he not be here next year?
 
CarterS said:
Don't quite understand what point you are making here.

He didn't just say he was training well, he said "he's been a leader around the club and been very supportive of me" and praised his character. Whether that went past answering the question or not, not very interested in. I don't think it means he will be captain, I think it means what he said - he has a blank slate and anything that happened in the past is forgotten about.

If he considers him important, not an outsider, gives him a clean slate, is showing good signs and training the house down, and (if) he has a good year as hoped, why would he not be here next year?
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Well if he isn't captain and we are still a number of years from finals, does he want to be here? Both parties wanted a parting of the ways last year, but both parties are going to want to go forward together for him to stay.

Can we or will we pay him what he wants?

I hope Rocky does have a great year as a productive team player, on and off the field. That can only be a good thing for the Lions.

But a lot needs to go right for him to be here next year. But is it possible...sure.
 

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TheBrownDog said:
Interesting but not exactly surprising that some people prioritise their desire to witness a hypothetical "meltdown" on an Internet forum over the needs of the team.
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I've not really taken part in this conversation recently, because it's not exactly been a fruitful one in the past for those of us trying to find out what's going on. You seem to have contacts around the place, which is great. But for most of us, we only have forums and club releases for information. And to let you know what's going on in the minds of us not in the know (and as someone who's been reasonably interested in the Rocky situation), all I've heard is:
- He put a moderately inappropriate comment on twitter when joking with his mates. Not a smart move, but it was a pretty huge media beat up given that all he said was "I'd rank her a 3/10". That's hardly a Lewinski-size sex scandal.
- He talked to his manager, who fired off at the club for not backing him up enough in the media.
- He was pretty clearly frustrated at several times during the year. He was frustrated when he couldn't get on the park due to injuries, he was frustrated with losses, and it appeared to me that he took issue with a bit of the coaching/gameplan side of things... Him and the club fronted up to each other a couple of times, but I don't know whether that was issues with Leppa, or Swanny, or Lambose, or what any of it entailed.
- He was obviously on the table for trade bait and nothing eventuated. This indicates that there's probably something behind the scenes that made him unattractive to other clubs, but we also don't know whether any lowball offers were made and shot down. The club may have been willing to part ways at X compensation, but didn't get it.
- Fagan has now told us that he had a word with Rocky early on and told him what rumours were swirling around the clublands. So there were whispers making their way around.

Beyond that, we've had media making vague comments with no particulars, and we've had forum comments with vague comments and no particulars. In fact, about all I've got off the forum RE the Rocky situation is "Trust me, he's a bad influence", "Trust me, he's not going to be at the club next year" and "Trust me, he's not going to be captain".

I don't know about everyone else, but in my mind, the information above isn't enough to convict. It certainly says that something's going on, but in a year where we sucked, and then fired the coach, I also don't know what was Leppa's fault and what was Rocky's. He may or may not be a bad influence, he may or may not be a good leader, and he may or may not be on his way out the door. I've got no idea, because no one has actually provided information.

I hope that explains why some posters would be hoping he gets reappointed captain. Not to witness a meltdown "over the needs of the team" (because if he gets appointed captain, that would be the club's opinion of what's best for the team), but because it can also be frustrating having a few people on here saying "there's a lot going on behind the scenes, but I'm just going to make vague statements... But you should trust me - he's not going to be captain".
 
