JFK Assassination: What is the Truth?

[RisingPhoenix]

I want to be Mooster's friend. I dont care to get into the argument of whether he's right or not (pretty bloody convincing though), but that was such an entertaining way of explaining it.

Normally I'm all tl;dr but I was sad to get to the end of that.

I dont.

Given his arrogant self assurance in his own beliefs, which is no doubt largely based in stuff he has read on professional sceptic sites on the internet, he would probably also be opposed to the idea of extraterrestrial life.

Im not a tinfoil hat wearer by any stretch, but there are some 'conspiracies' which cant be dismissed. JFK/RFK and MJ 12/Roswell would be the two most obvious ones that jump out at me.

Regarding Oswald put it this way. In the small amounts of footage we have of him post assassination, did he strike anyone on here as a crazed 'lone nut' type who had just hours ago murdered the president? Quite the opposite - he seemed quite lucid and calm to me. He was a part of the hit team, then he was set up as the patsy, then disposed of by Jack Ruby too tie up loose ends.

 

[NitroFan]

I dont.

Given his arrogant self assurance in his own beliefs, which is no doubt largely based in stuff he has read on professional sceptic sites on the internet,

As opposed to what? Your personal experience in Dealey Plaza that day?

In the small amounts of footage we have of him post assassination, did he strike anyone on here as a crazed 'lone nut' type who had just hours ago murdered the president? Quite the opposite - he seemed quite lucid and calm to me.

...and? Why does it matter what you or I think of the way he looks?

I'm clearly no expert on the matter, but I'm fairly sure that not every "crazy" person is a raving lunatic with long unwashed hair and tattered clothes.


I like how you accuse Mooster of arrogant self assurance in his own beliefs and then finish off your post with this, as if it's some kind of irrefutable fact

He was a part of the hit team, then he was set up as the patsy, then disposed of by Jack Ruby too tie up loose ends.

Who else was in this hit team?
Where did the shots that hit Kennedy come from?
Were these other hitmen disposed of?
Why did it take them so long to dispose of Ruby/Why didn't they dispose of Ruby? (depending on what your opinion is regarding his cancer)
Why was Oswald "lucid and calm" if he had just been set up?
Why was Ruby chosen as the one to tie this loose end up?

Would you care to point out which parts of Moosters posts are wrong?

 

[EasternTiger]

Would you care to point out which parts of Moosters posts are wrong?

Yeah sure I'll have a crack:

First of all, JFK's head went forward upon impact, but we can get to that later.

If you look at a high contrast photo of Zapruder frame 313, you can clearly see the ejecta travelling up and forward. Quite a bit upward as a matter of fact. This jet effect has been tested so many times that it's really no longer a point of argument. The only time I've seen a test fail was when some conspiracy types filled ceramic skulls with ballistic gelatin. In those tests the skull went forward rather than backward. The problem with their tests is that ballistic gelatin is designed to hold together and register the energy translated by a projectile passing through it. It can act quite a bit like a human torso and similate muscle, skin and fat. It's not designed to act like blood, brain and dura mater which doesn't hold together. When ballistic gel is blasted out it takes the test skull with it much like shooting a rubber band. If you fill a simulated skull with cow or pig brains (which obviously act like brains - being brains) the skull will jump backward toward the shooter. Every time. This also can work with mangoes and most members of the melon family if the tests are conducted properly.

As I stated, even though the majority of the ejecta goes upward and forward, the explosion of the top and right side of Kennedy's skull and brain is going to go in every which way. Some of it backward, but not much of it. One of the key things conspiracy types point to in claiming a shot from the front, and in relation to the ejecta, is the fact that the motorcycle police officer riding just aft and to the left of the Presidential limo got splatter on his windscreen. He described it as driving through a "ligh pink rain." This is easily explainable. The mix of blood and cerebrospinal fluid which blew upward and outward obviously had to fall due to the laws of gravity. It did fall and the cop drove through it a mere moment later.

Not only did JFK's head snap backward (after it goes forward) but his body went back as well. This is due to a neuromuscular reaction - and YES this has been tested and scientifically demonstrated as well. When the bullet destroyed the right hemisphere of Kennedy's brain, his brain sent out a shockwave of electrochemical energy nearly instantly throughout his central nervous system. This activated and caused contractions in all of the muscles south of the head. The muscles of the back are stronger than the ones in front and this results in a dramatic backward arching of the body. The body then goes limp and slumps - in this case to the left. Jet effect, involuntary neuromuscular contraction, followed by a limp slump, and you get "Back and to the left." Back and to the left. Back and to....

Nothing wrong with this, per se. It's just that the 'jet effect theory' and 'neuromusculur reaction theory' also work for a bullet from the front.

The slight forward movement Mooster describes can also be attributed to a bullet striking the head from the front, then the jet effect works its magic, and initially moves his head forward.

