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Jake Carlisle Updates

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gringo2011 said:
I have heard plenty of calls for the AFL to come in over our heads and give JC a lengthy spell as it's not our place to do it. They are probably letting us handle it as compo for stuffing it up. Someone there would have known something and they covered it up too. We were a sacrificial lamb to help build Essendon. Finnis is a plant by the AFL -we have an insider who will follow the script. It's not necessarily a bad thing because when we choose our own team they **** everything up. We just aren't going to have anyone rock the AFL boat too much. We will accept it in our stride and pretend we don't care because we love Jake.
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What crap.

E: In that it's fake moon landing/911 truther level conspiracy theory ridiculousness.
 
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Mid season there where reports that we were into Bennell, when his lifestyle and photos came out we shut that down, and if we had of none about Carlisle we definitely would have done the same.

But.


We are stuck with Carlisle now and I'm glad the video came out, so now we know, he will have to prove himself now, if we were still in the dark he could have turned out to be the next Ben cousins.

Let's just play footy and make a call mid season next year how he is going!

IMO I think richo will make him a man of truth and honesty and he will turn out to be a champion of our team and someone kids can look up to in years too come!

He is a saint now so we have to also stick up for him like we do with our own.

Strength through loyalty
 
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Just thinking out loud, and others might be able to clarify...

I read where the trade was delayed because of Bird. If so, just wondering how that played in the timeline of events. HAd the trade been done a day or so earlier, would McConville have known about the video?

Either way, this really stinks, especially the AFLPA. surely they must have a duty of care to the overall reputation of the game as well?

There has to be some level of disclosure somewhere along the line... at the very least to AFL if not our club. FFS we don't have a Priest / confessor privilege rule or anything like that do we? Or Lawyer/ client confidentiality.

If you have damaging info then you have the moral obligation to pass it on. Absolute shambles IMO.
 
Murraj1966 said:
Luke Ball ruined the the AFLPA.

His whinge lead to Free Agency leading to the disgusting attitude of current players and the adversarial relationship between the AFL and the players.
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So the players have a union that the clubs pay for, I've never heard of any employers doing that for their workers
 
Training Mad said:
So the players have a union that the clubs pay for, I've never heard of any employers doing that for their workers
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Little bit of misconception on this.

The AFLPA was originally quashed by the VFL sometime in the 50's, because "stuff representation, we'll just strike!" sometime during the 70's the players pushed for some representation because they felt exploited, and considering we as a club have previously paid 20c in a dollar to players, you can imagine how hard it might have been for some players to make ends meat playing the game, because it has really only been professional since about 1990. Funnily enough, 1990 is when the AFL and AFLPA as they were now known decided to come together, quit their bitching and sign the CBA which continues to be negotiated to this day between the two.

Initially, members paid a fee to the AFLPA (something like $40) and thus were represented by them, these days they're represented via the CBA the AFLPA negotiate with the Commission, so yes and no that the clubs pay for it, in its current climate without the AFLPA you do not have the CBA, without the CBA you do not have the rights deal and without the right deal TPP's get shoved back to the stone age.

Also, far as I'm aware, Ball was president last year, Paul Marsh, previous cricket CEO was Chief Exec.
 
What a sleazy lot the AFLPA and McConville is typical of all Managers, hiding this until StKilda were screwed. No matter how good Carlisle ends up being he has done a huge amount of damage to the club and put sponsorships current and future at risk. At least Bennell showed us his true colours in advance so we could diplomatically withdraw. Eddie is totally right on this one.

I hope you can recoup some of this out of Carlisle's salary, nobody else will ever want him so kick his ass hard ... or take another one on the chin and delist him.

You have my condolences and respect.

btw you can be sure Essendon knew nothing of this or they would have delt with him when he was still under contract to them. This is all the AFLPA Union and McConville and your brainless new recruit.
 
Rimmer said:
What a sleazy lot the AFLPA and McConville is typical of all Managers, hiding this until StKilda were screwed. No matter how good Carlisle ends up being he has done a huge amount of damage to the club and put sponsorships current and future at risk. At least Bennell showed us his true colours in advance so we could diplomatically withdraw. Eddie is totally right on this one.

I hope you can recoup some of this out of Carlisle's salary, nobody else will ever want him so kick his ass hard ... or take another one on the chin and delist him.

You have my condolences and respect.

btw you can be sure Essendon knew nothing of this or they would have delt with him when he was still under contract to them. This is all the AFLPA Union and McConville and your brainless new recruit.
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Yeah, I'm not buying that Essendon didn't know that he was dabbling in drugs towards the end of his tenure there. Why would anyone think that that sh!t stain of a club would be honest and upfront about anything. They're full of sh!t that club. Didn't Hird speak directly to St.Kilda vouching Lovett's character? FFS!!!
 
I guess I'll be on my own here, but I actually feel sorry for Jake. Yes, it was his fault but at the end of the day, mates he must have trusted sold him out to A Current Affair and not only severely screwed up his relationship with his new club, his manager, the sporting public and his new teammates, their actions had the potential to destroy his career entirely, and considering his intelligence and alternative career possibilities, his entire life.

