Jesse Hogan Contract Negotiations (Titus O'Reilly)

[JohnW]

If.

The player has to agree to any trade, which puts GWS in a particular position. WCE would go through his manager to investigate whether he'd be interested in playing for them. If McCarthy states it's Freo or bust, WCE can offer a first round pick and it won't change anything - they still have to meet the requirements of the player. GWS would have to weigh up whether the great PR and keeping him on the list another season is worth it, or do what they can to make a trade work. It's on them to make a trade work this period. Which still means we hold the cards in how this plays out.

It's in our best interests to work from the bottom up, than offer say a Mayne pick off the bat, when a 3rd round or less might be enough.

My point originally is that if we were to get Hogan, it diminishes the need we have for another tall forward, which reduces GWS bargaining position further as we have the option to walk away. That's not the same as saying we shouldn't go for Cam - it just means we can potentially get him for cheaper.

I agree that you want the cheapest "purchase price" but you need to also think that you are essentially telling Cam you are not worth anything, but please don't go and play for someone else who actually values you. I'm not sure you want to suggest to one of your targets who just sat our year in his attempt to get to your club that you don't value him enough to pay a reasonably fair price for him.

 

[Wally Walpamur]

I agree that you want the cheapest "purchase price" but you need to also think that you are essentially telling Cam you are not worth anything, but please don't go and play for someone else who actually values you. I'm not sure you want to suggest to one of your targets who just sat our year in his attempt to get to your club that you don't value him enough to pay a reasonably fair price for him.

I disagree. Last year Fremantle said he was worth two first rounders. Now I think he/Colin Young would be smart enough to read between the lines and see after the year that was that the circumstances have changed - One year remaining on a big contract, one year out of the game.

 

[Arcassius]

I agree that you want the cheapest "purchase price" but you need to also think that you are essentially telling Cam you are not worth anything, but please don't go and play for someone else who actually values you. I'm not sure you want to suggest to one of your targets who just sat our year in his attempt to get to your club that you don't value him enough to pay a reasonably fair price for him.

What defines reasonably fair? It's supply vs demand, and a little bit of risk appetite. I think the contract offered to Cam is a better indication of how a club values him than how they negotiate with his former club.

Did he sit out a year because he wanted to play for us, or did he sit out a year because he was struggling to adjust and didn't want to be in Sydney? We seem quick to take the sentimental option.

Ideally he'll end up at Freo.

 

[Keys]

That's the issue.
If we say 3rd round or piss up a rope and you put a second on the table, if I'm GWS I say "Cam, fantastic mate, we can get you home but you're off to West Coast...Is that a problem? Yes? Ok so it's not about going home then? Ok here's the pine you're sitting on for the rest of the year".

True

If it turns into a pissing contest between you guys and GWS I don't think we'd have any hesitation putting pick 30 on the table should any stalemate extend into the last day or so of the trade period

 

[Lach72]

True

If it turns into a pissing contest between you guys and GWS I don't think we'd have any hesitation putting pick 30 on the table should any stalemate extend into the last day or so of the trade period

I'd be surprised if 30 hadn't already been offered, and if we don't offer something better we're complete nongs

 

[Arcassius]

I'd be surprised if 30 hadn't already been offered, and if we don't offer something better we're complete nongs

It's more likely that this whole discussion is academic in the end as we've already got a handshake agreement in place for him.

 

[Wally Walpamur]

True

If it turns into a pissing contest between you guys and GWS I don't think we'd have any hesitation putting pick 30 on the table should any stalemate extend into the last day or so of the trade period

Do West Coast need a McCarthy type or are they better off using that pick in the draft on a midfielder or trade that pick for a midfielder? I don't see that type of player being as pressing at the moment.

 

[Keys]

Do West Coast need a McCarthy type or are they better off using that pick in the draft on a midfielder or trade that pick for a midfielder? I don't see that type of player being as pressing at the moment.

Not a pressing need no but if it becomes an opportunity to get a talented player into the team then you probably take it

A bit like you guys with b hill - you're probably not chasing that type of player but you can't always have a say in when these opportunities come up so you try to take them when you do

 

[Okinakashi]

Not a pressing need no but if it becomes an opportunity to get a talented player into the team then you probably take it

A bit like you guys with b hill - you're probably not chasing that type of player but you can't always have a say in when these opportunities come up so you try to take them when you do

How are you going to offer pick 30 to GWS? After all you'll have already traded it to us for Ballaz.