spotthedog1 said:
I've not really taken part in this conversation recently, because it's not exactly been a fruitful one in the past for those of us trying to find out what's going on. You seem to have contacts around the place, which is great. But for most of us, we only have forums and club releases for information. And to let you know what's going on in the minds of us not in the know (and as someone who's been reasonably interested in the Rocky situation), all I've heard is:
- He put a moderately inappropriate comment on twitter when joking with his mates. Not a smart move, but it was a pretty huge media beat up given that all he said was "I'd rank her a 3/10". That's hardly a Lewinski-size sex scandal.
- He talked to his manager, who fired off at the club for not backing him up enough in the media.
- He was pretty clearly frustrated at several times during the year. He was frustrated when he couldn't get on the park due to injuries, he was frustrated with losses, and it appeared to me that he took issue with a bit of the coaching/gameplan side of things... Him and the club fronted up to each other a couple of times, but I don't know whether that was issues with Leppa, or Swanny, or Lambose, or what any of it entailed.
- He was obviously on the table for trade bait and nothing eventuated. This indicates that there's probably something behind the scenes that made him unattractive to other clubs, but we also don't know whether any lowball offers were made and shot down. The club may have been willing to part ways at X compensation, but didn't get it.
- Fagan has now told us that he had a word with Rocky early on and told him what rumours were swirling around the clublands. So there were whispers making their way around.

Beyond that, we've had media making vague comments with no particulars, and we've had forum comments with vague comments and no particulars. In fact, about all I've got off the forum RE the Rocky situation is "Trust me, he's a bad influence", "Trust me, he's not going to be at the club next year" and "Trust me, he's not going to be captain".

I don't know about everyone else, but in my mind, the information above isn't enough to convict. It certainly says that something's going on, but in a year where we sucked, and then fired the coach, I also don't know what was Leppa's fault and what was Rocky's. He may or may not be a bad influence, he may or may not be a good leader, and he may or may not be on his way out the door. I've got no idea, because no one has actually provided information.

I hope that explains why some posters would be hoping he gets reappointed captain. Not to witness a meltdown "over the needs of the team" (because if he gets appointed captain, that would be the club's opinion of what's best for the team), but because it can also be frustrating having a few people on here saying "there's a lot going on behind the scenes, but I'm just going to make vague statements... But you should trust me - he's not going to be captain".
Click to expand...
Well you know what they say.
Never trust a man who says 'trust me'.
 
James North said:
And/or the club, I'd say.
Click to expand...

Yeah, he did those interviews when he started, and a fair bit of time since to drill down into any details and get all perspectives on whatever may have happened.
 
Bucking Beads said:
I think the club as a whole has lifted it's standards. We are a much more professional club this year. It's embarrassing how unprofessional we have been in recent years.
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You could tell our professionalism wasn't at the same level as other clubs with the amount of "no show" performances our team have put up over the past 3 or 4 seasons.

Sure it might happen once or twice in a season. But i swear we have been getting 4 to 5 of those "no show" performances each year.

There have been just too many of them for it to be a coincidence. Hopefully the supposed new level of professionalism can raise those lows to a less embarrassing performance level then what they have been getting and also reduce the frequency of them too.
 
We wanted to trade our captain and one of only a few A graders at our club while under contract. That should be enough for most people.

He didn't attract much interest from clubs. That should be enough for everybody to prove there are significant off field issues.
 
spotthedog1 said:
I've not really taken part in this conversation recently, because it's not exactly been a fruitful one in the past for those of us trying to find out what's going on. You seem to have contacts around the place, which is great. But for most of us, we only have forums and club releases for information. And to let you know what's going on in the minds of us not in the know (and as someone who's been reasonably interested in the Rocky situation), all I've heard is:
- He put a moderately inappropriate comment on twitter when joking with his mates. Not a smart move, but it was a pretty huge media beat up given that all he said was "I'd rank her a 3/10". That's hardly a Lewinski-size sex scandal.
- He talked to his manager, who fired off at the club for not backing him up enough in the media.
- He was pretty clearly frustrated at several times during the year. He was frustrated when he couldn't get on the park due to injuries, he was frustrated with losses, and it appeared to me that he took issue with a bit of the coaching/gameplan side of things... Him and the club fronted up to each other a couple of times, but I don't know whether that was issues with Leppa, or Swanny, or Lambose, or what any of it entailed.
- He was obviously on the table for trade bait and nothing eventuated. This indicates that there's probably something behind the scenes that made him unattractive to other clubs, but we also don't know whether any lowball offers were made and shot down. The club may have been willing to part ways at X compensation, but didn't get it.
- Fagan has now told us that he had a word with Rocky early on and told him what rumours were swirling around the clublands. So there were whispers making their way around.