His own family are probably copping heat for this and his hated old club and their deadshit list manager are sitting back having a jolly good laugh. I wonder if he knows which if his friends he can trust now.

How alone must he feel now? Hope the boys get around him
 
austinnn said:
I guess I'll be on my own here, but I actually feel sorry for Jake. Yes, it was his fault but at the end of the day, mates he must have trusted sold him out to A Current Affair and not only severely screwed up his relationship with his new club, his manager, the sporting public and his new teammates, their actions had the potential to destroy his career entirely, and considering his intelligence and alternative career possibilities, his entire life.

His own family are probably copping heat for this and his hated old club and their deadshit list manager are sitting back having a jolly good laugh. I wonder if he knows which if his friends he can trust now.

How alone must he feel now? Hope the boys get around him
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Yeah what his mate did was sh!t and his family will be hurting. People make mistakes and he's got his chance now to do the right thing. The club will support him as long as he stays true to his word which will be questioned after saying he wanted to be a leader at the club but let's see how he responds. But don't make him out to be the victim and feel sorry for him. He made a stupid choice and was an idiot. Simple. I don't know how you can feel sorry for him. Support him yes, but don't feel sorry for him over that act. The club won't because if they did he would think its ok to stuff up again cuz the club would seem like a soft target.
 

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CALL ME SNAKE said:
Just need to bounce the damn ball and have Carlisle & Goddard show us a glimpse of our exciting new ( and hopefully premiership) backline .
Im sick of this thread already.
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MILNEY needed the bounce of the damn ball too. How different everyone's life would be...DAMN IT!!!!
 
Training Mad said:
Dose anyone think that all the lies he has seen at the bombers is probably the reason why he also lied to McConartist?
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No. He clearly didn't know how snapchat worked so he wrongly assumed the video couldn't be of him. If the question was "Is there a video of you snorting coke out there?" and he thinks his video is deleted then the truthful answer is "No".
 
I assume whichever mate sold him out did so because of his plan to leave the bombers, not just for cash. I wonder if it was Greg Williams' daughter, furious with Jake for not nominating the Blooze. Could write a soap opera about this nonsense.

Players have survived sterner tests, let's just hope he has an awesome preseason and doesn't get injured.
 
Training Mad said:
Dose anyone think that all the lies he has seen at the bombers is probably the reason why he also lied to McConartist?
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If your being raised by a Vulture you dont grow up to be a Bird of Paradise.
Essendon has been a terrible place for young men to be guided.

That whole clubs moral compass has been pointing towards the toilet for yrs now.
 
Kildonan said:
How can you say that?
Sponsors may well think twice about linking their brand to the St Kilda FC directly because of this.
They may not blame St Kilda, but prospective sponsors won't want any association with scandal.
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I don't agree to be honest. Prospective sponsors can be encouraged by the way the club handles the situation that they can clearly see had nothing to do with us. In my eyes the way the club is being portrayed in this situation is very positive.
 

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Periphery said:
What crap.

E: In that it's fake moon landing/911 truther level conspiracy theory ridiculousness.
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The AFL organised Finnis to come to us because like melbourne and Brisbane we couldn't manage our own affairs. I don't think it's a conspiracy. We are not very good at doing it ourselves. I'm just saying nothing will come of it. Finnis knows the guys from the AFLPA he also knows who feeds him and he is very ambitious.

On SEN the journos seem to agree everyone knew about this before hand except us. The AFL would have know of the possibility of the video being real and they let it go through as did the AFLPA. The AFLPA didn't even call their old mate Finnis to give the heads up. The AFLPA would have spoken to the AFL lawyers I reckon and got advice.

I think the AFL wanted Essendon to rebuild at the draft quickly because every time they cleanse themselves from the past it wipes away the issue a bit more.

I believe we probably were a better option to be dumped in shit than the AFL have to manage a story that went Essendon can't organise a trade which a day ago would have netted them pick 5. Now they have a another huge drug saga that has embarrassed the whole comp. If I was the AFL I would have probably thought sometimes the lesser of two evils is sometimes the better option.
 
Training Mad said:
So the players have a union that the clubs pay for, I've never heard of any employers doing that for their workers
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Haven't been following the political witchhunt called the Royal Commission?

If an employer had done what the AFL has done for this union it would be front page news with screams of corruption.

Make the players pay for their union like all membership bodies. I work for a membership organisation and our members pay for the right to our designation and professional integrity.

These players get it too easy. Make them pay for their bloody union if they want one.
 
CALL ME SNAKE said:
If your being raised by a Vulture you dont grow up to be a Bird of Paradise.
Essendon has been a terrible place for young men to be guided.

That whole clubs moral compass has been pointing towards the toilet for yrs now.
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James Hird was a master of bullshit, he and Sheedy gave character references for Andrew Lovett FFS. He hung out with crimes in his spare time and has always had an easy time of talking shit. The whole club seems to have been dodgy for a very long time.
 
