Tom Fraser
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Should have Hopes been chosen for the SA tour??
James Hopes
- Thread starter Tom Fraser
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FC stats.
Hopes - 2820 runs @ 30.65, 105 wickets @ 33.49
McDonald - 2067 runs @ 37.58, 104 wickets @ 29.05
I don't think we should be selecting either for the test team but McDonald has a better record and more scope for improvement. Hopes has done a great job in the one dayers.
Hopes - 2820 runs @ 30.65, 105 wickets @ 33.49
McDonald - 2067 runs @ 37.58, 104 wickets @ 29.05
I don't think we should be selecting either for the test team but McDonald has a better record and more scope for improvement. Hopes has done a great job in the one dayers.
Cleavy
Hall of Famer
Based on this seasons Shield form, no.
Cousin Jed
Retired President of BigFooty
[Qld Bias and agenda]Yes[/Qld Bias and agenda]
Really they are pretty much the same player, except one is from Victoria and the other one is from Queensland.
Also one has red hair and the other has a very deep voice that seems too deep for him.
Also one has red hair and the other has a very deep voice that seems too deep for him.
He is neither a good enough batsman or bowler for the test team.
For the one day team?
You know, I will be absolutely howled down for this but he wouldn't be in my one day team either. And it is really harsh because the guy tries his absolute guts out, has bowled really well against New Zealand and his batting at the lower end is more than handy also. His performance generally is good enough to be included in the ODI side.
But I just keeping looking forward to the world cup. Is he in your definitive side for two years time?Would you want him playing for Australia in the world cup final? To me, he is a good player but he is not a star. He is somewhere between average, good or very good. And he is not going to improve either.I also worry about his bowling against the really top international sides with attacking batsman. If you were going to be absolutely ruthless as a selector, you could axe him now and bring in young guys who might not be as good as hopes now, but with games in to them, might be a better prospect for the world cup than Hopes. As said before, it is extremely tough on Hopes as the guy hasn't done much wrong, so I expect to be outvoted here, but I thought I would put in my two cents.
Think of it this way, how many countries ODI side would he get into at the moment?
For the one day team?
You know, I will be absolutely howled down for this but he wouldn't be in my one day team either. And it is really harsh because the guy tries his absolute guts out, has bowled really well against New Zealand and his batting at the lower end is more than handy also. His performance generally is good enough to be included in the ODI side.
But I just keeping looking forward to the world cup. Is he in your definitive side for two years time?Would you want him playing for Australia in the world cup final? To me, he is a good player but he is not a star. He is somewhere between average, good or very good. And he is not going to improve either.I also worry about his bowling against the really top international sides with attacking batsman. If you were going to be absolutely ruthless as a selector, you could axe him now and bring in young guys who might not be as good as hopes now, but with games in to them, might be a better prospect for the world cup than Hopes. As said before, it is extremely tough on Hopes as the guy hasn't done much wrong, so I expect to be outvoted here, but I thought I would put in my two cents.
Think of it this way, how many countries ODI side would he get into at the moment?
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We've had so many injuries, would've been madness to cull him this summer. If we had a fully fit Lee, MJ, Tait, Johnson, Hilfenhaus he'd probably be squeezed out but he still has the best economy of that lot - in fact only a handful in the world - Murali, Vettori, Vaas, and maybe 1-2 others have a better career e/r.
He'll be 32 at the next world cup. He'll still be available, even if only as a depth player.
Hopes is not and never will be a superstar but he is 1 bloke you can rely upon to always give 110% and provide you with 10 of the most economical overs in ODI cricket. He'll also apply pressure down one end whilst snaring a wicket or two along the way.
He isn't flash but he's simply Mr Reliable.
Ideally, he'd be a perfect 5th bowler. The mere fact that the selectors think he is capable of playing as a 4th bowler shows he is pretty highly rated.
He also has pretty handy mid/lower order batting and can swing the bat when required.
Really, in a OD team, you are going to need some strike bowlers and some holders. At the moment MJ and Hilfy are the strikes whilst Bracken and Hopes are the holders. That doesn't mean they don't take wickets, but they bowl a tighter line and length aiming to choke the batsmen.
Without Watson, it doesn't look like Australia have a player capable of being a 5th bowler who performs either 1 of these 2 tasks so I'd suggest he has a role to play for a while yet.
He isn't flash but he's simply Mr Reliable.
Ideally, he'd be a perfect 5th bowler. The mere fact that the selectors think he is capable of playing as a 4th bowler shows he is pretty highly rated.
He also has pretty handy mid/lower order batting and can swing the bat when required.
Really, in a OD team, you are going to need some strike bowlers and some holders. At the moment MJ and Hilfy are the strikes whilst Bracken and Hopes are the holders. That doesn't mean they don't take wickets, but they bowl a tighter line and length aiming to choke the batsmen.
Without Watson, it doesn't look like Australia have a player capable of being a 5th bowler who performs either 1 of these 2 tasks so I'd suggest he has a role to play for a while yet.
courtjester
Cancelled
Sorry mate, I have to disagree.
For starters, Hopes is an EXCELLENT one-day cricketer. He always seems to be mentioned as the guy that "might be dropped", but he is our second most economical bowler (behind Bracken). He could actually be included in the one-day team as a specialist bowler.
His batting is a bonus. He is a good fieldsman, no reason why he wont be around for 2-3 more years.
