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Jake Carlisle Updates

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plugger66 said:
Yes I get that but I still don't think many will leave. You obviously do and that's fine. Loyalty amongst players usually holds up no matter what but I do understand nothing like this has happened previously. If the players don't come to us id rather they stay. I don't want them to make other clubs stronger.
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I didnt say anything about whether i wanted players to leave or not, so dont assume anything about what i think, if they go they go, if so i hope we snare a good one.
 
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Cornish said:
I didnt say anything about whether i wanted players to leave or not, so dont assume anything about what i think, if they go they go, if so i hope we snare a good one.
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Wow. No you didn't but you gave a reason why the loyalty would be different with us and Essendon. I extremely sorry I was wrong.
 
dougiemac said:
You are very forgiving joop. I see that your other team is Leeds Utd, a former football powerhouse in England and Europe, suffering, probably for many years, for financial misdemeanors. That's how things are, do the crime, suffer the consequences. No sentiment from me.
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No doubt. But they've been kicked out of a finals series, lost draft picks and now have most of their best 18 out for a year. I can't even imagine the financial consequences they'll cop too.
If I put myself in their shoes you'd like to think they've paid their dues, no need to keep rubbing it in over and over again. I'm sick of the whole saga, move on.
 

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joop said:
No doubt. But they've been kicked out of a finals series, lost draft picks and now have most of their best 18 out for a year. I can't even imagine the financial consequences they'll cop too.
If I put myself in their shoes you'd like to think they've paid their dues, no need to keep rubbing it in over and over again. I'm sick of the whole saga, move on.
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1 final series exclusion - instead of not playing for premiership points in 2014 (considering news broke in 2013 re indiscretions in 2012)
$2m fine.
Lost rnd 1 and 2 draft picks for 2 seasons.
(Hird suspended, Thompson fined)

That is the club fine for Essendon.

Compare this to what Carlton got for systemic rorting of the TPP which broke in 2002;

Fined 930k. (870 odd +50 odd, previous amoutns included 125k & 50k in '01)
excluded from the 2nd and third round of one draft ('01), excluded from the PSD of 2002 (2001 breaches before it broke of the nature of their breaches) then banning of the 1st and second round of the next draft ('02).
Excluded from the draft of the next year as well, 1st and second picks ('03).

So in effect for a club who treated more than 34 men and boys as guinea pigs with regards to prohibitive substances and substances not cleared for human use the sum amount is;

$1m and change
Got removed from a finals series.
Had more picks in drafting.

The reason this has dragged is because Essendon as a club and people in general (ie Hird, Dank, Charters, Little) decided that they did not want to cop this, they did not want to be the bad guys, they wanted everyone to know that it wasn't their fault and it's all a conspiracy and screw you, your sister, your mother, your dog we will fight you. They did, with AFL backing, Reimers was absolutely hounded down in public mediums, Hal Hunter was a delisted scrub who was simply doing this for money, Ryder was a wimp, a sooky la la who screwed Essendon by leaving and we will fight him.

And here we are, 4 years in and the backtracking is goddamn astounding that it'd win gold at the Olympics, no contest. I mean shit, the AFL have the balls to ask Hal to pay their costs, a TV program airs an interview with the bloke and inform them it's going to air and the AFL say "nah, don't worry about it, we were so kidding". It's a joke, it's hilarious how far Essendon and the AFL have retreated from their initial stances and you know why?

Because the parents of these men started to come out in tears, gutted, and absolutely betrayed by the club and by the AFL wanting their boys out of there. Except for Timtam because hurr durr, and one of the players in Hunter decided to take them to court to find out what the hell they did to him, on the back of several players (Monfries, Ryder, Crameri, Carlisle) wanting out of the club.

Essendon, as a club needed to literally emulate the Melbourne Storm and exist for a year, playing the game but being able to win nothing. Nada. Ziltch. Their gains since 2012 should have been taken from them, individual and club wise, AFL funds Essendon got from the Commission? Pay it back you abused it, cap the TPP, no increase for you, you abused it, literally tell them that they are housing AFL sanctioned medical practitioners for the next 1-2 years to ensure that they have learned their lesson and there will be no repeat and they will goddamn be humble, and you can only trade into the drafts, your last 3 picks will be your first 3 live picks for the next year at least (maybe the next one as well), you want in that draft, you're trading out a Jobe, a Ryder, a Heppell, you're not trading in a Goddard for instance.

Again, instead we got spat on and told how wrong we were and that they would fight us for it.