The ‘jet effect’ was tested and proven on melons, mangoes, a can of tomato soup...and a goat. None of which were attached to Kennedy's neck when testing. (There is some conjecture the Jet Effect doesn't work when you actually sit a live human in the back of a Lincoln, put a bullet through his throat and back, then one in his head from the front…and one more time from the back. These 2 tests could not be done because of budget constraints, time, insurance clauses, difficulty getting a council permit and 2 live volunteers).

We move on. After the jet effect causes this slight forward movement of the head, the neuromuscular reaction Mooster is describing kicks in, throwing Kennedy violently...back and to the left...back and...

An unconscious and incapacitated brain in the grips of a ‘neuromuscular reaction’ can't distinguish which direction the bullet has come from. Oswald could have been hovering in front of the car, suspended in mid air by racing pigeons, shot a bullet into the front of Kennedy’s head...and to quote Mooster

‘When the bullet destroyed the right hemisphere of Kennedy's brain, his brain sent out a shockwave of electrochemical energy nearly instantly throughout his central nervous system. This activated and caused contractions in all of the muscles south of the head. The muscles of the back are stronger than the ones in front and this results in a dramatic backward arching of the body. The body then goes limp and slumps - in this case to the left. Jet effect, involuntary neuromuscular contraction, followed by a limp slump, and you get "Back and to the left." Back and to the left. Back and to....’

Putting a bullet through someone’s right temple does tend to mess with the right hemisphere of the brain. The neuromuscular reaction is a reflex to trauma in an area of the brain. From which direction this bullet came from is irrelevant.. The brain does not have the capacity to then decide ‘right, I’m supposed to have been shot from the back, I best get into character here and throw my head and body back and to the left for the fillum”.

To sum up, the neuromuscular reaction theory also works with a bullet from the front.

Instead of looking at the Zapruder film and saying 'Yeah bullet from the front thar", the 2 Commissions investigating the murder broke with common sense and convention, and in the process created medical and ballistic science history - giving us new discoveries like The Magic Bullet Theory, the Jet Effect Theory, and the Neuromuscular Theory. A layman - or someone applying Occam’s razor - would have concluded 2 bullets could not have created all this carnage. Although, one has to remember this is no ordinary shooting victim who would respond to bullet wounds in the normal way. This is the PRESIDENT! imho, anyone arguing Kennedy was shot by multiple shooters has no sense of theatre.

Last word from Dallas Police.



[youtube]a7Zk5LNWY8U[/youtube]

 

[Father Jack]

That is a great read, that post by Mooster. It never ceases to astonish me how people can have such strong opinions on things they absolutely nothing about. Like creationists denying evolution, for example.

*Edit, I have no strong opinions on the Kennedy assassination.

 

[Im New]

I used to be a believer in a conspiracy in Dallas; mainly after watching Oliver Stone's movie (fictional) and as someone said its always easy to be sucked into a good conspiracy theory. But after reading just about every book there is on the assassination, and visiting Dealey Plaza (which is nowhere near as large as you imagine) I now believe LHO did it on his own...

He had weeks earlier tried to assasinate the governor of Texas.

He was given a lift to work on the day by a workmate and was carrying something long wrapped in brown paper. He told the workmate it was "curtain rods" (why did he bring them and where di they go?)

The shooting was more than possible from a time perspective, even for someone who wasnt a "great" shooter.

He used several aliases (and had id for those aliases;Alex Hiedel) which were used to buy the gun etc.

The other point re tha Grassy Knoll, and the well known "back and too the left". The interesting thing with this is the shot from the corner of the picket fence (where the grassy knoll gunman was purported to be) is a side on shot to where the headshot hit JFK.. If he was hit from here the head would not have got back and to the left it would have gone toward Jackie and almost certainly the bullet would have gone all the way through his head (causing a huge exit wound on the left side - which there wasnt) and then hit Jackie.

If you have an interest in the assassination and oyu're ever near Dallsa get into Dealey Plaza, walk around and visit the Sixth Floor Museum. Will probaby give you a new perspective.

 

[EasternTiger]

I used to be a believer in a conspiracy in Dallas; mainly after watching Oliver Stone's movie (fictional) and as someone said its always easy to be sucked into a good conspiracy theory. But after reading just about every book there is on the assassination, and visiting Dealey Plaza (which is nowhere near as large as you imagine) I now believe LHO did it on his own...

Wow read all the books huh. You must know heaps about the assassination. Is it true they found the 'magic bullet' like lying on a stretcher beside the governor guy? Is this true? How did it just fall out of his leg?

 

[Illinois Nazi]

Wow read all the books huh. You must know heaps about the assassination. Is it true they found the 'magic bullet' like lying on a stretcher beside the governor guy? Is this true? How did it just fall out of his leg?

