News John Barker resigns - Post #447

[Juddernaut08]

So far there have been examples given where his line has performed poorly.

The arguments against this have just been about mitigating factors which are important for context.

But where are the examples of where he's helped to improve a line or even individuals in that line? Or even cohesion as a unit?

When your detractors say you're poor and your advocates say youre a nonfactor, thats not a good sign.

Perhaps hes a good bloke and a jack of all trades - thats fine, but Id rather bring someone in who we think could really add something and mentor these guys. Hodge Judd or Mitchell would do me just fine!

 

[Jabba73]

Barker has been at the Blues for quite a period so I understand people questioning his worth. Everyone has to face the music similar to the players.

In my mind, i'm not sure whether he is good or bad. The talent brought in by Hughes and Rogers was soo bad that no one could shine be it a fwd coach or backs coach during that period. Add to that the Malthouse era of poor tactical nous. And then add to that Barker was an assistant and has to conform to the game plan of the head coach...whether he agrees or not.

Also, I'm not sure how anyone can judge given we had no fwd talls of quality during the last 7/8 years.

The one aspect that I think he could have done is be a bit more revolutionary with the 3 amigos. We had no decent talls but we had three decent smalls. Barker could have implemented something a bit better than allow the defence and midfield to kick it high giving our best fwds (our smalls) no chance at all.

Every time the ball came bouncing in along the ground, Betts and Garlett were a good chance to win it more often than not. So developing something around delivery inside 50 that suited those smalls would have been nice. Even P Roos recently suggested in a game that it would be better if the mids kicked it inside 50 along the ground. Not the craziest of ideas.

Still, previously, M Robinson, Curnow, Murphy, Graham, Bell etc were butchers of the ball going inside 50 making the best laid plans look stupid.

Maybe Hughes and Rogers were geniuses and our development was shit? That would be the fault of the coaching department.

Would not matter who they drafted if we could not develop players.

 

[Juddernaut08]

As outsiders, we can clearly see the skill or lack there of, of players over the course of their careers, but as for assistant coaches, how would anyone of us here know if these employees are performing to the level expected of them.

At the end of his playing career at Hawthorn, he was offered a position as a forward coach at St.Kilda for the 07-08 sessions. He was then offered to go back to Hawthorn as a forward coach for the 09-10 seasons and has been with us since 2011.

I am not suggesting he is a bad coach or a good one, as I have no idea, I don't employ him, nor work with him

I would be really interested to know how you or anyone here could appraise his performance in his role, without ANY knowledge of the inner sanctum

https://bigfooty.com/forum/threads/...ches-carlton-double-win.751963/#post-18941146

He had roughhead and franklin and still did jackall. Its not about the personnel under him. Its his coaching.

 

[BlueRenaissance]

Maybe Hughes and Rogers were geniuses and our development was shit? That would be the fault of the coaching department.

Would not matter who they drafted if we could not develop players.

Doubt it. A lot of those players have moved on and are still poor players at AFL/VFL level. Hughes and Rogers were a Carlton horror double act.

 

[Arr0w]

I think it is fair to comment on his performance from the limited exposure we have. If we can comment on the head coach on account of how the team is performing, then we can comment on line coaches in regards to how their 'line' is performing.

That is what this forum is for. If we can discuss the players, head coach, CEO, the board of directors etc... And we aren't in the inner sanctum for any of that.

We can only comment on what we see, feel and perceive.

Barker has been with the club for 6 years now, in a number of different roles. Fair enough for supporters to form views and comment on what they see.

Personally, discussing the performance of a senior coach, who sets the parameters of game plan and structures, which we can all critique based on visual analysis, is a lot different than discussing the performance of one of his assistants, who is employed to managed the agreed parameters. But rather than gong into that in depth, I respect your views and others if you want judge a person based on no knowledge of meeting Bolton's parameters

 

[Arr0w]

https://bigfooty.com/forum/threads/...ches-carlton-double-win.751963/#post-18941146

He had roughhead and franklin and still did jackall. Its not about the personnel under him. Its his coaching.

