Uncontracted Jake Carlisle [traded w/ #23 and #44 for #5, #24 and Craig Bird] pt 2

WolfLikeMe

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#51
Hahaha....

You think it's hilarious eh?

Look at your club, look at mine.

It's genetic.
I dont know whats more surprising. Your football manager contradicting himself in front of so many supporters.... or the fact they all just ate it up to the point one came on to post about it

Did you ever stop and think about what he just said
 

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Jade

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#55
Three and a half years after the trade, as it stands, here's the respective scenarios for each of the three teams when considering the drafted players involved:

Sydney

Lost: Craig Bird and draft position (due to points accrual in securing Callum Mills) and Jade Gresham. Also 'lost' Alex Morgan, but in reality considering they were merely using the points to make sure they could secure Mills it's hard to label it as such.
Gained: The clout to secure Mills, really.

Summary: Effectively Sydney gave up Craig Bird and the opportunity to draft Jade Gresham in exchange for Callum Mills and a smattering of later picks; it made their entire offseason about Mills, which in isolation is enough to say they 'won' their exchanges because they got the only thing they really wanted and didn't lose anything of value to them.

Essendon

Lost: Jake Carlisle, Luke Partington, Tyrone Leonardis
Gained: Craig Bird, Aaron Francis, Alex Morgan

Summary: Let's face it, this trade boils down to a simple exchange. Essendon swapped Jake Carlisle for Aaron Francis and a dozen or so pretty serviceable games from Bird. You'd think Essendon would currently be very comfortable with this exchange.

St Kilda

Lost: Aaron Francis, Alex Morgan
Gained: Jake Carlisle, Jade Gresham

Inclined to think that with Jade Gresham being a best 22 player, this exchange has worked ok for the Saints. Had it been a Francis for Carlisle trade in isolation, I think this would be labelled a bust now.

Trade Summary

No one has come out here a standout winner, and equally, no one has really lost the world.

The amazing part about this trade is that had the picks that ultimately ended up being 28 and 29 not turned in to busts, it could have been HEAVILY skewed one way or another; an entirely possible eventuality at the time when you consider the players that have been taken thereabouts to these picks in recent years such as Zach Merrett, Tim Kelly, Touk Miller.
 

schmuttt

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#58
Ya reckon?

If there was a magic big red button in which was offered to all three clubs, today and today only to reverse the trades, I reckon St Kilda would be the only one to consider it.
Why would they? Carlisles a B+ player when fit and Gresham is already borderline elite as a small forward (Can't really judge how he'll go as a mid). Morgan has done SFA at Essendon and Francis looks very good but needs to put together a good season first.
 

Jade

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#59
Why would they? Carlisles a B+ player when fit and Gresham is already borderline elite as a small forward (Can't really judge how he'll go as a mid). Morgan has done SFA at Essendon and Francis looks very good but needs to put together a good season first.
Would you swap Weideman for Tim Membrey?
 

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schmuttt

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#64
Yeah he is, Gresham is an absolute star. Also if you're comparing the two pairs I'm extremely comfortable saying Carlisle will be more value to the Saints than Morgan to the Bombers, so even though I think Gresham shades Francis right now the gap between the other two is rather large.

All semantics anyway as Carlisle was leaving Essendon no matter what at the end of 2015.

edit - forgot Morgan isn't even at Essendon anymore which furthers my point
 

Jade

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#65
Well he indisputably has more runs on the board, but more talented? No. Nup. Nada. I am quite comfortable in suggesting that on pure talent, Francis would be in the top three at Essendon (Daniher and Fantasia the other two that jump to mind). Then of course, there is the fact that Francis was rated more highly than Gresham by Champion Data (though I do acknowledge that's not the be all and end all).

Gresham is an absolute star.
Ease up. He's a mid 30s goal per year forward at the moment. Hardly a star.

Also if you're comparing the two pairs I'm extremely comfortable saying Carlisle will be more value to the Saints than Morgan to the Bombers, so even though I think Gresham shades Francis right now the gap between the other two is rather large.
I'm not comparing the pair.

All semantics anyway as Carlisle was leaving Essendon no matter what at the end of 2015.
Sure was, and not a tear was shed at Essendon.
 

GUMBLETRON

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#66
I'm not sure why Morgan even comes into it. Essendon slid from 23 to 24, so odds are they took him regardless. The only other possibility is Luke Partington, who managed a whole four more games than Morgan before being cut.

In reality the makeweight was #44, which given the ongoing WADA appeal would potentially have also gone on Mitch Brown anyway to guarantee he and Hartley.
 
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#67
Ya reckon?

If there was a magic big red button in which was offered to all three clubs, today and today only to reverse the trades, I reckon St Kilda would be the only one to consider it.
Not sure if you are actually being serious?

Basically St.Kilda got Carlisle & Gresham for Francis & something called Alex Morgan. Carlisle is huge for us structurally and one of our first picked players when fit. Yes he is injured this year but we aren't contending this year anyway. And he is only 27 so we can deal.

Head to head Gresham has Francis covered by the length of Flemington straight and back again. Suggesting anything otherwise is just bizarre.

One has 62 games, a top 3 finish in the B+F, a club leading goalkicker award, a rising star nom, and a spot in the under 22 team before 21

The other has 10 games, about 100 possessions and a trade request away from his club by 21.

Regarding projected talent, you could offer us every player you drafted in 2015 (including Francis), and whoever your next best KPD is for Gresham and we would just laugh at you and walk away.
 
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Jade

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#69
Not sure if you are actually being serious?

Basically St.Kilda got Carlisle & Gresham for Francis & something called Alex Morgan. Carlisle is huge for us structurally and one of our first picked players when fit. Yes he is injured this year but we aren't contending this year anyway. And he is only 27 so we can deal.

Head to head Gresham has Francis covered by the length of Flemington straight and back again. Suggesting anything otherwise is just bizarre.

One has 62 games, a top 3 finish in the B+F, a club leading goalkicker award, a rising star nom, and a spot in the under 22 team before 21

The other has 10 games, about 100 possessions and a trade request away from his club by 21.

Regarding projected talent, you could offer us every player you drafted in 2015 (including Francis), and whoever your next best KPD is for Gresham and we would just laugh at you and walk away.
****in LOL.

You have a bottom three list.

You are absolutely kidding yourself.
 

saintkildaman

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#70
****in LOL.

You have a bottom three list.

You are absolutely kidding yourself.
Since why has Francis suddenly become a star? Because he took a big specky last year?

Don’t get me wrong he’s shown talent but he played 5 games last year.. that game against Port was impressive but hardly enough substance to laugh at the suggestion that Gresham is better.

Gresh has produced two quality seasons as a small forward and only looks like he will get better given his progression to the midfield. Give me Gresh over Francis any day.

Then throw in Carlisle who has played 40 games with us for two top ten B&F placings whilst playing as our number 1 KPD. If he gets fit he will be an integral part of our side as usual.

No way St Kilda would reconsider this trade. However if it was a direct swap of Morgan and Francis for Carlisle and Gresham I have no doubt Essendon would be more then tempted.
 

Jade

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#72
What relevance is the Saints list to this trade and comparison?
Because the poster in question suggested that if Essendon offered every draftee from 2015 (read Parish and Francis) plus our next best KPD for Gresham, they’d ‘laugh and walk away’

Seeing the utter stupidity yet?
 
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#73
Carlsisle has been great. as a leader and on field performances.
2019 yes he sits out BUT at come 2020 at 28 he wouldve missed 2 years of footy in his journey meaning as long as they fix his back he will be fresh like a 26 yo when we need him. blessing in disguise *hopefully.
 
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