Joffaboy said:
Haven't been following the political witchhunt called the Royal Commission?

If an employer had done what the AFL has done for this union it would be front page news with screams of corruption.

Make the players pay for their union like all membership bodies. I work for a membership organisation and our members pay for the right to our designation and professional integrity.

These players get it too easy. Make them pay for their bloody union if they want one.
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Yeah if you had a union that was pay rolled by your employer you would wonder what the catch was I reckon.
 
Periphery said:
What crap.

E: In that it's fake moon landing/911 truther level conspiracy theory ridiculousness.
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I just saw this over at SS. It pretty much backs what I say but says Finnis was pissed off not to be told. The AFL have control over pretty much everything and the AFLPA is a AFL funded group. Why is it it such a conspiracy?

But it still seems a breach of trust for the manager, who had been in regular contact with the Saints' list manager Ameet Bains for weeks and often on an hourly basis to go quiet at such a crucial time. The allegations, after all, came from the Nine Network and not some unidentified troll.
And, of course, in Carlisle's second serious error, the player lied to McConville when the agent first contacted him. It was on that crucial Tuesday that the trade with Essendon was being finalised with the papers lodged at AFL headquarters on Tuesday night.
Still they had not been ratified early on Wednesday when McConville was worried enough to take his concerns to Ian Prendergast and Brett Murphy from the AFL Players Association.
Prendergast and Murphy are respected and diligent as well as popular individuals among the industry. Prendergast's achievement alongside the AFL's Mark Evans in negotiating the new significantly improved illicit drugs policy deserves more commendation than it has received.
But he and his colleague were wrong to keep the allegations from St Kilda. That decision has deeply offended the Saints and hurt the relationship with club chief Matt Finnis and his former players union colleagues.
That they advised McConville to say nothing to the Saints at such a crucial time has been regarded by other clubs as a breach of trust despite the AFLPA's insistence that the manager's priority had to remain his client. Sometimes when it feels wrong it is wrong.
And the timing was more than unfortunate. It was catastrophic for St Kilda. Finnis had arrived at AFL headquarters on the Wednesday believing he had a good news story to tell as the Carlisle trade was made official only to walk out to A Current Affair doorstop. All this before McConville or Prendergast had had the chance to contact him, having realised the vision was genuine and due to run publicly that night.
It is the widespread view of the AFL community that St Kilda should not have been kept in the dark, even for a day, regarding Carlisle. That the players' association overstepped the mark in their zeal to protect the footballer.
Prendergast on Friday described the confluence of events as a perfect storm. He insisted he slept soundly with his decision to stay silent until more information came forward. The AFLPA pointed to the fact that St Kilda has indicated it would have called off the deal had it known.
Whether or not this is true, it should have been the Saints' right. The multi-million-dollar investment from a cash-strapped club, not to mention the sacrifice it had elected to make in terms of young talent along with the accompanying damage to its only recently repairing reputation, made the suppression of information completely unreasonable. As it would have been for any club. They deserved to have all the information available.
Several clubs on Friday held the view that the league's integrity bosses should have questioned the AFLPA for its role in the saga, however that will not happen and would not be appropriate. But the union should analyse its handling of such cases. Clearly the Player Agents Accreditation Board will not penalise McConville given he was acting on that body's guidance.
Carlisle still faces a penalty from the competition but the punishment is expected to come from St Kilda with some behind-the-scenes negotiating with head office. He has indicated that he will accept a drug strike and could also be suspended from playing at the start of the 2016 season.
And with the removal of the marketing money and some other key clauses from his contract, Carlisle will finish up losing a six-figure sum, making him the most heavily penalised player in AFL history for having taken illicit drugs on one known occasion.
The AFLPA has lost the upper hand in the bitter bargaining over the contract revisions through its poor advice to McConville but tensions between club and union have risen further with the Saints playing hardball.


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/j ... z3q2l8E9aM
Follow us: theage on Twitter | theageAustralia on Facebook
 
austinnn said:
I guess I'll be on my own here, but I actually feel sorry for Jake. Yes, it was his fault but at the end of the day, mates he must have trusted sold him out to A Current Affair and not only severely screwed up his relationship with his new club, his manager, the sporting public and his new teammates, their actions had the potential to destroy his career entirely, and considering his intelligence and alternative career possibilities, his entire life.

His own family are probably copping heat for this and his hated old club and their deadshit list manager are sitting back having a jolly good laugh. I wonder if he knows which if his friends he can trust now.

How alone must he feel now? Hope the boys get around him
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Yeah I feel sorry for him but feel sorrier for us. We have landed in shit again because of him. He has ruined what should be a time to celebrate the landing of a big fish but we are back to having people laugh at our ability to trip over our feet a meter from the finish line. He must be really stressed and upset but the feelings are shared. He's now a borderline mentally deficient according to Essendon and we are getting questioned as to why we didn't see that in our process. I'm just really worried he can't keep his nose clean to see out his first contract. As soon as he kicks a football and becomes a gun I'm sure all will be forgiven but right now he deserves all the kicks in the nuts he gets.
 

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