So you link another thread that has both pros and cons on Barker to justify he is a poor coach?

I am asking you or anyone here, if they have inside knowledge that Barker is a poor coach? If the answer is no, it is an opinion, with no factual evidence.

Respect your views on the matter, but perhaps we should be debating the quality of all our coaches as a collective, rather than singling out one

 

[BigFrizz36]

So far there have been examples given where his line has performed poorly.

The arguments against this have just been about mitigating factors which are important for context.

But where are the examples of where he's helped to improve a line or even individuals in that line? Or even cohesion as a unit?

When your detractors say you're poor and your advocates say youre a nonfactor, thats not a good sign.

Perhaps hes a good bloke and a jack of all trades - thats fine, but Id rather bring someone in who we think could really add something and mentor these guys. Hodge Judd or Mitchell would do me just fine!

Judd joins the Carlton board replacing Adrian Gleeson (football director?) next year
Mitchell retires and has a two year contract as an assistant coach with West Coast as per the three year deal signed last off season.
Hodge has indicated that he will do media next year. May be looking for a gig the following year. Bolts may have an in there.

 

[F_therest]

If it's true he's been a poor line coach surely he wouldn't have such a seemingly high standing in the game?

We cleared out our other assistant coaches a few years ago but Barker stayed...and there were very public comments from Trigg about how good a person he was and how we wanted to keep him on...which we did. I don't think we would have kept him on just for sentimental reasons when the whole place was getting a clean out.

Plus he's rumoured to be favourite for the GC job...surely they've done their homework.

 

[davis_756]

As it stands across 3 clubs over 10 or so years he has never improved a line he has worked with, they have all either remained the same or dropped off.

Personally won't be disappointed if he moves on to another club

 

[Juddernaut08]

So you link another thread that has both pros and cons on Barker to justify he is a poor coach?

I am asking you or anyone here, if they have inside knowledge that Barker is a poor coach? If the answer is no, it is an opinion, with no factual evidence.

Respect your views on the matter, but perhaps we should be debating the quality of all our coaches as a collective, rather than singling out one

Can you read?

The thread is consensus agreement that hes a shit coach.

Firstly that he sucks at Hawthorn

Secondly they reopen the thread and celebrate when he joins Carlton calling us suckers

 

[Juddernaut08]

If it's true he's been a poor line coach surely he wouldn't have such a seemingly high standing in the game?

We cleared out our other assistant coaches a few years ago but Barker stayed...and there were very public comments from Trigg about how good a person he was and how we wanted to keep him on...which we did. I don't think we would have kept him on just for sentimental reasons when the whole place was getting a clean out.

Plus he's rumoured to be favourite for the GC job...surely they've done their homework.

I think hes a below average line coach

Potentially a bit better as a senior coach because of charisma, and big picture thinking

A lot of well educated managers wouldnt necessarily be good technical workers

I think he could be an average senior coach elsewhere

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

I think you should be changing over coaches to invigorate the squad and the coach
Barker isn't an expensive assistant
We're running with cheaper coaching staff than most clubs

 

[Juddernaut08]

I think you should be changing over coaches to invigorate the squad and the coach
Barker isn't an expensive assistant
We're running with cheaper coaching staff than most clubs

Why is that? In a salary capped league, football spending should be priority

 

[Jimmae]

So you link another thread that has both pros and cons on Barker to justify he is a poor coach?

I am asking you or anyone here, if they have inside knowledge that Barker is a poor coach? If the answer is no, it is an opinion, with no factual evidence.

Respect your views on the matter, but perhaps we should be debating the quality of all our coaches as a collective, rather than singling out one

These are the arguments that we used to have over recruitment staff, and clearly the board did as well, until they didn't.

Barker's probably helped with transitioning the new staff over, but frankly I want someone pitching zany tactical ideas to Bolts until they've reinvented the game twice over and given the kids a thorough education on the fundamentals along the way.

Sure, they'll probably wind up being a senior coach in a flash, but instilling that way of thinking in 40+ people can only be the beginning of something amazing.

