Jeff Kennett's comments...

[polly63]

Agree with all of that. Wonder how many cat fans REALLY were confident about beating Haw in the 08 GF, even if we were thought to be superior. If that result could have happened against any other team, implying we had an off day, it's reality that it didn't, and we just have to beat the Hawks every time possible, for mental health, and absolutely the 09 GF. Jeff only spoke the TRUTH.

Many Cat fans might suffer "HIC" (Hawk Inferiority Complex) baggage but you're WAY off the mark if you believe that the present bunch of players & officials does. I think Geelong's best team/footy will currently beat Hawthorn's best 6/10 times (I certainly don't underestimate the Hawks, but they aren't a bogey team).

Fwiw (not much) I wasn't confident of winning last year for 3 reasons:
1) Hawthorn's finals form was significantly better than Geelong's;
2) Key Geelong players were unfit/underdone;
3) I didn't think the buzz (absolute determination to win at all costs) was there, certainly not as in 2007. Just my perception.

 

[Pivo]

No ya don't! He's riding on the wave of success created by Ian Dicker at Hawthorn. Just as he did with Alan Stockdale when he was Premier.

And have a look at his level of business success since leaving politics. The media love him cos he's full of it. But we shouldn't be taken in by it.

I guess I should have utilised my emoticon buttons

 

[tazhawk]

The fact is that they do have an edge on us in the games that count.
As good as we are this is a fact.

Once again.

Bingo.

 

[TheTimeCometh]

so, this friday night doesn't count?

this is all very confusing.

 

[ZosoCat]

kennett gets confused between homosexuals and pedophile's so I'm safe to say that he is the biggest conservative loser that knows nothing about football. Don't listen to him.

 

[Last Line Hero]

"...A team that is accountable..."



Does Kennett watch his own side, does he realise that all this talk about defensive "zones", whereby you play off your man, are spawned from his club's tactics.

Amidst his ninkumpoopery that I tended to just disregard as someone attempting to look impressive and make- out they know something about the game when they really know f*ck nothing, I found this statement amusing. Pretty much sums up his true knowledge of football.

Leave it to the players from both sides to do the talking where it matters.

 

[randyzany]

Many Cat fans might suffer "HIC" (Hawk Inferiority Complex) baggage but you're WAY off the mark if you believe that the present bunch of players & officials does. I think Geelong's best team/footy will currently beat Hawthorn's best 6/10 times (I certainly don't underestimate the Hawks, but they aren't a bogey team).

Fwiw (not much) I wasn't confident of winning last year for 3 reasons:
1) Hawthorn's finals form was significantly better than Geelong's;
2) Key Geelong players were unfit/underdone;
3) I didn't think the buzz (absolute determination to win at all costs) was there, certainly not as in 2007. Just my perception.

^^This

If anything the current crop of Geelong players might have underestimated the dawks. Their whole demeanor coming into the GF seemed way too relaxed for my liking.

It may well be the case that the Catters don't any more insensitive to avenge last year's swindle but a bit of extra motivation can't hurt.

 

[witsend]

^^This

If anything the current crop of Geelong players might have underestimated the dawks. Their whole demeanor coming into the GF seemed way too relaxed for my liking.

It may well be the case that the Catters don't any more insensitive to avenge last year's swindle but a bit of extra motivation can't hurt.

This is closer to the truth!
Hawthorn are simply the next best team in the comp right now...everyone knows it..even Hawthorn.
I you get the 2 top teams playing...occasionally the 2nd team will win.
There is no way on God's green earth that Geelong went into the 2008 GF thinking "We may struggle here because Hawthorn beat us a lot in the 80s and 90s"
It's laughable in a professional sporting context. When you've won as many games as the Cat's have lately, you need to manufacture motivation sometimes...not in a GF of course....but on Friday Geelong have an opportunity to kill this BS and I am confident they will.
I repeat...last 10 games...5 all...last 2 games...1 all...Premiership Cups 1 all.
Where's the dominance people?
Don't believe the hype...

 

[darren forssman]

"...A team that is accountable..."

that was actually clarksons quote i think...and according to another hawks poster hawthorn is only accountable when hodge is on the field directing traffic.

so, maybe it should have read:

"...A team that is accountable...only when luke hodge is telling everyone to man up"

 

[TheTimeCometh]

oh, fersure, when hodge comes off the fourteen men he is go with him.

