James Hird gone, presser at 3:15 today - The Age

[Ancient Tiger]

Is this thread still going? I thought Hird (like Elvis) had left the building!

 

[MaddAdam]

not like that though, you take orders from the kingmaker not give them

While not subscribing entirely to the McLachlan had Hird knifed via News, the reality is Murdoch actually does need the AFL more than they need him.

It's very simple economics - the AFL have a sought after commodity ... eyeballs on a screen at a set time ... in live sport, and there's an increasing number of buyers in the market.

Prices go up.

Murdoch is forced to pay a premium to secure it because his model relies on "leveraging" live sport, as the big man said, across a number of platforms.

Now News has a significant financial investment in footy, it will align its views with the governing body in order to maximise its return.

That's a long way of course from Hird being as a condition of the deal.

But certainly the ground shifted under Hirds feet and suddenly his bomb throwing at the AFL becomes bomb throwing at News' key "sporting property".

Hird was going at some point relatively soon irrespective of the TV rights deal for a range of reasons both on and off field.

But he certainly was very quickly isolated and if Murdoch is happy to turn on previous political allies without warning - his papers supported "New Labour" for over a decade before they savagely dumped Gordon Brown - then a football coach like James Hird would be chucked overboard without a second thought.

 

[DERIBERATE]

While not subscribing entirely to the McLachlan had Hird knifed via News, the reality is Murdoch actually does need the AFL more than they need him.

It's very simple economics - the AFL have a sought after commodity ... eyeballs on a screen at a set time ... in live sport, and there's an increasing number of buyers in the market.

Prices go up.

Murdoch is forced to pay a premium to secure it because his model relies on "leveraging" live sport, as the big man said, across a number of platforms.

Now News has a significant financial investment in footy, it will align its views with the governing body in order to maximise its return.

That's a long way of course from Hird being as a condition of the deal.

But certainly the ground shifted under Hirds feet and suddenly his bomb throwing at the AFL becomes bomb throwing at News' key "sporting property".

Hird was going at some point relatively soon irrespective of the TV rights deal for a range of reasons both on and off field.

But he certainly was very quickly isolated and if Murdoch is happy to turn on previous political allies without warning - his papers supported "New Labour" for over a decade before they savagely dumped Gordon Brown - then a football coach like James Hird would be chucked overboard without a second thought.

It all falls apart at the suddenly.

Hint - News already was leveraged to AFL before the new media deal - by the old media deal. No use beating down the price (the value) of something you already own.

Hird was sacked because he's a s**t coach and had lost the players.

 

[MaddAdam]

It all falls apart at the suddenly.

Hint - News already was leveraged to AFL before the new media deal - by the old media deal. No use beating down the price (the value) of something you already own.

Hird was sacked because he's a s**t coach and had lost the players.

Agree, that's why I don't buy the theory. Hird was gone anyway for reasons you state.

It would have been interesting to see how the whole thing played out were the rights up for renewal in 2013 though.

 

[NoAFLinmycomp]

The PR section of the AFL and EFC is still co-ordinating the show.

It’s as if WADA is a non-existing global body.

They’re trying to massage the message to “nothing to see here, it’s all OK, you don’t need to worry about anything.”

The articles late last week talking about “Essendon is still in a good financial position” and “Ess coaching job is more desirable than Carlton’s” show that “PR” is still running the show.

Essendon’s next two or so Financial Account Statements will make for very interesting readin

Yes, Hird is now consigned to footnote status as the INs being challenged before CAS only relate to the players and Dank.

I wonder if he will support the players and be called up as a witness for them? Given his statements at his "resigning" being all for the players and club moving on, it could be implied that he would.
In reality though, would the players want him there?

Perhaps it isn't a possibility anyway, depending upon what is buried in the payout conditions. I can't see how EFC or AFL would particularly want Hird's Army continuing the media campaign, as the CAS Tribunal approaches.

Unless ....

I wonder if ASADA/WADA would now consider pushing for an IN (s) against Hird and some of the other ex-Essendon staff, now that they are out of the direct club influence and support?

I can be rightly accused here of repeatedly blathering on about it, howerer McDevitt has always been clear he wanted those responsible for the program and lumping it all on Dank as a rogue operator doesn't really fit the WADA guidelines.
I think that there's still an appetite for holding those responsible, that failed in their duties to the players.
Maybe it will depend on the outcome at CAS - if it is accepted that a team based program did occur, it beggars belief that just the players and a rogue Dankenstein can be held accountable for it.
If that is the outcome, I'm fully behind the long-suffering Essendon supporters who've been saying that the anti-doping process is broken - it can't just penalise the athletes. It HAS to target the support, management and organisation structures that put the athletes in to these situations in the first place.

