Jack Viney

[DNine]

Why? Players, commentators and spectators all seem to disagree with this decision. They've clearly gone too far with this approach.

But we have been saying it for a long time. We are seeing it all change, and get worse and worse and worse. They ARE consistent, they are going in the same direction as they have always been. Some are just waking up, and they are saying NO, but we have no fight. The commentators, players and spectators will talk, but as John Northy said, DON'T THINK DO, this is DON'T TALK, ACT. DON'T GO TO THE GAME, if everyone done it at once, it would spin the AFL's head faster than Lynch's by far. BUT NOOOOOOOOOOO we like it, we turn up every week, we buy there ridiculously priced food, watch there ridiculous rule change, and just whinge. We are seriously piss weak.

I don't go to the AFL matches with my own money. My friend has a membership and reserved seat for his family, and when they don't go, and other friends don't take the tickets, me and my boys go. But I buy nothing, I take my own food, and I do this because I wanted Demetriou OUT. Now he is going, my new rule is, I will not spend a cent that goes toward the AFL, until Demetriou's legacy is squashed. And that is never. I will watch the lemmings cheering on the sides on the free to air tv.

I am one person doing something small, if EVERYONE did it, we could hear the crickets creaking in the stands. And THEN maybe something will be done.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

You're not listening, or reading.

Adelaide fans dont agree with the suspension. The agree with the suspension on the basis of the rules...which it just so happens the Tribunal did too.

Its not right, but neither was Douglas, Thomas or Fyfe.

Get it now? Or do you need me to produce you a picture book so you can figure out that nobody is complaining, we're discussing in a mature manner....well until you got here.

The difference being those players all bumped their opponent - this doesn't mean they should have been suspended but it is a distinction to this case where Viney did not bump Lynch, he attacked a loose ball and after Lynch took possession and Viney realised a collision was inevitable he turned his body to brace for the contact instead of creating a front on collision which likely would have resulted in a worse outcome for both players.

That is the key difference where people come down on this case - those who think he should be suspended under the current rules believe he bumped Lynch, those who believe it is a farce he was even charged do not believe he bumped Lynch but rather braced for the inevitable collision.

 

[Pack Specialist]

Bump can't go. Players need to protect themselves like the Viney situation!!


If Viney had of lowered his shoulder a little would we still be in the same situation? I think probably not

Viney is 175cm tall.
Lynch is 190cm tall.
In the footage Viney is standing whilst Lynch with Georgiou's weight behind him is crashing toward the deck.

Lower his shoulder?

 

[FatChicksRejectMe]

The suspension is a joke and i wont go any further because what already needed to be said by other posters has been said.

But in saying that, i wonder why the AFL is as popular as ever, rating is going through the roof and club memberships are rising.

To me i hate the current game. This year its gotten worse, games are boring, umpiring gets worse every week and now these idiotic suspensions. The game started getting cr@p after 2004 imho

Yet we have experts saying the game has never been better LOL

I wish it was the 90s afl again
'

 

[DD#23]

Why? Players, commentators and spectators all seem to disagree with this decision. They've clearly gone too far with this approach.

because players, commentators and spectators are not doctors...

the truth about concussion will continue to surface and there will be no hiding for anybody. A knock to the head is not just a bad headache, even a mild concussion can potentially lead to life-long ramifications and a significant decrease in quality of life. The AFL have to do something about it, if they don't the game will erode from the grassroots up. It may not be in 5 years, it may not be in 10 years, but if the AFL calls play on for incidents like this we'll see the likes of soccer and basketball overtaking footy at some point, believe me.

 

[DNine]

Can't agree, the ball might have bounced to Viney and he span out of it. Lynch was limited more than Viney because Georgio was on his back pressuring him. There is no reason to conclude if the ball bounced to Viney the same impact would have occurred in reverse, the differences in players and reverse situation would have been significant enough IMO mostly due to Lynch lowering his position. The met each other at an angle, it was not a head on collision even though it was unavoidable, there was a slight angle.

BTW, 99.9% of players ex-players are not saying this.

But what really should happen seriously is go through demonstrations.