 

[real hawk]

hawthorn has become the AFL powerhouse under Kennett, we have the most members, the most assets, the most money,the most success in the last 40 years ( 10 flags to geelongs 1 ) PLUS the youngest list, incredible training facilities, and best of all the 2008 flag, well done mr Kennett. The cats might beat an underdone hawks this week, and hopefully it will make them feel better, but come septemberour clubs winning culture will be once agian to much for the pussies

 

[goyoucatters]

This is closer to the truth!
Hawthorn are simply the next best team in the comp right now...everyone knows it..even Hawthorn.
I you get the 2 top teams playing...occasionally the 2nd team will win.
There is no way on God's green earth that Geelong went into the 2008 GF thinking "We may struggle here because Hawthorn beat us a lot in the 80s and 90s"
It's laughable in a professional sporting context. When you've won as many games as the Cat's have lately, you need to manufacture motivation sometimes...not in a GF of course....but on Friday Geelong have an opportunity to kill this BS and I am confident they will.
I repeat...last 10 games...5 all...last 2 games...1 all...Premiership Cups 1 all.
Where's the dominance people?
Don't believe the hype...

witsend, the dominance is there plain and simple, because the stats you quote above are correct, but not relevant.

Out of the last ten games we've played against the Hawks, only one really mattered. We lost it.

The 'premiership cups' stat should read Hawks 1 Cats 0. This is all about the head-to-head record between the clubs in big games. Our '07 win bears no relevance because we didn't play the Hawks in finals football that year. In fact, the only time we played them in our premiership year, they beat us...

Geelong's last ten games breakdown against the Hawks is not important. Just like Friday night and the other H & A clash this year are ultimately insignificant. The only games that will matter against the Hawks this year are potential meetings in the finals.

We don't see this the same way, but I am still seething that the club didn't steel themselves to be ready on GF Day last year, rather than waiting for the empty revenge that some believe could be derived from Friday night

I, for one, am not worried about Friday night; a win to us will prove very little, a win by the Hawks (given their current list of 'outs') will underline their sense that they can do us over any time they like.

Ultimately, it won't matter - even if they beat us twice during the regular season, we will still have every opportunity to win against the lesser teams and clinch a top four berth. From there, it will be all about getting to the big day, and knocking off whoever turns up.

But if it is the Hawks, I will be hoping that the 'myth' is discussed in the Cats rooms, because the constant denials of its existence aren't being backed by performances on the field in the games that count.

Yes, I saw us kick away lots of good opportunities on GF day, but I also saw a whole host of our players wilt under the constant pressure of the Hawks when the game was still there to be won. That was the dominance right there...

 

[tazhawk]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Once again 100% on the Money.

 

[hbk_aus]

witsend, the dominance is there plain and simple, because the stats you quote above are correct, but not relevant.

Out of the last ten games we've played against the Hawks, only one really mattered. We lost it.

The 'premiership cups' stat should read Hawks 1 Cats 0. This is all about the head-to-head record between the clubs in big games. Our '07 win bears no relevance because we didn't play the Hawks in finals football that year. In fact, the only time we played them in our premiership year, they beat us...

Geelong's last ten games breakdown against the Hawks is not important. Just like Friday night and the other H & A clash this year are ultimately insignificant. The only games that will matter against the Hawks this year are potential meetings in the finals.

We don't see this the same way, but I am still seething that the club didn't steel themselves to be ready on GF Day last year, rather than waiting for the empty revenge that some believe could be derived from Friday night

I, for one, am not worried about Friday night; a win to us will prove very little, a win by the Hawks (given their current list of 'outs') will underline their sense that they can do us over any time they like.

Ultimately, it won't matter - even if they beat us twice during the regular season, we will still have every opporuntity to win against the lesser teams and clinch a top four berth. From there, it will be all about getting to the big day, and knocking off whoever turns up.

But if it is the Hawks, I will be hoping that the 'myth' is discussed in the Cats rooms, because the constant denials of its existence aren't being backed by performances on the field in the games that count.

Yes, I saw us kick away lots of good opportunities on GF day, but I also saw a whole host of our players wilt under the constant pressure of the Hawks when the game was still there to be won. That was the dominance right there...

You sure that you are a Cats fan?