You might be sick of it, you might think that people need to move on from it, I would not mind if this dogged the AFL for the next decade, because there are still people who believe in their heart of hearts that this was just an Essendon thing, this was insular, this was a mistake as opposed to a catastrophic failure of sporting governance in the AFL which lays squarely at the Commissions feet for being inept and unable to deal with it. because they're buying up Gills "family friendly" push hook line and bloody sinker.
 
StFly said:
1 final series exclusion - instead of not playing for premiership points in 2014 (considering news broke in 2013 re indiscretions in 2012)
$2m fine.
Lost rnd 1 and 2 draft picks for 2 seasons.
(Hird suspended, Thompson fined)

That is the club fine for Essendon.

Compare this to what Carlton got for systemic rorting of the TPP which broke in 2002;

Fined 930k. (870 odd +50 odd, previous amoutns included 125k & 50k in '01)
excluded from the 2nd and third round of one draft ('01), excluded from the PSD of 2002 (2001 breaches before it broke of the nature of their breaches) then banning of the 1st and second round of the next draft ('02).
Excluded from the draft of the next year as well, 1st and second picks ('03).

So in effect for a club who treated more than 34 men and boys as guinea pigs with regards to prohibitive substances and substances not cleared for human use the sum amount is;

$1m and change
Got removed from a finals series.
Had more picks in drafting.

The reason this has dragged is because Essendon as a club and people in general (ie Hird, Dank, Charters, Little) decided that they did not want to cop this, they did not want to be the bad guys, they wanted everyone to know that it wasn't their fault and it's all a conspiracy and screw you, your sister, your mother, your dog we will fight you. They did, with AFL backing, Reimers was absolutely hounded down in public mediums, Hal Hunter was a delisted scrub who was simply doing this for money, Ryder was a wimp, a sooky la la who screwed Essendon by leaving and we will fight him.

And here we are, 4 years in and the backtracking is goddamn astounding that it'd win gold at the Olympics, no contest. I mean shit, the AFL have the balls to ask Hal to pay their costs, a TV program airs an interview with the bloke and inform them it's going to air and the AFL say "nah, don't worry about it, we were so kidding". It's a joke, it's hilarious how far Essendon and the AFL have retreated from their initial stances and you know why?

Because the parents of these men started to come out in tears, gutted, and absolutely betrayed by the club and by the AFL wanting their boys out of there. Except for Timtam because hurr durr, and one of the players in Hunter decided to take them to court to find out what the hell they did to him, on the back of several players (Monfries, Ryder, Crameri, Carlisle) wanting out of the club.

Essendon, as a club needed to literally emulate the Melbourne Storm and exist for a year, playing the game but being able to win nothing. Nada. Ziltch. Their gains since 2012 should have been taken from them, individual and club wise, AFL funds Essendon got from the Commission? Pay it back you abused it, cap the TPP, no increase for you, you abused it, literally tell them that they are housing AFL sanctioned medical practitioners for the next 1-2 years to ensure that they have learned their lesson and there will be no repeat and they will goddamn be humble, and you can only trade into the drafts, your last 3 picks will be your first 3 live picks for the next year at least (maybe the next one as well), you want in that draft, you're trading out a Jobe, a Ryder, a Heppell, you're not trading in a Goddard for instance.

Again, instead we got spat on and told how wrong we were and that they would fight us for it.

You might be sick of it, you might think that people need to move on from it, I would not mind if this dogged the AFL for the next decade, because there are still people who believe in their heart of hearts that this was just an Essendon thing, this was insular, this was a mistake as opposed to a catastrophic failure of sporting governance in the AFL which lays squarely at the Commissions feet for being inept and unable to deal with it. because they're buying up Gills "family friendly" push hook line and bloody sinker.
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I'm not going to sit here and compare this with a completely different scenario from 15 years ago let alone one from a different code.
You pointed the exact reason why people need to move on, Dank, Hird ect ect aren't there anymore. It's been done. Move on and stop being so dramatic.
 
plugger66 said:
Wow. No you didn't but you gave a reason why the loyalty would be different with us and Essendon. I extremely sorry I was wrong.
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You know the lot, you know everything about everybody and everything, you know what people are thinking before they think it, you are a legend in your own small world, whatever you reckon, whatever you say is gospel, but i wont play your silly childish games.

Dont bother with a reply it will be ignored as you will be in the future.
 
Regardless of who is or isn't there... from where I sit, the club copped the equivalent of a slap with a wet lettuce leaf.