 

[the_interloper]

It all falls apart at the suddenly.

Hint - News already was leveraged to AFL before the new media deal - by the old media deal. No use beating down the price (the value) of something you already own.

Hird was sacked because he's a s**t coach and had lost the players.

Yep, for everything that happened when you lose by 100+ points several times in a season no one survives that.

 

[Akka76]

I'm interested in the timing. Is there more to Albert's long awaited departure than just a lazy 100 point loss to the Crows? It could have happened a few weeks before or at the end of the season but why that week?

Was it that

1. the Media had eventually got their man or
2. documentation could have been provided by WADA recently to EFC could have shortened the reign of King Albert or
   
3. Essendon were hemorrhaging home game cash flow and that the finance bods had decided it was time to cut him loose or
4. The Dirty Digger, Rupert Murdoch, told the AFL in no uncertain terms that he wasn't signing any fugging contract until James had officially gone and hence the delay in the TV rights presser?

Great post. Could be one or a multitude of those that led to the sacking.

 

[Muggs]

I wonder if he will support the players and be called up as a witness for them? Given his statements at his "resigning" being all for the players and club moving on, it could be implied that he would.

Can't see this happening, unless the players defense team suddenly discover reliable records that no one else has been able to find to launch a positive defence what can Hird offer? The players defence to date has been to discredit evidence (which is entirely within their rights) so the burden of proof can't be established.

It would enable WADA to cross examine him on why was there even discussion around a no fault deal with the AFL if nothing banned was taken?

He could be asked about why was their no records? He would also be asked about the one record that is talked about the spreadsheet in particular why was started months after the injection program?, He would be asked about the to when and how it was updated? Based on this can it be considered reliable? Therefore does it actually hide something?

He could also be asked about all the texts he received from Dank and why he did not follow up on them.

Can't see how putting Hird on the stand would actually help the players, and could actually make it seem like there was a cover up...

Only time I can see Hird appearing on the stand is at the sentencing stage after the players are found guilty in support of a no significant fault clause in trying to blame Dank for going out on his own.

Also anything he says on the stand may also be used against him if ASADA decides to go after him if the players are found guilty...

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Yes, Hird is now consigned to footnote status as the INs being challenged before CAS only relate to the players and Dank.

I wonder if he will support the players and be called up as a witness for them? Given his statements at his "resigning" being all for the players and club moving on, it could be implied that he would.
In reality though, would the players want him there?

Perhaps it isn't a possibility anyway, depending upon what is buried in the payout conditions. I can't see how EFC or AFL would particularly want Hird's Army continuing the media campaign, as the CAS Tribunal approaches.

Unless ....

I wonder if ASADA/WADA would now consider pushing for an IN (s) against Hird and some of the other ex-Essendon staff, now that they are out of the direct club influence and support?

I can be rightly accused here of repeatedly blathering on about it, howerer McDevitt has always been clear he wanted those responsible for the program and lumping it all on Dank as a rogue operator doesn't really fit the WADA guidelines.
I think that there's still an appetite for holding those responsible, that failed in their duties to the players.
Maybe it will depend on the outcome at CAS - if it is accepted that a team based program did occur, it beggars belief that just the players and a rogue Dankenstein can be held accountable for it.
If that is the outcome, I'm fully behind the long-suffering Essendon supporters who've been saying that the anti-doping process is broken - it can't just penalise the athletes. It HAS to target the support, management and organisation structures that put the athletes in to these situations in the first place.

Hird has to explain his comments that he's seen the spreadsheet with the word 'thymomodulin' plastered all over them.

 

[DapperJong]

Hird has to explain his comments that he's seen the spreadsheet with the word 'thymomodulin' plastered all over them.

...so that I feel better.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

...so that I feel better.

Naive.

James Hird, has publicly stated that he has seen the mystery records that no one else has seen.

He said, these records clearly stated that the players were receiving thymomodulin.

This means, categorically, that either the players were receiving thymomodulin - in which case the players have no case to answer, or whomever produced these records was bullshitting to the players and to everyone else as to what they were being injected with - in which case this person must be charged with either covering up an anti-doping violation, and/or some form of physical assault.