 

[goyoucatters]

You sure that you are a Cats fan?

I was there last year on the big day, the first time I've ever been at the 'G for the GF, and sat through the torture of another 'big game' loss to the Hawks.

I am a Cats fan through and through, to the point where I am completely fed up with excuses being made for why we continually underperform against this mob wheneever there's something important on the line.

People can suggest I'm disloyal; all I'm yearning for is to see the Cats prove the Hawks wrong when they bang on about how superior they are on the big occasions. At the moment, all the evidence is in their favour.

 

[TheTimeCometh]

Once again 100% what my thoughts are

gawd, coz the post agrees with your train of thought??!?!

ffs.

 

[Last Line Hero]

I, personally, see no significance in what has happened between Hawthorn and Geelong in recent years outside of season 2008. Up until that time both clubs had failed to accomplish anything of note and worse yet (for the most part in our case) endured a very mediocre period in our respective history's. The true rivalry between this generation's Cats and Hawks began last season. Thus Kennett's words about who has beaten who more over the course of the last 5-6 years mean very little.

In saying that, whilst yes, Hawthorn did beat us in the Grand Final (a disappointment that can only pass by inflicting onto them such a defeat), I think the question of who has the edge over who is a little more complex and not so clear cut.

 

[meto]

We come to each game with the selected 22 hoping we've made the right team selections, give or take the couple of injuries teams put up with throughout a year.
What I believe is crucial is team flexibility. If things aren't working, you've got to have plan B and C, forward or back.
That's what cost us so dearly last time, just sitting and watching the game slip away without some radical efforts being made to turn it all around.
Both teams still want to win the first game and get a win on the board, Hawthorn aren't coming with a casual attitude, they will want to win, just like they wanted the flag.
If we win it will be that we're the superior side right at this moment, and that's all any team can do, be the best at this point in time.

 

[polly63]

Yes, I saw us kick away lots of good opportunities on GF day, but I also saw a whole host of our players wilt under the constant pressure of the Hawks when the game was still there to be won. That was the dominance right there...[/quote]

One could argue that Hawthorn dominated some aspects of the GF for some periods of the game, as did Geelong. While clearly the better side overall on the day I saw nothing to think Hawthorn can dominate Geelong at will. I did see some poor selections/matchups and some very 'underdone' players and I surmise this had more impact than any perceived psychological edge. Did you miss round 17? With an understrength side and Hawthorn firing its best guns (yes Hodge was off, but so were some Cats) Geelong still had a good win. Hardly the stuff of dominance. Still, some better thought by the coaching staff will be required this year. I doubt if anyone will accept the simplistic mantra that if we play to our best we can beat any side.

 

[Vdubs]

You sure that you are a Cats fan?

Can't a Cat's fan be objective and state the reality? Everything he says makes sense & maybe we are sick of it, and it doesn't have a lot to do with the current players or coaching staff, as they are all relatively new. Maybe like a lot of us, we have seen it too many times over a long period of time=20 years, where Hawthorn manages to beat us in finals or really big games, like 2 teams vying for a finals spot, and what Kennett said may well only be quashed by us beating them in a final.

 

[hbk_aus]

Can't a Cat's fan be objective and state the reality? Everything he says makes sense & maybe we are sick of it, and it doesn't have a lot to do with the current players or coaching staff, as they are all relatively new. Maybe like a lot of us, we have seen it too many times over a long period of time=20 years, where Hawthorn manages to beat us in finals or really big games, like 2 teams vying for a finals spot, and what Kennett said may well only be quashed by us beating them in a final.

I just think its a very negative and fatalistic view. It was said that out of the last ten games against them (which the score is about even), only one game mattered and we happened to lose that game. One game. Do u think Cam Mooney was lining up from 5 metres out thinking "oh shit, this is Hawthorn we are playing, god, i remember 1989 now, shit, now i am nervous"? Or Brad ottens was strolling in to goal with teammates in the square thinking "now normally i would handball this off, but actually, now i think of it, we ARE playing the mighty Hawks, and they are too good for us, so quick, i better kick it instead"?

This group of players has nothing to do with teams from previous years. They had a bad day on GF day and the Hawks played really well, end of. I have full confidence that this myth will be put to bed this year, and will get behind the boys all the way - they have given us a dam good ride the last couple of years and i , for one, really appreciate it.