Honestly players and coaches need to go to bump clincs and various contested situations to learn about the game. This is really getting embarrassing. Maybe the high mark will come back and throws will be eliminated

have you got those other names for me yet, or are your still yapping and being a lemming. I don't listen to lemmings. Like I said, NO RESPECT. It is only getting embarrassing for the minority of lemmings and the dumb ass AFL, that are disgraceful. ANYTIME you get that list up for me pal, I'll give it a read.

 

[Mr Magic]

The difference being those players all bumped their opponent - this doesn't mean they should have been suspended but it is a distinction to this case where Viney did not bump Lynch, he attacked a loose ball and after Lynch took possession and Viney realised a collision was inevitable he turned his body to brace for the contact instead of creating a front on collision which likely would have resulted in a worse outcome for both players.

That is the key difference where people come down on this case - those who think he should be suspended under the current rules believe he bumped Lynch, those who believe it is a farce he was even charged do not believe he bumped Lynch but rather braced for the inevitable collision.

Yeah but for me it was an inevitable collusion that could have had a different outcome. Viney was not standing still, he was not just bracing, it was not much of a bump, more a brace but IMO he did move slightly upwards when he could have gone slightly lower particularly if tougher

 

[Demonic Ascent]

It's pretty clear how the tribunal has arrived at the decision they did.

The first step is to conclude that an offence occurred. According to the precedent set in several earlier cases, laying a bump that results in a head injury, regardless of whether you touched the head or whether you could have predicted that the subsequent head injury would occur, means that you are automatically guilty of rough conduct. This is the major bone of contention

Again, this is where it should end - because Viney did not lay a bump, he attacked a loose ball and when it bounced towards the opponent coming in the opposite direction he realised it was too late to avoid contact and so turned his body to brace for the collision. If he had elected to bump he would have ran through Lynch instead of propping to absorb the oncoming contact. If you want to see how a bump would look different go and find a Byron Pickett video for an example and see how he runs through the player when laying the bump rather than standing his ground to protect himself like Viney did.

 

[Mr Magic]

have you got those other names for me yet, or are your still yapping and being a lemming. I don't listen to lemmings. Like I said, NO RESPECT. It is only getting embarrassing for the minority of lemmings and the dumb ass AFL, that are disgraceful. ANYTIME you get that list up for me pal, I'll give it a read.

Pal, list the 99.9% and we can sit down and have a chat. Lets do a survey, anonymous of course.


You realise though if Viney gets let off a bump to the head with a shoulder is acceptable now which will be dangerous for players and how players play going forward and how they approach it.


Say Viney gets off, What are players supposed to do now?? I am confused


At the moment you can bump/brace but not hit the head, if Viney gets off, what is the new situation?

 

[DNine]

because players, commentators and spectators are not doctors...

the truth about concussion will continue to surface and there will be no hiding for anybody. A knock to the head is not just a bad headache, even a mild concussion can potentially lead to life-long ramifications and a significant decrease in quality of life. The AFL have to do something about it, if they don't the game will erode from the grassroots up. It may not be in 5 years, it may not be in 10 years, but if the AFL calls play on for incidents like this we'll see the likes of soccer and basketball overtaking footy at some point, believe me.

If that is true, then bring it in quick, I like my ankle tape ripped off straight away, I don't pull softly at it like a girl. Just make it non contact. No run and carry, if you get it, others can't hit you, then take two three steps and get it on. They play indoor footy and AFL 9's, and they are mastering moving a footy around without contact. Lets do it, bring it in. If contact is going to hurt people, and we don't want that to happen, bring it in and stopping pulling at it like a girl. I hate change, but I hate slow change worse. Put us out of our fricken misery.

 

[DNine]

Pal, list the 99.9% and we can sit down and have a chat. Lets do a survey, anonymous of course.


You realise though if Viney gets let off a bump to the head with a shoulder is acceptable now which will be dangerous for players and how players play going forward and how they approach it.


Say Viney gets off, What are players supposed to do now?? I am confused


At the moment you can bump/brace but not hit the head, if Viney gets off, what is the new situation?

I think it is a little easier to name your second player than me roll off all the people I have seen so far. Just your second, humour me.

And if you are confused over them saying intentional bumps that smash a guy's head in like Thomas taking a B line for Reid and the Viney case, you are less capable of having a decent conversation about this than I thought.