Beyond that, we've had media making vague comments with no particulars, and we've had forum comments with vague comments and no particulars. In fact, about all I've got off the forum RE the Rocky situation is "Trust me, he's a bad influence", "Trust me, he's not going to be at the club next year" and "Trust me, he's not going to be captain".

I don't know about everyone else, but in my mind, the information above isn't enough to convict. It certainly says that something's going on, but in a year where we sucked, and then fired the coach, I also don't know what was Leppa's fault and what was Rocky's. He may or may not be a bad influence, he may or may not be a good leader, and he may or may not be on his way out the door. I've got no idea, because no one has actually provided information.

I hope that explains why some posters would be hoping he gets reappointed captain. Not to witness a meltdown "over the needs of the team" (because if he gets appointed captain, that would be the club's opinion of what's best for the team), but because it can also be frustrating having a few people on here saying "there's a lot going on behind the scenes, but I'm just going to make vague statements... But you should trust me - he's not going to be captain".
Click to expand...

OK, time to reopen that Rockliff thread. Lol.

There have been a few scraps here and there in articles for us uninformed to pick up on. For example here:

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport...d/news-story/b3aa01e46b3944e9212e682e9a7412a6

One player manager with clients at the club said even if Rockliff was not stripped of the captaincy, he would no longer win a leadership vote.

The Courier-Mail has been told some players were not impressed that Rockliff and fellow senior player Pearce Hanley were out drinking on Monday afternoon, hours after the announcement of the sacking of coach Justin Leppitsch.

The club’s official end of season celebrations are today and although there was no edict not to go out on Monday, the disgruntled players thought the decision by the club’s leaders to go out drinking on the day the coach was sacked lacked sensitivity.

Rockliff upset Zorko last year with his abrasive leadership style but the pair have made up.

He was also involved in a physical altercation with teammate Ryan Harwood at a team social outing this season. That was the same day where he had an angry text message exchange with welfare boss Craig Lambert.

Although the matter was dealt with and there was no black mark recorded alongside either players’ names by the administration, it further weakened Rockliff’s credentials as a captain in the eyes of some teammates.

It is understood the Lions’ board were underwhelmed by Rockliff when he presented on Leppitsch last week.

Rockliff no longer has the full support of a playing group that has grown weary of his leadership style.
Click to expand...


The most interesting thing to me was this little snippet from an article last year:

The fall-out from Leppitsch losing the players last year is now they get away with murder.

Whoever coaches next year must set higher standards.

The power the captain wields is ridiculous and must be curtailed.
Click to expand...

I can't remember if that was expanded upon at the time but it would be interesting to hear.

And from memory (maybe wrong) this was the article posted where a few contacts at the club said was on the money, or something.

Rockliff is their best option as captain if they can get him back on track.

At the moment he is setting a bad example.

He wouldn’t get a game at Carlton. The mail is Brendan Bolton has a skinfold rule that is non-negotiable. Rockliff’s are way over.

Losing Jack Redden has been the catalyst for a lot that has gone wrong.

Redden somehow always managed to keep his best mate Rockliff in check. And pushed him at training.

The rest of the leadership group are married or have young families, so with Redden gone Rockliff has hooked-up with fellow bachelor Pearce Hanley.

Other clubs and player managers are talking about their love of the social scene.

Hanley has the ability to be one of the best players in the league.

It is sad to witness his fall this year.
Click to expand...

Anyway, if you look through my posts you will see that I am a huge Rockliff supporter. Just trying to sum up some info. It also must be said that the info in these articles may well be not true, or the truth stretched. Cheers.
 