The players IMO have worn the brunt of the punishment with (a) their ban, (b0 the label of drug cheat, and (c) their life sentence of never knowing what was put into them.

On the other hand, the club stocks up on talent, cops a fine which is chump change for their rich coteries, and will get rewarded this year with the #1 draft pick.

It's not about being dramatic, this goes to the very integrity oft he game.

I'm with the Fly on this one. I will not rest until the club is properly held accountable for what it did to the players.

Hird and Dank may be gone, but if the substances create long term health problems, then what? Do we just move on?

I would like to see people just move on if it was their son or brother that got the needle.
 
**** essendon
 
VDS66 said:
Regardless of who is or isn't there... from where I sit, the club copped the equivalent of a slap with a wet lettuce leaf.

The players IMO have worn the brunt of the punishment with (a) their ban, (b0 the label of drug cheat, and (c) their life sentence of never knowing what was put into them.

On the other hand, the club stocks up on talent, cops a fine which is chump change for their rich coteries, and will get rewarded this year with the #1 draft pick.

It's not about being dramatic, this goes to the very integrity oft he game.

I'm with the Fly on this one. I will not rest until the club is properly held accountable for what it did to the players.

Hird and Dank may be gone, but if the substances create long term health problems, then what? Do we just move on?

I would like to see people just move on if it was their son or brother that got the needle.
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yeah the Four Corners show the other night showed just how grubby that club is. Scary stuff if it was your kid.
Any sympathy i had dissolved totally .
Hope a lot of players walk out on them.
 

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Jake Carlisle links drug use with Essendon supplements trauma
Date March 21, 2016
Caroline Wilson


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/...nts-trauma-20160321-gnn574.html#ixzz43dTsgzG7
Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook

Lawyers behind suspended former Bomber Jake Carlisle have linked the player's off-season drug use with the trauma of his last three years at Essendon.

Carlisle's looming compensation claim comes amidst an avalanche of various legal actions facing the club from the 34 banned past and present players who have now split into various groups.

Fairfax Media has found divisions emerging between various factions, with many players and their managers becoming increasingly disenchanted with the AFL Players Association and the league itself.

1458530540898.jpg

Looming compensation claim: Jake Carlisle. Photo: Pat Scala

Dyson Heppell and Carlisle, whose contract was cut as he was suspended for four weeks by St Kilda after being caught taking drugs during a holiday in the US, have enlisted the services of former AFL Coaches' Association lawyer Chris Pollard, who fell out with the AFL over its treatment of the late Dean Bailey.

St Kilda stopped paying Carlisle after he was suspended by the Court of Arbitration for Sport in January. While his legal strategy is not expected to see the player fully blame Essendon's drug program and its fall-out for his off-season transgression, Carlisle's representatives believe there was a link between his traumatic final period at the club and then letting off steam during his break in the belief he had found a new club.

Like several other players planning to sue the club, Carlisle believes Essendon contributed to his loss of reputation. Heppell, the 2015 acting captain at Essendon, has a series of different issues having lost his sponsorship with Adidas as well as a gym sponsorship. The complexities of quantifying potential loss of earnings for the most talented players is proving legally challenging.

Pollard is also advising Travis Colyer, David Myers and Leroy Jetta and has met Nathan Lovett-Murray's manager, Peter Jess, who is in turn due to meet Essendon CEO Xavier Campbell this week.

Several managers have also privately taken aim at Elite Sports Properties boss Craig Kelly, fearing his close commercial ties with the AFL have not proved to be in the best interests of the players.

With the AFL now working to rehabilitate Essendon for the good of the game, one view is that Elite Sports Properties, which manages eight of the suspended 34 including Jobe Watson, Tom Bellchambers and Brent Stanton, is co-operating too closely with the AFL. Other player managers have threatened to walk their players out of Essendon whether contracted or not.

Kelly refuted the suggestion. "I'm absolutely close to the AFL and that has not been a bad thing for my players or the team of really good people who are representing my players. But I would not compromise my players' interests."

Kelly's players are being represented by Howard Rapke of Holding Redlich while another influential player manager, Paul Connors, has on behalf of his players engaged Patrick Gordon of Slater and Gordon. Both legal teams have met Campbell who has not yet held talks with Pollard.

While Campbell has not yet resolved Essendon's insurance position with Liberty in terms of compensating the five former Bombers now playing at rival AFL clubs, he is understood to have been overseeing special payments to three other former players whose livelihoods have been affected by the CAS ban.