 

[JohnW]

I disagree. Last year Fremantle said he was worth two first rounders. Now I think he/Colin Young would be smart enough to read between the lines and see after the year that was that the circumstances have changed - One year remaining on a big contract, one year out of the game.

Do you want him or not?

If i am reading thing right the suggestion is that you should play hard ball i.e. offer lower than you think he is worth. I am suggesting you pay what you think he is worth, no more no less.

Offering less sends a crappy message to the rest of the comp about dealing with Freo, makes Cam feel like you guys don't really want him, and sours an already crappy relationship with GWS.

All for the difference between a 2nd and a 3rd or a 3rd and a 4th.

Why would you want to offer west coast an opportunity to get him? Or let Cam even consider it?

 

[Keys]

How are you going to offer pick 30 to GWS? After all you'll have already traded it to us for Ballaz.

West coast will be replacing a window and removing a brick from their offices if that happens

 

[JohnW]

What defines reasonably fair? It's supply vs demand, and a little bit of risk appetite. I think the contract offered to Cam is a better indication of how a club values him than how they negotiate with his former club.

Did he sit out a year because he wanted to play for us, or did he sit out a year because he was struggling to adjust and didn't want to be in Sydney? We seem quick to take the sentimental option.

Ideally he'll end up at Freo.

I am guessing reasonably fair is determined by GWS, as they "own" him and are selling. Yes you can offer 50c on the $1, but they don't have to sell to you. You could even offer 25c next year when he is out of contract, what do you think they will say? How do you think it would make McCarthy feel?

At some point you need to decide if you want him or you don't. If it doesn't get sorted out, you couldn't blame him for opting to change his choice of team.

 

[Okinakashi]

West coast will be replacing a window and removing a brick from their offices if that happens

Just one?

 

[Wally Walpamur]

Do you want him or not?

If i am reading thing right the suggestion is that you should play hard ball i.e. offer lower than you think he is worth. I am suggesting you pay what you think he is worth, no more no less.

Offering less sends a crappy message to the rest of the comp about dealing with Freo, makes Cam feel like you guys don't really want him, and sours an already crappy relationship with GWS.

All for the difference between a 2nd and a 3rd or a 3rd and a 4th.

Why would you want to offer west coast an opportunity to get him? Or let Cam even consider it?

The value of something is what someone is willing to pay for that asset/object. Last year his value to Fremantle (who, at the time didn't realise they were going to have a shit year and offered picks 16 & this year's first, unknown at the time) was much higher than they value him now. In that year Freo understand his value to GWS has diminished - he hasn't played footy, has one less year on his contract which is taking up $400 - $500k of their cap and could sit out another year and walk for nothing. As noted above, the contract offer to Cam would reflect what he's worth to Freo.

Now consider the Jetta/Sinclair trade. Last year Jetta was worth a ruckman because they identified they needed outside speed to progress their list. One year on, with two ruckman injured, and Jetta having an average year (being polite there) I reckon the value to Sinclair now would be greater than a Jetta. Not sure if i've made senses here but if the trade didn't happen last year, you are asking for a lot more than Jetta for Sinclair.

 

[JohnW]

Would be considered trolling had I said that. But yes I understand that what you may be willing to pay for something may change, it's quite obvious.

Anyway the one part you are missing is that while Freo can value him at what ever they want, GWS need to agree, otherwise it's potentially another year with no KPF for freo, and another year on the pine for Cam.

I can only assume he doesn't want to sit out another year, so if freo can't get a deal done, I assume he looks at other options.

 

[Wally Walpamur]

Would be considered trolling had I said that. But yes I understand that what you may be willing to pay for something may change, it's quite obvious.

Anyway the one part you are missing is that while Freo can value him at what ever they want, GWS need to agree, otherwise it's potentially another year with no KPF for freo, and another year on the pine for Cam.

I can only assume he doesn't want to sit out another year, so if freo can't get a deal done, I assume he looks at other options.

