It's time Usman

[Topkent]

Between 2000 and 2011 (katich's entire career I think) 16 test batsmen had 4000+ runs at average higher than 50. The decades either side only 5 batsmen did.
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/...for-batting-in-test-cricket-s-history-1378695

Usman would have higher average in Katich's era..

What would he have averaged in that era then if you're so sure?

 

[Bedi]

So one bloke whos career bowling average is 31. What a stacked lineup

Think you'll find his average is much lower on that particular ground

 

[Cleavy]

Probable move into the media.

Our opening partnerships do having a liking to gravitate to the media

We have and had
Taylor/Slater
Hayden/Langer

Get set for
Warner/Khawaja

refer article from 2023: https://foxtelgroup.com.au/newsroom...clusively-joining-fox-cricket-commentary-team

 

[Topkent]

Think you'll find his average is much lower on that particular ground

27 at that ground. That's good, but again what about the rest of the attack? So one half decent test bowler mind you the double century came in a game Australia declared for 6-660 odd. Jayusariya took 3-190

Pretty telling that's the only century he's scored in years

 

[kickazz]

Don't mind him sharing his perspective. Some things he's blaming on racism like being percieved as a lazy fielder are incorrect but some of his remarks are accurate.

Good post.

Too many people in this country can't handle the mirror being held up.

By all means pick apart what he says, the good and bad, the accurate and fanciful.

But the gut reaction of "shit up and be a grateful immigrant" is a bit cowardly I recon.

 

[Bedi]

27 at that ground. That's good, but again what about the rest of the attack? So one half decent test bowler mind you the double century came in a game Australia declared for 6-660 odd. Jayusariya took 3-190

Pretty telling that's the only century he's scored in years

I had it closer to 20, so that series against Aust prob f***** that average a bit.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Don't mind him sharing his perspective. Some things he's blaming on racism like being percieved as a lazy fielder are incorrect but some of his remarks are accurate.

By blaming fair criticism on racism hes simply put a handbrake on meaningful change to fix genuine racial issues that Uz has suffered.

 

[PhatBoy]

Katich played in lollipop era where everybody in the team averaged in the 40's. Scoring runs has become harder. Rogers had a cup of coffee and average is worse.

For starters you can look at Rogers achievements away from Test cricket as a means of assessing his quality.

Just a lazy 25,000 first class runs at 50, in addition to his test career, past his peak, of 2000 runs at 43.

Khawaja has a similar test record and a vastly inferior first class record, averaging 43.

Rogers did only have a short career so any test comparison is fairly pointless anyway but almost all of it was against England, or India who had a good attack in the matches he played; Ashwin, Shami, Kumar, Sharma and Umesh Yadav.
In the 3 tests he played against SA, all away from home, when allegedly it was easier to bat - God only knows what supports this, in terms of SA at least, he made a second innings 107 against Steyn, Philander and Morkel, out of a team total of 220.
He was run out in 2 of the 6 innings he played in the three tests he played in that series.

 

[MisterMarcus]

Good post.

Too many people in this country can't handle the mirror being held up.

By all means pick apart what he says, the good and bad, the accurate and fanciful.

But the gut reaction of "shit up and be a grateful immigrant" is a bit cowardly I recon.

Isn't that what most people have been doing?

 

[Young Redleg]

Katich played in lollipop era where everybody in the team averaged in the 40's. Scoring runs has become harder. Rogers had a cup of coffee and average is worse.

Rogers was only in the test team for two years. If he was able to bat as well as he did at the age of 35-37, who knows how good he could have been if he got games in his prime.

And his average was barely 1 run lower than Khawaja's.

 

[Black Diamond]

I haven't listened to all of the press conference but have heard a lot of the race stuff.

"I am an immigrant. How do you think it makes me feel when people talk about immigration?"

So ****en what? The numbers of people we bring in and the cultures they come from is a totally legitimate public conversation. Khawaja says he has assimilated. Great. Let's have more of that. BTW check which countries our immigrants are arriving from: https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/research-and-statistics/statistics/country-profiles/profiles

Not exactly "white Australia" is it? It hasn't been for along time, and nor should it be.

He complains about being seen as different and talks about his "half Australian, half Pakistani kids". Is he raising his children within Pakistani culture? Doubt it but happy to be told otherwise. He puts his differences on the table constantly (and I'm not talking about trivial things like not drinking, no doubt that has been challenging in Australian culture). Of course pundits will talk about that. He went as far on one occasion to say he was struggling for motivation because of Palestine, and that his kids look like the Palestinian. FMD. Ridiculous comments.

He talks about copping it after the Perth test. Maybe this went too far. But Pat Cummins was criticised for his preparation last summer and also for his climate change comments. In many ways Khawaja is simply not being singled out for special treatment.

Great career. Unlucky at times. Treated harshly by selectors in the early stages. I have not doubt he experience actual racism in the past, and has talked about actual examples in the past. He should not have had to experience that.

I don't need this NBA bull shit in Australian sport. Particularly not cricket.

 

[revo333]

Rogers was only in the test team for two years. If he was able to bat as well as he did at the age of 35-37, who knows how good he could have been if he got games in his prime.