The various legal claims have also been complicated by perceived deficiencies in the AFL's standard playing contracts. Those contracts stipulate players can receive a percentage of their base payments if suspended by an AFL tribunal but contain no mention of other tribunals such as the Court of Arbitration for Sport.

That is one source of disenchantment towards the players' union which has also lost the full confidence of some managers after advising that the 34 players were highly unlikely to be found guilty of taking banned substances and even if they were would only receive a suspension of a number of weeks.

The looming compensation claims and other potential legal action against the club follows the pre-trial disclosure case waged by former Bomber Hal Hunter whose legal team is planning on re-opening the case.

Hunter told Fairfax Media his diagnosis of anxiety and depression stemmed from concerns about what he was given during the club's 2012 drug program.



Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/...nts-trauma-20160321-gnn574.html#ixzz43dTacnxD
Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook
 
For someone who was apparently about to sue the club, Jake is doing a pretty good impression of someone who has a good relationship with the club, it's supporters and his new team mates...
Screen Shot 2016-03-23 at 12.29.50 am.png
 

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Cornish said:
You know the lot, you know everything about everybody and everything, you know what people are thinking before they think it, you are a legend in your own small world, whatever you reckon, whatever you say is gospel, but i wont play your silly childish games.

Dont bother with a reply it will be ignored as you will be in the future.
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Ok. Thanks for that. Just because I put 2 and 2 together and got 4. You wanted me to get 6. I just think bugger all players will leave Essendon but could be wrong. Carlisle has already left so it shows players will leave. Have a lovely day.
 
VDS66 said:
Regardless of who is or isn't there... from where I sit, the club copped the equivalent of a slap with a wet lettuce leaf.

The players IMO have worn the brunt of the punishment with (a) their ban, (b0 the label of drug cheat, and (c) their life sentence of never knowing what was put into them.

On the other hand, the club stocks up on talent, cops a fine which is chump change for their rich coteries, and will get rewarded this year with the #1 draft pick.

It's not about being dramatic, this goes to the very integrity oft he game.

I'm with the Fly on this one. I will not rest until the club is properly held accountable for what it did to the players.

Hird and Dank may be gone, but if the substances create long term health problems, then what? Do we just move on?

I would like to see people just move on if it was their son or brother that got the needle.
Click to expand...


Without being rude it doesn't matter if people wont rest or are unhappy with the end result because nothing we else will happen. The AFL aren't all of a sudden going to say people are still angry so lets give a bigger penalty. I think for peoples sanity they are just better to let it go and concentrate on our great club. Some players will sue the club but all that will do is make the AFL use our money to bail them out if they are in money trouble. Essendon survive what ever happens. We need 18 clubs, we need Essendon, well especially the smaller clubs do because we need money off the AFL. I know we hate that but that life. As for St Fly saying its the governance of the AFL that is at fault well I cant come at that at all. It clearly only one clubs fault and that us Essendon. Don't let them off by blaming others.
 
If the penalties to Carlton show, the penalties to Essendon will cripple them for ten years. Their reputation is shot, and they will get flogged tbis and probably next year.

Hell even without penalties they havent finished higher than 5th since 2002. They are a poor organisation living off the past glories.

They will continue to pay for their cheating. They have not bern hit by a wet lettuce unless you want a club to fold.

Stop the vindictiveness and just enjoy the pain that shit stain of a club will continue to have.

Just like Carlton, they are yesterdays club
 
VDS66 said:
Regardless of who is or isn't there... from where I sit, the club copped the equivalent of a slap with a wet lettuce leaf.

The players IMO have worn the brunt of the punishment with (a) their ban, (b0 the label of drug cheat, and (c) their life sentence of never knowing what was put into them.

On the other hand, the club stocks up on talent, cops a fine which is chump change for their rich coteries, and will get rewarded this year with the #1 draft pick.

It's not about being dramatic, this goes to the very integrity oft he game.

I'm with the Fly on this one. I will not rest until the club is properly held accountable for what it did to the players.

Hird and Dank may be gone, but if the substances create long term health problems, then what? Do we just move on?

I would like to see people just move on if it was their son or brother that got the needle.
Click to expand...
So what punishment is enough for you to make them 'accountable'?
 
joop said:
So what punishment is enough for you to make them 'accountable'?
Click to expand...
Deregistration, winding up of the commercial entity and burning Windy Hill to the ground and salting the earth there.

**** Essenscum.
 

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