Hopes will never be a test allrounder, his bowling is about frustration and containment, not so much wicket taking. He buys wickets for himself (and others) in one day games.
And we MUST be picking our best side at the moment, not players on potential. Hopes is easily in our best 11. If we start picking unproven players all we will develop is the culture of mediocrity Australia had in the 80s.
When an allrounder BETTER than Hopes is available to come into the 1 day team, then question Hopes's spot.
* Second highest Aus wicket-taker in the SA one day series at the most economical rate
* Equal highest Aus wicket taker so far in the NZ one day series, at by far the most economical rate
Has proven to be a very good alternative to the pace of Hilf, Bracken, Tait and Johnson. Could and should be picked on his bowling alone at the moment.
To my memory this is possibly the best period of his Australian one-day career (with the ball). So to say he is not going to improve between now and the world cup ignores the fact that he seems to have been improving right in front of our eyes.
If and when both Symonds and Watson return he might be nudged out, but would be silly to rule him out of world cup calculations.
CJ, I basically agree with much of what you said, even though that it was the exact opposite of what I said, if that makes any sense.
The crux of the issue is like you said, picking the best 11 versus players on potential. Your argument is picking our best 11 wheras I would like to see a bit more rebuilding for the world cup in a couple of years. Maybe I am being over pessimistic but I just can't see the best 11 we have at the moment getting close to winning the world cup. Hopefully they will prove me wrong.
I am probably being overfussy spoilt by a decade of players like Gilchrist, Hayden etc who were superstars. And it is extremely unrealistic for me to expect replacements of those, but to me I can't see the sense in playing some of these players who can't take us to the highest level. But as you said, playing players only for potential is not good for a winning culture.
Its an interesting argument. In AFL you would go for the rebuild with younger players. Cricket is a bit different for a number of practical reasons.
I won't quote the brasil again, except in part.
You have a definitive side for the world cup? He's certainly a leading contender in my opinion, and showing enough to warrant sticking with him for a while. No certainty, but nobody is (and few are near certainties, especially with the ball).
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Hopes is a great ODI cricketer, and one of our best performed players this summer. He definitely deserves to be in the side.
Coming in at #8, his job is to bowl (up to) 10 overs and make a few quick runs if required. Which of those things is he not doing? His career average is 32 (just under a wicket per innings) at an economy rate is 4.2 rpo and he averages 20 striking the ball at 87.
Brad Hogg (who was an ODI star) averaged 20 with the bat (lower SR) and 26 with the ball (just over a wicket per innings) going at 4.5 an over.
The real problem with the ODI side at the minute is the poor performance of the pure batsmen and pure bowlers, coupled with the absence of Symonds & Watson who provide additional bowling options.
I don't subscrube to the 'Hopes is only a dibbly-dobbly medium pacer and so-so batsman so shouldn't be in the team' school of thought. Hilfenhaus, Tait & Johnson being able to bowl at 150 km/h means nothing when they can't bowl a 10 over spell under a run a ball and aren't taking bags of wickets. I don't care if our middle order batsmen are FRC superstars if they plod around in the middle overs wasting overs and get out for low scores. Pressure on Hopes' spot in the side should come from performances from other players, not from a perceived lack of 'potential'.
Coming in at #8, his job is to bowl (up to) 10 overs and make a few quick runs if required. Which of those things is he not doing? His career average is 32 (just under a wicket per innings) at an economy rate is 4.2 rpo and he averages 20 striking the ball at 87.
Brad Hogg (who was an ODI star) averaged 20 with the bat (lower SR) and 26 with the ball (just over a wicket per innings) going at 4.5 an over.
The real problem with the ODI side at the minute is the poor performance of the pure batsmen and pure bowlers, coupled with the absence of Symonds & Watson who provide additional bowling options.
I don't subscrube to the 'Hopes is only a dibbly-dobbly medium pacer and so-so batsman so shouldn't be in the team' school of thought. Hilfenhaus, Tait & Johnson being able to bowl at 150 km/h means nothing when they can't bowl a 10 over spell under a run a ball and aren't taking bags of wickets. I don't care if our middle order batsmen are FRC superstars if they plod around in the middle overs wasting overs and get out for low scores. Pressure on Hopes' spot in the side should come from performances from other players, not from a perceived lack of 'potential'.
Not in a million years for the Test team.
But he has been good in ODI this summer. Don't really rate him (which is probably the standard view) but a few other players would be looked at for dropping before Hopes IMO.
I don't like him playing as the 4th specialist bowler though.
But he has been good in ODI this summer. Don't really rate him (which is probably the standard view) but a few other players would be looked at for dropping before Hopes IMO.
I don't like him playing as the 4th specialist bowler though.
up until Friday, Hopes had probably been the best bowler in the series. I think that there should be only one all rounder in the Australian team if Symonds or Watson aren't available, and IMO Hopes should get that spot ahead of Dussey and White.
Well seeing as Dussey and White are being picked as batsmen I fail to see your point.
Hopes is being picked as a specialist bowler.
Isn't Hopes being picked as a bowling all rounder though?
Well he is a bowling all rounder but I'd say he's in the team as a specialist bowler because if he wasn't I think they would have batted him at 7 instead of White and brought in a 4th specialist bowler. However they haven't done that so that leads me to believe that he is being picked as a specialist bowler.