 

[Mr Magic]

It's pretty clear how the tribunal has arrived at the decision they did.

The first step is to conclude that an offence occurred. According to the precedent set in several earlier cases, laying a bump that results in a head injury, regardless of whether you touched the head or whether you could have predicted that the subsequent head injury would occur, means that you are automatically guilty of rough conduct. This is the major bone of contention - because it's complete bullshit. It should not be a rule, there shouldn't be a precedent, and this is the part that everyone should be up in arms about. It's a deadset disgrace.

However, if we accept that step, the rest of the tribunal went as would be expected. They rightly determined that the contact was negligent and high, which is all pretty much beyond contention. As for impact, they generally use the severity of the injury to determine the impact. However, in this case, they've (rightly) decided that the severity of injury is not directly attributable to Viney, and so they've downgraded it to medium.

Now, there are two different things happening there. Viney is being held responsible for the head injury occurring, but he is not being held responsible for the severity of the head injury. And that's perfectly reasonable if we accept the first step (which we shouldn't).

From there the formula tells us exactly what his penalty should be.


It's that first part - the rule that states that any head injury that results from a bump is attributable to the person who laid the bump - that needs to be revoked, and revoked NOW. People like Fyfe, Douglas, and now Viney have all found themselves suspended for actions where they did not themselves actually injure the head, but in the course of that play, their opponent's head ended up being injured. That's sport. It's always going to happen from time to time. It's accidental and nobody, from the fans, to the players themselves, want to see it removed from the game. And that's the only way to prevent it. When you are punished for legitimate accidents, the only two options are to either cop a bullshit suspension from time to time, or refuse to ever put yourself in the situation where an accident might occur. And the latter would be the death of AFL football.

It is not clear to me.

First of all laying a bump that causes a head injury even though you do not contact the head and being charged makes absolutely no sense to me at all.

I would have thought contests where shoulder hits the head, of a certain level of contested force means you are in trouble.

IMO if Viney did not hit Lynch's head but Lynch's head rebounded from shoulder to shoulder contact and Lynch's Jaw hit Georgio and copped a broken Jaw both Viney and Georgio would be let off and be called a pure accident

 

[Mr Magic]

I think it is a little easier to name your second player than me roll off all the people I have seen so far. Just your second, humour me.

Why amuse someone playing politics? Go work for Labor or LNP that would amuse me

 

[DNine]

It is not clear to me.

First of all laying a bump that causes a head injury even though you do not contact the head makes absolutely no sense to me at all.

I would have thought contests where shoulder hits the head, of a certain level of contested force means you are in trouble.

IMO if Viney did not hit Lynch's head but Lynch's head rebounded from shoulder contact and Lynch's Jaw hit Georgio and copped a broken Jaw both Viney and Georgio would be let off and be called a pure accident

I have my nappy on, and a dummy in, I can only just remember how to type this last message, then I crawl to my cot. I am as dumb as I can get reading you and other people I would never thought existed. ejnmdas nkiaoj owndkl oanwiden dhjd wei..........._______________________

 

[DNine]

Why amuse someone playing politics? Go work for Labor or LNP that would amuse me

go goo gaga

 

[Mr Magic]

I think it is a little easier to name your second player than me roll off all the people I have seen so far. Just your second, humour me.

And if you are confused over them saying intentional bumps that smash a guy's head in like Thomas taking a B line for Reid and the Viney case, you are less capable of having a decent conversation about this than I thought.

Actually there is a difference between the Viney and Thomas clashes, in terms of severity, but they are similar in that both had shoulder to the head didn't they?

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Yeah but for me it was an inevitable collusion that could have had a different outcome. Viney was not standing still, he was not just bracing, it was not much of a bump, more a brace but IMO he did move slightly upwards when he could have gone slightly lower particularly if tougher

WTF? He was not standing still because he was turning his body to brace for contact. He tucked his arm in and crouched his knees, only way he could've got lower is if he dropped to the ground.

 

[Pack Specialist]

I just pissed a little.

Well done Sir.

 

[Biggy_Boy]

The suspension is a joke and i wont go any further because what already needed to be said by other posters has been said.

But in saying that, i wonder why the AFL is as popular as ever, rating is going through the roof and club memberships are rising.