After the better part of a decade, you can't stand by 'coach's orders' and 'bad luck with injuries' for every set of circumstances. The guy doesn't get results like his counterparts elsewhere, even when he does get reinforcements of his choosing: he wanted more speed around the stoppages last year, and now he's got nothing but options to rotate through even though they're young and/or inexperienced.

I want him and Capuano gone because we've not made any strides in midfield or ruck play since Ratten's tenure, and despite our disposal effiency we've gone back in a hurry since Bolton came on board. We need innovation and communication, and we've got the talent to develop that with going into the future.

Barker is a copycat guy: obviously switched on, but clearly not innovative. Needs to change his mindset in the future so he can get that head coaching job he obviously wants.

 

[Arr0w]

Can you read?

The thread is consensus agreement that hes a shit coach.

Firstly that he sucks at Hawthorn

Secondly they reopen the thread and celebrate when he joins Carlton calling us suckers

What about his time at the Saints? Mist of done a good job there, given he was pouched by Hawthorn?

And yes I can read, both sides of the argument, some of which I have listed below.

Lets remember Assistant Coaches take instructions

I'm sure jb tells that peanut roughy to take a mark20m out but take a 300meter run up and kick from 45 . Players have to be somewhat to blame

Correct, Clarkson is responsible for Ass coaches, game plan is to taxing, lack genuine pace through midfeild and Franklin / Roughhead are not leading up to the ball carrier with any conviction. Definite leadership issues within the playing group and coaching staff and administration lack cohesion. Barker is but a small problem. Time to take stock.

If you have some agenda with Barker, based on what people on this board have to say, that is your prerogative. The facts are, you have no facts, just an opinion, which you are entitled too

 

[Arr0w]

These are the arguments that we used to have over recruitment staff, and clearly the board did as well, until they didn't.

Barker's probably helped with transitioning the new staff over, but frankly I want someone pitching zany tactical ideas to Bolts until they've reinvented the game twice over and given the kids a thorough education on the fundamentals along the way.

Sure, they'll probably wind up being a senior coach in a flash, but instilling that way of thinking in 40+ people can only be the beginning of something amazing.

After the better part of a decade, you can't stand by 'coach's orders' and 'bad luck with injuries' for every set of circumstances. The guy doesn't get results like his counterparts elsewhere, even when he does get reinforcements of his choosing: he wanted more speed around the stoppages last year, and now he's got nothing but options to rotate through even though they're young and/or inexperienced.

I want him and Capuano gone because we've not made any strides in midfield or ruck play since Ratten's tenure, and despite our disposal effiency we've gone back in a hurry since Bolton came on board. We need innovation and communication, and we've got the talent to develop that with going into the future.

Barker is a copycat guy: obviously switched on, but clearly not innovative. Needs to change his mindset in the future so he can get that head coaching job he obviously wants.

I understand how you feel Jim, good that you included Capuano as well, but I will say it again, none of us know if any of the assistants are performing based on the mantra and instructions they are given

 

[Juddernaut08]

What about his time at the Saints? Mist of done a good job there, given he was pouched by Hawthorn?

And yes I can read, both sides of the argument, some of which I have listed below.

Lets remember Assistant Coaches take instructions

I'm sure jb tells that peanut roughy to take a mark20m out but take a 300meter run up and kick from 45 . Players have to be somewhat to blame

Correct, Clarkson is responsible for Ass coaches, game plan is to taxing, lack genuine pace through midfeild and Franklin / Roughhead are not leading up to the ball carrier with any conviction. Definite leadership issues within the playing group and coaching staff and administration lack cohesion. Barker is but a small problem. Time to take stock.

If you have some agenda with Barker, based on what people on this board have to say, that is your prerogative. The facts are, you have no facts, just an opinion, which you are entitled too

My only agenda is seeing our club improve on all fronts. I have never met the guy so have nothing personal against him. I generally like all things Carlton so I'd probably buy him a beer.

Here are the facts. In this thread:

Multiple posters have pointed to lines he has coached which have stagnated or gotten worse.

No posters have pointed to lines he has coached which have improved.