Yeah, fancy putting any credence in published studies and actually going to see the scene for himself! How can that possibly stack up against the weight of anonymous websites created by unknown people of no accountability.

 

[EasternTiger]

Yeah, fancy putting any credence in published studies and actually going to see the scene for himself! How can that possibly stack up against the weight of anonymous websites created by unknown people of no accountability.

Huh? Who said anything about anonymous websites. I was merely curious. What are you babbling on about son?

 

[little graham]

 

[CM86]

Bumping a 5 year old thread with a picture was all it took to bring the house of cards down.
The world now understood the JFK assassination.
Job well done, LG!

 

[JoondalupJ]

Next you'll all be on John Wilkes Booth and Abraham Lincoln???

 

[chelseacarlton]

Could that possibly be Lee Harvey Oswald photographed standing in the doorway of the depository just after the first shot?

Make of that what you will.

Why is an Elvis headshot on the flag on the first car to the right?
That's odd!.

 

[Illinois Nazi]

Could that possibly be Lee Harvey Oswald photographed standing in the doorway of the depository just after the first shot?

Make of that what you will.

Could possibly be. Or could even possibly not be. Spooky.

 

[Subutai]

Bumping a 5 year old thread with a picture was all it took to bring the house of cards down.
The world now understood the JFK assassination.
Job well done, LG!

Can you explain it to us?

 

[CM86]

Can you explain it to us?

Che killed him with a ninja star, after JFKs realisation that he was being played as a fool, following the bay of pigs.
Marilyn Munro was actualy Castro all along...
Che was JFK's wife. Giving him such close access with the ninja star.
This is obvious by the way Che tries to escape after killing JFK. But secuirty catch him and make him stay in the car.
All covered up later because the world just wasn't ready...

The security guard was also Buzz Aldrin...

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

Che killed him with a ninja star, after JFKs realisation that he was being played as a fool, following the bay of pigs.
Marilyn Munro was actualy Castro all along...
Che was JFK's wife. Giving him such close access with the ninja star.
This is obvious by the way Che tries to escape after killing JFK. But secuirty catch him and make him stay in the car.
All covered up later because the world just wasn't ready...

The security guard was also Buzz Aldrin...

Needs more reptoids. 7/10.

 

[bomberclifford]

Bit out of left field but there's a new TV series called 11.22.63 based on the novel by Stephen King.
Plays on the doubt around the Kennedy assassination and the involvement of the CIA.

I haven't finished watching the series yet so please, no spoilers.

 

[The Punter]

Is the TV series 11.22.63 just on Stan? Will it make an appearance on more conventional methods of TV in the future?

I loved the book.

 

[Subutai]

Che killed him with a ninja star, after JFKs realisation that he was being played as a fool, following the bay of pigs.
Marilyn Munro was actualy Castro all along...
Che was JFK's wife. Giving him such close access with the ninja star.
This is obvious by the way Che tries to escape after killing JFK. But secuirty catch him and make him stay in the car.
All covered up later because the world just wasn't ready...

The security guard was also Buzz Aldrin...

so ossie shot him you reckon?

 

[bomberclifford]

Is the TV series 11.22.63 just on Stan? Will it make an appearance on more conventional methods of TV in the future?

I loved the book.

I'm watching on Stan. They appear to be releasing them on the same time line as the US.

Don't know about other broadcasters in Oz having the rights.

 

[TheHateful62]

 

[The Punter]

I've immersed myself in this area of study at various times over my life since I was around 10 years old. And eventually you arrive at a position where, of all the possible theories that have been proffered for this crime, the official one, although problematic, may be the most likely scenario. But it's easy to add up all the little granules of doubt (Oswald's demeanour post-arrest, the difficulty of the shoot, the range of eyewitness testimony, the shadiness of Oswald's excursion to the USSR and subsequent attempt to enter Cuba, the whole Cuban-exile-CIA operation in New Orleans and its possible connection to Oswald, the conclusion-first approach that the Warren Commission took, Jack Ruby's murder of Oswald and its circumstances, the wholly unsatisfactory findings of the House Select Committee on Assassinations, the subsequent doubt over the killings of Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King, just to name a whole lot) and arrive at a generic "conspiracy" conclusion.

Many years ago I arrived at the viewpoint that Oswald would have been a highly problematic prosecution. It wouldn't have needed the Chewbacca defense to create reasonable doubt. On the other hand he may have confessed on the Monday if he had lived that long. And that's the problem: we'll never know.

 

[little graham]

And that's the problem: we'll never know.

Intelligent people do know.

 

[CM86]

Intelligent people do know.

Is this you admitting that you don't know?

 

[The Punter]

Intelligent people do know.

Make your case. Any reasonable reading of my post would identify doubt.

Then an unreasonable reading of a post would go something like this:

Only racist people don't recognize that under the union jack British soldiers used biological weapons to wage war on the sovereign owners of this land.

My four year old son is racist.