For mine, Hird stating that he's seen records clears Hird of any wrongdoing and clears the players potentially - or outright hangs the people that produced the records.

It has to be one or the other. At this stage, it's neither. That's not good enough.

 

[DERIBERATE]

Naive.

James Hird, has publicly stated that he has seen the mystery records that no one else has seen.

He said, these records clearly stated that the players were receiving thymomodulin.

This means, categorically, that either the players were receiving thymomodulin - in which case the players have no case to answer, or whomever produced these records was bullshitting to the players and to everyone else as to what they were being injected with - in which case this person must be charged with either covering up an anti-doping violation, and/or some form of physical assault.


For mine, Hird stating that he's seen records clears Hird of any wrongdoing and clears the players potentially - or outright hangs the people that produced the records.

It has to be one or the other. At this stage, it's neither. That's not good enough.

Option 3: he lied.

 

[DapperJong]

Naive.

James Hird, has publicly stated that he has seen the mystery records that no one else has seen.

He said, these records clearly stated that the players were receiving thymomodulin.

This means, categorically, that either the players were receiving thymomodulin - in which case the players have no case to answer, or whomever produced these records was bullshitting to the players and to everyone else as to what they were being injected with - in which case this person must be charged with either covering up an anti-doping violation, and/or some form of physical assault.


For mine, Hird stating that he's seen records clears Hird of any wrongdoing and clears the players potentially - or outright hangs the people that produced the records.

It has to be one or the other. At this stage, it's neither. That's not good enough.

I actually think it's obsolete in terms of the case trying to prove the players took TB4. Sounds like you just want another bucket of mud to sling. So you feel better.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

I actually think it's obsolete in terms of the case trying to prove the players took TB4. Sounds like you just want another bucket of mud to sling. So you feel better.

It's only obsolete if no one is interested in backing the key players into a corner where one of them eventually will tell the truth.

Essendon have been allowed to lie constantly throughout this saga, and not be held to account. So have others.

That's the only reason this s**t still lingers.


I'd suggest that a key player in the entire thing claiming to have seen these records, is far from obsolete.

It is funny though, how each time something significant comes up it as is describes by Essendon and Essendon supporters as 'obsolete', or 'redundant' or 'storm in a teacup' or similar such terms.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Option 3: he lied.

Which is even worse. If he told ASADA the same thing - then BANG, there's an infraction notice right there. One for Thompson too.


But Essendon people think this is 'obsolete'??

 

[DapperJong]

Which is even worse. If he told ASADA the same thing - then BANG, there's an infraction notice right there. One for Thompson too.


But Essendon people think this is 'obsolete'??

Remember, The 34 don't have to try and disprove anything.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Remember, The 34 don't have to try and disprove anything.

Is this is an admission that 'the 34' and the club don't give two shits about what they actually took and whether they cheated or not - they just care about getting away with it?

 

[Muggs]

Remember, The 34 don't have to try and disprove anything.

So they neither have to prove or disprove anything? So WTF do they do at the CAS?

They don't have to prove anything but think you find they do have counter WADA's argument and cast doubt on it so that WADA cant prove theirs. Which is the same as disproving WADA. They just don't need to put up an alternate argument.

 

[DapperJong]

Is this is an admission that 'the 34' and the club don't give two shits about what they actually took and whether they cheated or not - they just care about getting away with it?

ehehehehe u so funny

 

[DapperJong]

So they neither have to prove or disprove anything? So WTF do they do at the CAS?

They don't have to prove anything but think you find they do have counter WADA's argument and cast doubt on it so that WADA cant prove theirs. Which is the same as disproving WADA. They just don't need to put up an alternate argument.

Of course, a counter-argument, sure. You know what I'm saying! 10 pointz.

 

[Muggs]

You know what I'm saying!

Only about half the time... if I am lucky...

 

[DapperJong]

Only about half the time... if I am lucky...

Decent strike rate tbf

 

[The 747]

Remember, The 34 don't have to try and disprove anything.

With respect Dear Leader, the strategy of not trying to disprove anything has not been especially fruitful for your club, three years on.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

ehehehehe u so funny

You can't 'ehehehehe' this stuff one minute, then cry and sook at how tough this saga has been on the poor players the next.

 

[DapperJong]

With respect Dear Leader, the strategy of not trying to disprove anything has not been especially fruitful for your club, three years on.

Still no guilty finding

You can't 'ehehehehe' this stuff one minute, then cry and sook at how tough this saga has been on the poor players the next.

I'm eheheheing at you, not with you.