And his average was barely 1 run lower than Khawaja's.

We are seeing this series why batsman scored more runs 20 years ago than in the last 3-4 years.

Quite simply they were better test batsman than what they are now.

 

[Jack Mundy]

For starters you can look at Rogers achievements away from Test cricket as a means of assessing his quality.

Just a lazy 25,000 first class runs at 50, in addition to his test career, past his peak, of 2000 runs at 43.

Khawaja has a similar test record and a vastly inferior first class record, averaging 43.

Rogers did only have a short career so any test comparison is fairly pointless anyway but almost all of it was against England, or India who had a good attack in the matches he played; Ashwin, Shami, Kumar, Sharma and Umesh Yadav.
In the 3 tests he played against SA, all away from home, when allegedly it was easier to bat - God only knows what supports this, in terms of SA at least, he made a second innings 107 against Steyn, Philander and Morkel, out of a team total of 220.
He was run out in 2 of the 6 innings he played in the three tests he played in that series.

Voges was great too for a short while. Usman has a much better record: 88 tests +6000 at 43. You need to compare him to players with longer careers.

 

[kickazz]

Isn't that what most people have been doing?

Yeah most have, especially in here.

A lot of racist shit on the big social media platforms though

 

[Topkent]

Voges was great too for a short while. Usman has a much better record: 88 tests +6000 at 43. You need to compare him to players with longer careers.

Only if you completely ignore context to suit your argument, that was a spot on rebuttal with indisputable facts.
Yours doesn't mean anything

 

[Ohitsthatguy]

Voges was great too for a short while. Usman has a much better record: 88 tests +6000 at 43. You need to compare him to players with longer careers.

Averaged 542 against the West Indies lol

 

[Black Diamond]

Khawaja is clearly better than Voges. Not even close.

He is ahead of Rogers due to performances against a wider array of opponents for longer. Rogers only toured England where he did well, South Africa where he was decent, and the UAE vs Pakistan where he was decent.

 

[PhatBoy]

Voges was great too for a short while. Usman has a much better record: 88 tests +6000 at 43. You need to compare him to players with longer careers.

Voges entire career was played against two repulsive West Indies (he averaged 542 against them over 5 tests) and SL sides, one NZ side that played on two incredibly flat Australian pitches (the one where NZ made 600 at Perth remember???) and two series against England and SA…. Where he averaged 28 and 7 respectively.

His one redeeming effort was a double hundred against Boult and Southee in the return NZ series.

Comparing a batsman who played at 5/6 and had a quarter of his innings as not-outs and nearly 40 per cent of his runs against one very weak opponent to an opener like Rogers seems an even stranger comparison than Rogers/Khawaja

 

[Black Diamond]

Gotta take the good with the bad as a batsman but I recall him getting bowled early by a fair delivery which the umpire incorrectly called no ball in NZ. Voges went on to get 200.

 

[Young Redleg]

Voges entire career was played against two repulsive West Indies (he averaged 542 against them over 5 tests) and SL sides, one NZ side that played on two incredibly flat Australian pitches (the one where NZ made 600 at Perth remember???) and two series against England and SA…. Where he averaged 28 and 7 respectively.

His one redeeming effort was a double hundred against Boult and Southee in the return NZ series.

Comparing a batsman who played at 5/6 and had a quarter of his innings as not-outs and nearly 40 per cent of his runs against one very weak opponent to an opener like Rogers seems an even stranger comparison than Rogers/Khawaja

And even in that innings he was out early on but was recalled due to an incorrect overstepping call by the third umpire.

 

[Daka]

It's amazing how ppl think cricket is so easy...

 

[Jack Mundy]

Voges entire career was played against two repulsive West Indies (he averaged 542 against them over 5 tests) and SL sides, one NZ side that played on two incredibly flat Australian pitches (the one where NZ made 600 at Perth remember???) and two series against England and SA…. Where he averaged 28 and 7 respectively.

His one redeeming effort was a double hundred against Boult and Southee in the return NZ series.

Comparing a batsman who played at 5/6 and had a quarter of his innings as not-outs and nearly 40 per cent of his runs against one very weak opponent to an opener like Rogers seems an even stranger comparison than Rogers/Khawaja

Voges 20 tests, Rogers 25 tests. Usman will play 88. Yeah, weird conversation.

 

[Jack Mundy]

It's amazing how ppl think cricket is so easy...

Usman derangement syndrome

 

[Topkent]

Voges 20 tests, Rogers 25 tests. Usman will play 88. Yeah, weird conversation.

So basically whoever played the most tests regardless of era is the better player? Clutching at the thinnest of straws

 

[PhatBoy]

Voges 20 tests, Rogers 25 tests. Usman will play 88. Yeah, weird conversation.

Rogers was an opener, Khawaja batted 144 of his 157 test innings at opener or 3.

Rogers and Khawaja don’t have any statistical abnormalities or anomalies propping up their record.

The only thing separating them is sample size.

Voges never batted higher than 4 in a test match, and almost all of his innings’ were at 5/6.
His entire record is built around some anomalies put together in relatively friendly circumstances and the only thing he has in common with either player is that he played a low amount of test matches like Rogers, towards the end of his professional career.