 

[Arr0w]

My only agenda is seeing our club improve on all fronts. I have never met the guy so have nothing personal against him. I generally like all things Carlton so I'd probably buy him a beer.

Here are the facts. In this thread:

Multiple posters have pointed to lines he has coached which have stagnated or gotten worse.

No posters have pointed to lines he has coached which have improved.

Okay

 

[mediumsizered]

As outsiders, we can clearly see the skill or lack there of, of players over the course of their careers, but as for assistant coaches, how would anyone of us here know if these employees are performing to the level expected of them.

At the end of his playing career at Hawthorn, he was offered a position as a forward coach at St.Kilda for the 07-08 sessions. He was then offered to go back to Hawthorn as a forward coach for the 09-10 seasons and has been with us since 2011.

I am not suggesting he is a bad coach or a good one, as I have no idea, I don't employ him, nor work with him

I would be really interested to know how you or anyone here could appraise his performance in his role, without ANY knowledge of the inner sanctum

As you have posted, 3 different clubs have specifically sought him out as a coach (St Kilda appointed him just as Hawthorn were considering him for a coaching position after he retired as a player) & should the Suns appoint him as coach, that will mean 4 different clubs have seen something in him. He must be doing something right.

 

[mediumsizered]

My only agenda is seeing our club improve on all fronts. I have never met the guy so have nothing personal against him. I generally like all things Carlton so I'd probably buy him a beer.

Here are the facts. In this thread:

Multiple posters have pointed to lines he has coached which have stagnated or gotten worse.

No posters have pointed to lines he has coached which have improved.

In the cut-throat AFL environment 3 clubs have so far seen fit to employ Barker. One can only assume in such a cut-throat environment that clubs aren't going to appoint a coach because they're a nice bloke (leave that selection criteria to the media).

You have to ask, did Hawthorn steal him from St Kilda because he was a shit line-coach? Did we steal him from Hawthorn because he was a shit line-coach? Has he been sacked from any of the 3 clubs who have appointed him?

In saying that Barker is a shit line-coach, it is also implying that 3 AFL clubs (maybe, a fourth one soon) have shit selection processes when choosing their coaches.

 

[Wickzki]

In saying that Barker is a shit line-coach, it is also implying that 3 AFL clubs (maybe, a fourth one soon) have shit selection processes when choosing their coaches.

I agree.

Ironic that two of those clubs were building to some of their most successful parts of their club's history even if he had left the clubs prior to that. Sure, Saints didn't end up winning a premiership but they got to the grand final. It'd be like Carlton contending in 2020 and beyond and not being able to recognize the building years from the end of 2015 to that realization point.

 

[Jabba73]

In the cut-throat AFL environment 3 clubs have so far seen fit to employ Barker. One can only assume in such a cut-throat environment that clubs aren't going to appoint a coach because they're a nice bloke (leave that selection criteria to the media).

You have to ask, did Hawthorn steal him from St Kilda because he was a shit line-coach? Did we steal him from Hawthorn because he was a shit line-coach? Has he been sacked from any of the 3 clubs who have appointed him?

In saying that Barker is a shit line-coach, it is also implying that 3 AFL clubs (maybe, a fourth one soon) have shit selection processes when choosing their coaches.

Jed Lamb has had three clubs chase his services, certainly no world beater on his own merits.

Could be a product of looking good because of others around him or he is the one able to be pried loose from a good setup because he is deemed expendable.

Being chased does not always imply success at an individual level.

 

[Dramoth]

I think that by now everyone should know my attitude towards Barker as an assistant coach... he is shocking. However, as a senior coach, he is much better than his assistant coaching record suggests.

My biggest issue is that he is a linear thinker and can't innovate. He plays straight lines instead of making jumps of intuition... however, as a senior coach, he can come up with some reasonable idea.

That being said, I reckon that he will do well at GC17... get them a number of low picks and then get the arse!

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I think JB is a good man manager and that is his attraction. I'm not sure he is good at teaching or development.

 

[katmanblue]

Why is that? In a salary capped league, football spending should be priority

Well, we are also running with a cheaper playing list the last few years.

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