 

[winty]

hawthorn has become the AFL powerhouse under Kennett, we have the most members, the most assets, the most money,the most success in the last 40 years ( 10 flags to geelongs 1 ) PLUS the youngest list, incredible training facilities, and best of all the 2008 flag, well done mr Kennett. The cats might beat an underdone hawks this week, and hopefully it will make them feel better, but come septemberour clubs winning culture will be once agian to much for the pussies

You neglected to mention you've also got the most flogs on BF too.

 

[goyoucatters]

Yes, I saw us kick away lots of good opportunities on GF day, but I also saw a whole host of our players wilt under the constant pressure of the Hawks when the game was still there to be won. That was the dominance right there...[/quote]

One could argue that Hawthorn dominated some aspects of the GF for some periods of the game, as did Geelong. While clearly the better side overall on the day I saw nothing to think Hawthorn can dominate Geelong at will. I did see some poor selections/matchups and some very 'underdone' players and I surmise this had more impact than any perceived psychological edge. Did you miss round 17? With an understrength side and Hawthorn firing its best guns (yes Hodge was off, but so were some Cats) Geelong still had a good win. Hardly the stuff of dominance. Still, some better thought by the coaching staff will be required this year. I doubt if anyone will accept the simplistic mantra that if we play to our best we can beat any side.

Totally agree with you about poor selection/match-ups, and underdone players.

Couple of things...

(1) Hawks dominated the GF when it mattered. From 10 minutes into the third quarter until the final siren, they had the better of it. This is the part of the game where we should have been ramming home the superiority we'd shown earlier on.

(2) Saw Round 17. This game was talked up as some incredibly important fixture (I guess because it was so long coming), but there's no doubt the result (i.e. getting the four points) was of very little significance to either team. Neither side was going to have their dreams for glory in '08 shattered by the result. That night I saw our boys have a creditable (but narrow) win, with the Hawks finishing very strongly and making some enormous mistakes in the final few minutes to cruel their chances (Campbell Brown's shanked shot at goal that would have given them all the momentum, and Luke Hodge's turnover at half-back that resulted in the match-sealing goal).

The dominance is all about winning when it really matters - Round 17 2008 will be forgotten in days to come; GF 2008 lives on in the record books.

We all have different ways of dealing with the grief of last year - some will take the admirable approach of putting it down to a bad day; others will reflect on the fact that no other side in footy history has ever (or will ever) have a season like our '08, and not win the flag. I think Hawthorn's self-belief was a big factor in making our incredible season a statistical anomaly.

 

[goyoucatters]

I just think its a very negative and fatalistic view. It was said that out of the last ten games against them (which the score is about even), only one game mattered and we happened to lose that game. One game. Do u think Cam Mooney was lining up from 5 metres out thinking "oh shit, this is Hawthorn we are playing, god, i remember 1989 now, shit, now i am nervous"? Or Brad ottens was strolling in to goal with teammates in the square thinking "now normally i would handball this off, but actually, now i think of it, we ARE playing the mighty Hawks, and they are too good for us, so quick, i better kick it instead"?


This group of players has nothing to do with teams from previous years. They had a bad day on GF day and the Hawks played really well, end of. I have full confidence that this myth will be put to bed this year, and will get behind the boys all the way - they have given us a dam good ride the last couple of years and i , for one, really appreciate it.

About the Moons and Otto thing - quite obviously, no. My point is not about enormous mental fragility amongst our ranks; it's about acknowledging that Hawthown have a palpable sense of confidence that they will have always have enough left to get past our boys when their/our season is on the line. Our current team is not mentally fragile when compared to the majority of the competition (they have shown this clearly over the past two seasons).

However, I still believe that the Hawks have an unwavering belief that they can get the Cats anytime it's really vital, and that's what I want to see dealt with.

I encourage you to keep on getting totally behind our boys this season; I know I will be doing the same. They have given us a great time over '07-'08, and I do appreciate it. Nobody can ever remove the sense of euphoria we felt when the final siren went on the one day in September, 2007.

The fact is we should have felt that way last year too. I just never want to feel the way I did last season again; having played the best footy season that any team has ever put together, and not winning the big one.

Whether I'm totally wrong about all this or not doesn't matter - what matters is that the '09 Cats make it irrelevant by getting the job done this season. This time, they can't let anything stand in their way...