His only other option is West Coast after he said trade me back to WA. His value to GWS decreased significantly over the past year; they have an expensive, unproductive asset on their books that could be worth 0 in 12 months time and Fremantle realise this. The risk to Fremantle is West Coast make an offer Fremantle won't match. The only offer I can see Fremantle not matching is if West Coast offer #11 which they won't, so there's no point offering a second rounder when he could be got with #39.

 

[Keys]

His only other option is West Coast after he said trade me back to WA. His value to GWS decreased significantly over the past year; they have an expensive, unproductive asset on their books that could be worth 0 in 12 months time and Fremantle realise this. The risk to Fremantle is West Coast make an offer Fremantle won't match. The only offer I can see Fremantle not matching is if West Coast offer #11 which they won't, so there's no point offering a second rounder when he could be got with #39.

I reckon west coast would be more than happy to offer pick #11 for McCarthy

Doubt north will be happy with that though

 

[meima]

I reckon west coast would be more than happy to offer pick #11 for McCarthy

Doubt north will be happy with that though

As much as i like cam mac with freo, if eagles willing to go foe pick 11 , i am more that happy he is with the eagles .

 

[Keys]

As much as i like cam mac with freo, if eagles willing to go foe pick 11 , i am more that happy he is with the eagles .

I'm going to let you in on a secret

West coast don't have pick 11, north do. Eagles have pick 12

I doubt that will be offered but as always, who knows

 

[Moo]

Why? I skipped school as a kid and my parents had no idea nor are they to blame. Make the kid go to school and do extra work I completely agree with, even make him clean the yards and do a detention after school to top it off.

Just beat the crap out of them with a large eucalyptus branch.

 

[Taylor]

WCE 2016 ND Pick #14 - Sam Powell-Pepper

Will look fantastic hacking the ball out long while Kennedy makes good position and creates a content or marks, once he retires Sam will look like a ball burning big body that won a rising star award.

 

[JohnW]

His only other option is West Coast after he said trade me back to WA. His value to GWS decreased significantly over the past year; they have an expensive, unproductive asset on their books that could be worth 0 in 12 months time and Fremantle realise this. The risk to Fremantle is West Coast make an offer Fremantle won't match. The only offer I can see Fremantle not matching is if West Coast offer #11 which they won't, so there's no point offering a second rounder when he could be got with #39.

His value to GWS has decreased, and unless you pay that decreased price, you will not get him, and he will be either on the side lines, at the eagles, or maybe he will play for GWS rather than sit out two years in a row. How is this a win for freo?

Fast forward to the end of next year, assuming he has sat out another season, you guys will offer even less, GWS send him to the draft I assume and you guys hope he falls to you, unless you have the 1st pick. I guess he could put a price on his head that no other team wants to pay, but then you would wonder would freo want to pay it.

Again, you guys are the ones that want him. Missing out on him is a negative.

 

[wayToGo_]

West Coast have picks #12, #30 and #48. It would be crazy for them to spend #12 on McCarthy because they'd still see themselves in the premiership window and Cam would make no difference to their midfield. As for Hogan or Lobb they can't offer #12 and their 2017 1st rounder because they are in the same position as Freo having traded #17 for Redden last year. They could offer #30 or #48 for McCarthy or Hill but I'd be surprised if we don't have an earlier pick from Mayne's compensation and more than likely from other trades we will likely make plus we have #39, which is well ahead of their #48. Our future picks would also carry more weight than theirs given we finished bottom 4 and didn't even have a chance to "Darling on the Wing" in the finals.

As much as the media says West Coast are in the running for all four of these players, we have better currency for all of them if we want. The only way they could raise more currency would be by trading out their quality players (those in their B22) and I can't see them doing that. Obviously we can't afford both Hogan and Lobb but if we were to get Hogan I couldn't care less about Lobb tbh.

 

[Keys]

WCE 2016 ND Pick #14 - Sam Powell-Pepper

Will look fantastic hacking the ball out long while Kennedy makes good position and creates a content or marks, once he retires Sam will look like a ball burning big body that won a rising star award.

Sounds like a Fyfe to Pavlich combo without the rising star bit

Edit : plus we'll have hogan to take the contested marks after Kennedy leaves

 

[Taylor]

Sounds like a Fyfe to Pavlich combo without the rising star bit

It's more like a big bodied Danyle