Last edited:
Whoever is captain this year in all aspects will have to be above reproach.
Unfortunately or fortunately the position of captain in the AFL environment is a very highly scrutinised position and there are plenty of "experts" out there willing to offer their personal rating of the job done free of charge.
The list now looks really good with talented depth, but it's very young depth. For me, that means a leader must lead with patience, must treat others as he wants to be treated, is also professional on and off the field and is inclusive of all.
In my opinion needs to be amongst the best 4 players (or so) on the list.
Must be a clear representation of the core values of the club.
Regardless of ANY players past, those that vote must ask themselves, who is going to lead us in this way?
 
Last edited:
IMO Pearce and Rocky just got totally sick of playing in an uncompetitive side and reacted in an inappropriate manner ie. they got the sulks.

Rocky probably thought the tough love, in your face Luke Hodge type persona was the way to go and it backfired badly.

hopefully with the leading teams process in place everything has been bought out into the open and the players/coaches can be adults about the situation we are in and move on for the betterment of our once great club.

time to wipe the slate clean and let the angst go IMO.
 
CarterS said:
OK, time to reopen that Rockliff thread. Lol.

There have been a few scraps here and there in articles for us uninformed to pick up on. For example here:

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport...d/news-story/b3aa01e46b3944e9212e682e9a7412a6

The most interesting thing to me was this little snippet from an article last year:

I can't remember if that was expanded upon at the time but it would be interesting to hear.

And from memory (maybe wrong) this was the article posted where a few contacts at the club said was on the money, or something.

Anyway, if you look through my posts you will see that I am a huge Rockliff supporter. Just trying to sum up some info. It also must be said that the info in these articles may well be not true, or the truth stretched. Cheers.
Click to expand...
Fair enough mate. That's better information than has been provided in a while. I remember someone asking during trade period what Rocky did wrong and the response was to provide a link to a 100 page thread about Rocky - full of derailments and all sorts of things. Getting a straight answer was impossible.

The articles posted are helpful, but give an idea what I was talking about with vagueness. The second was pointless unspecific journo speculation, the third is is a generic whinge about skinfolds, which it's unsurprising that his weren't top notch given his injuries during the year.

The first is a good bit of info though, and - assuming Andrew Hamilton was telling the truth - tells us that he rubbed a few players the wrong way. Him and Pearce having a beer in the offseason is a bit of an overreach as far as issues go, but possible issues with Lambo, Harwood, and Zorko (who denied any serious clashes in the media) aren't a great sign. For sure, that speaks to a lack of oversight and high frustrations, but as the second article vaguely hints at, there wasn't necessarily a lot of leadership coming from the top - as witnessed by Leppa being shown the door.

What does all this mean for Rocky's captaincy potential this year? No idea. If he's lost the playing group, then of course he won't be captain. But a couple of guys having a whinge about a couple of beers in the offseason doesn't make it fait accompli to me. Nor does a blow-up with Lambo, who isn't there. The Zorko and Harwood things? Who knows. I'm sure Fagan has had a chat with both (and the rest of the playing group), and is getting an idea on what was real, and what was media stirring (and there was plenty of that last year - typical when you've been on the tail of the ladder for 5 years).

What you've posted hasn't filled me with confidence RE Rocky, but also hasn't ruled him out for this year. I know he wasn't super last year - who at the Lions was? - but what was too far, and what was simply showing some passion for the club? Something a few more players could've done with exhibiting last year.
 

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CarterS said:
OK, time to reopen that Rockliff thread. Lol.

There have been a few scraps here and there in articles for us uninformed to pick up on. For example here:

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport...d/news-story/b3aa01e46b3944e9212e682e9a7412a6




The most interesting thing to me was this little snippet from an article last year:



I can't remember if that was expanded upon at the time but it would be interesting to hear.

And from memory (maybe wrong) this was the article posted where a few contacts at the club said was on the money, or something.