To me i hate the current game. This year its gotten worse, games are boring, umpiring gets worse every week and now these idiotic suspensions. The game started getting cr@p after 2004 imho

Yet we have experts saying the game has never been better LOL

I wish it was the 90s afl again
'

And your assessment here has nothing to do with the fact that Essendon dropped well out of the eight in 2005 and has struggled to make it back in since, right?

 

[Ron The Bear]

if the AFL calls play on for incidents like this we'll see the likes of soccer and basketball overtaking footy at some point, believe me.

Then let it happen. I don't follow "the #1 sport in the country" just because it's "the #1 sport in the country". Soccer and basketball would remain vastly lesser pastimes in my eyes. As it is they're making ground hand over fist (or rather, footy's coming back to the pack).

 

[Mr Magic]

WTF? He was not standing still because he was turning his body to brace for contact. He tucked his arm in and crouched his knees, only way he could've got lower is if he dropped to the ground.

So you seriously believe Viney had no forward motion and or forward momentum into the Lynch/Georgio impact?

Furthermore, if you look at Viney's steps into the impact do you seriously believe Viney did not slightly raise his torso before the impact?

Are you seriously trying to say Viney's only movement was rotation?

Seriously for Dee supporters you should be arguing for a reduction due to low force, not so much from Viney being next to nothing, but the high force coming from Lynch and Georgio!

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Yep. Wojcinski had eyes for the ball and that's where he was headed. He just braced for impact as he approached Viney, who had no peripheral awareness of what was around him.

That was just as good an example of the game going soft as this Viney decision. You have to take the good with the bad, Melbourne supporters. You come off looking like a bit of a hypocrite, mate.

Haha you clown.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

So you seriously believe Viney had no forward motion and or forward momentum into the Lynch/Georgio impact?

Furthermore, if you look at Viney's steps into the impact do you seriously believe Viney did not slightly raise his torso before the impact?

Are you seriously trying to say Viney's only movement was rotation?

Seriously for Dee supporters you should be arguing for a reduction due to low force, not so much from Viney being next to nothing, but the high force coming from Lynch and Georgio!

Of course he wasn't at a complete standstill - he was running at full pace for a loose ball, he can't just stop on a dime. As the ball bounced sideways Viney followed the path of the ball but almost instantaneously he saw Lynch would take possession before he could so he significantly decelerated to where he was almost at a standstill and turned his body to brace for the impact. He definitely did not raise his elbow or jump into the collision so that his shoulder would hit Lynch in the head. If anything he got down as low as he could, I don't see how could go lower without risking breaking his neck.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

I just read Damian Barrett's piece on the AFL site.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-05-07/vineys-suspension-simple

A simple response to this is, "why is contact to the head in a marking contest not penalised?"

If there is such a problem with heads receiving strong blows, why don't they outlaw all of it? Surely the AFL is condoning head injuries by ignoring knees in the back of heads in marking contests.

And if a player is tackled and a head clash occurs, there is no penalty. Why not? Why only for bumps (which is a legal part of the game) and not for the other things I mentioned?

If they are worried by lawsuits in the future, then why don't players sign a consent form to cover such incidents?

I agree that blatant head high hits should be punished. Accidental ones, (which are still occurring because this stuff just happens) should be just that. They haven't stopped these hits and I'm not even sure they have reduced them. You can stop players jumping into contests, which reduces the chance of high contact being made, but when a player does his best to stay low and avoid high contact - but circumstances beyond his control don't allow this, I don't see the point in 'blaming' or 'punishing' him. It serves no purpose.

Exactly, look at what happened to Toovey last year when he copped a knee in the face from Hawkins.

 

[DD#23]

If that is true, then bring it in quick, I like my ankle tape ripped off straight away, I don't pull softly at it like a girl. Just make it non contact. No run and carry, if you get it, others can't hit you, then take two three steps and get it on. They play indoor footy and AFL 9's, and they are mastering moving a footy around without contact. Lets do it, bring it in. If contact is going to hurt people, and we don't want that to happen, bring it in and stopping pulling at it like a girl. I hate change, but I hate slow change worse. Put us out of our fricken misery.

lol, doesn't have to be that melodramatic. Like I said earlier, contact isn't the issue, its just head contact that is a real concern. Other stuff heals.