Anyway, if you look through my posts you will see that I am a huge Rockliff supporter. Just trying to sum up some info. It also must be said that the info in these articles may well be not true, or the truth stretched. Cheers.
Click to expand...

Hooking up with Pearce !
 
Im hoping this is the first signs of a player who has turned the corner. Is he going to do a complete 180 and become a saint, probably not. He can still be a bit of a tool off field, as long as that side is separate from his life at the club. He probably does need to lose the C for the complete wake up call, but i think the talk of him being traded and the complete silence from other clubs is what spoke to him most. He likes his status as an elite fantasy player, as a club captain and bringing home the big dollars. He got a quick glance at how quickly all that goes away, so i wouldn't be surprised if he does pull his head in a bit.

I have no problem with him keeping a spot in the leadership group if he has earned it this pre season. Sometimes you use the carrot, sometimes you use the stick. He has had the stick, if a leadership spot gives him some reward for effort and keeps pushing him in the right direction then i'm all or it. Best outcome is we get the best out of him and he finishes his career at the club.
 
jackess said:
We wanted to trade our captain and one of only a few A graders at our club while under contract. That should be enough for most people.

He didn't attract much interest from clubs. That should be enough for everybody to prove there are significant off field issues.
Click to expand...

This just makes me want to see him be made captain again for the meltdown on here. A few people getting upset on an in internet forum is well worth seeing how unprofessional the lions look :rolleyes:
 
spotthedog1 said:
Fair enough mate. That's better information than has been provided in a while. I remember someone asking during trade period what Rocky did wrong and the response was to provide a link to a 100 page thread about Rocky - full of derailments and all sorts of things. Getting a straight answer was impossible.
<SNIP>
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Quite possibly me, as I have done so a few times, but make no apology for.
When there is 100 page thread on the subject and people continually ask "So, what's up with Tom", the answers (and arguments are going to get very repetitive. Many have gone over and over it, as well as the reasons why no further detail is available. Reading 100 pages of old thread would be tedious, but so would a weekly debate on the same subject every time someone asks the question.
spotthedog1 said:
I've not really taken part in this conversation recently, because it's not exactly been a fruitful one in the past for those of us trying to find out what's going on. You seem to have contacts around the place, which is great. But for most of us, we only have forums and club releases for information.
<SNIP>
I hope that explains why some posters would be hoping he gets reappointed captain. Not to witness a meltdown "over the needs of the team" (because if he gets appointed captain, that would be the club's opinion of what's best for the team), but because it can also be frustrating having a few people on here saying "there's a lot going on behind the scenes, but I'm just going to make vague statements... But you should trust me - he's not going to be captain".
Click to expand...
That is true, and is also frustrating when those who don't know, choose to ignore or dismiss comments by some other posters (particularly when it is well established that said posters do have some inside knowledge). People to choose to believe who and what they want and others can or choose to provide how much detail or evidence is passed on.
The reader can only make up their own mind based on the details provided and the poster providing those details or comments, no different to any other walk of life. We all make assessments on the reliability or value of others' comments & opinions.

Back to that 100 page thread, there are more comments and opinions than those you've listed, but the conversation has already been had and I reckon we wait and see who is in the leadership group so we can make a new thread guessing if Tom stays, goes and which club gets him for how much.
 
CarterS said:
Doesn't impact his loyalty to the club at all, for me. Perfectly normal in pro sports to test yourself on the market. Especially considering the circumstances. Besides, was it him who shopped himself around or the club?
Click to expand...

Even when you're contracted?
 
Kevvo said:
Is it though?

You can test your worth and still be a professional player for your club, but I don't think that's consistent with saying he 'bleeds Brisbane'.
Click to expand...

Fair. Maybe at the start of 2016 it would have been fair to say he bleeds Brisbane and there's been a bit of a breakdown. But it is on the way to being fixed I hope.
 
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