Coach John Longmire

[Blacky]

We are vastly underperforming the talent on the list and have repeatedly failed to show up to big games.

I simply find it hard to lay the blame squarely at the feet of the players. Sure if a couple were underperforming, but it is a vast number. I just don’t see how it is easier to blame them than the common thread ie the person in charge of the gameplan, game day changes and getting the players prepared for the game.

 

[J_Moore]

I mean there is literally a poll on this thread...

Which poll option suggests a belief that Longmire, or the club more generally, can’t do anything wrong?

 

[Blacky]

Which poll option suggests a belief that Longmire, or the club more generally, can’t do anything wrong?

The one that says his tactics are irrelevant because the players let him down?

 

[Blacky]

I can provide a screen shot if you like

 

[J_Moore]

The one that says his tactics are irrelevant because the players let him down?

I’m not rsure that’s what that option is suggesting. I’d say it’s more what you’d vote for if you thought that the primary cause of the team underperforming (in the first 7 rounds of last year, when the poll was created) was the players’ effort/execution, and so immediately firing the coach mightn’t be the wisest option. I don’t think it’s saying that Longmire can never do anything wrong.

 

[Tedeski]

The most logical thing is that this is the fault of 22 individual people combining rather than the bloke who picks the team and builds the gameplan.

Multiple All Australians are each playing sub par footy, but the coach is infallible.

Hmmmm

Question with short notice.
When they won All Australian, who was their coach.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Blacky]

Question with short notice.
When they won All Australian, who was their coach.

Thanks in advance.

I’ll answer that question with a question.
So when they’re playing well Horse is the reason but when they’re all playing badly it’s their individual fault?

 

[Wolftone]

Think he just genuinely doesn't know what to do with players like Hayward, Rohan, Papley, Jones, Heeney etc... players that want to play attacking footy, not scrappy, conservative footy. When Jones was first starting out, he was a kid and played like a kid - he had this license to just roam off half back, and his kicking was actually pretty good because of it. He was so important in the 2016 prelim final. Now he's been moulded into almost a permanent mid, and how can he play his natural style if he's basically in a rolling scrum? No wonder his kicking has turned to shit.

I think Longmire is in a conundrum because a lot of our young kids aren't really compatible with the old, scrappy Bloods way of playing footy. They want to play attacking footy with dare and energy, but the game plan just does not allow it.

I agree with all of this. Longmire is incapable of being an attacking coach. He doesn't mould a game plan to the players at his disposal he expects them to mould to his game plan. we don't have the players to pull that off anymore. This new breed are different. But horse is too bloody stubborn or plain stupid to understand this. Like in 2011 when Goodes, O'Keefe & co approached him and told him a lot of home truths, the senior players have to take the responsibility and demand a meeting with him to discuss the game plan.

 

[Blacky]

I agree with all of this. Longmire is incapable of being an attacking coach. He doesn't mould a game plan to the players at his disposal he expects them to mould to his game plan. we don't have the players to pull that off anymore. This new breed are different. But horse is too bloody stubborn or plain stupid to understand this. Like in 2011 when Goodes, O'Keefe & co approached him and told him a lot of home truths, the senior players have to take the responsibility and demand a meeting with him to discuss the game plan.

I think Heeney is the exception to this and it’s why he is our best besides Buddy this season

 

[Wolftone]

What more do we want? We were getting steam rolled for a half, our leaders didn't show up, centre clearances dysfunctional

And he still put us in a spot to win it

Not ideal from a few people but clearly the right man for the job I would think

He can't make Kennedy and parker show up or heeney and bud kick straight

no it was him that put us in the position to lose it in the first place. It was his defensive game plan, old mids set ups and one behind the ball that almost lost it and then an even more extra allowed us to almost catch up simply because the Crows went to sleep and other than that couldn't kick goals. We were lucky to get withing 10 points. There was no organisation in that. Our play was a disgrace. If it were not for their bad kicking we would have lost by 10 goals not points. So stop defending the prick. HE JUST CAN'T ATTACK AND USE THE BLOODY TALENT HE HAS. HE JUST DEFENDS!!!

 

[Blacky]

We were just beaten by a decimated team and their out of form players beat up on us.

I’m seriously wondering how this isn’t a large part the fault of the coaches

 

[Wolftone]

Surely the problem is as much about recruiting/list management as it is about coaching.

No it's not. Horse wanted certain types of players. But unfortunately he is stuck in this ultra defensive mode and can't get out of it to use the talent. We have huge talent and it's being wasted by a second rate coach.

 

[mikey_san]

No it's not. Horse wanted certain types of players. But unfortunately he is stuck in this ultra defensive mode and can't get out of it to use the talent. We have huge talent and it's being wasted by a second rate coach.

I don't disagree much at all. But who would you rather? Besides Clarko who I'd think isn't going anywhere.

 

[Wolftone]

Just thought about something. Our defence has always been based on pressure further up the ground. Pressure that causes high bombs from opposition teams that we can clean up easily in our defensive 50. Essentially forcing stupid, unclean high kicks from the opposition into their attacking 50 is the motto. Nothing wrong with that. Makes sense. But then why is it that our coaching panel makes us do the same at the other end. Surely if we have realised that forcing unclean entries from the opposition makes our job easier in defence then we have also learnt that it is going to be conversely true for the other side right? Yet we seem hell bent on doing the exact same thing oursleves. Something doesn't compute in my head.

We have used the full flood more than any side in the competition this year. This flood does not give you forward of defensive 50 options. It is a stupid option and should never be used.

 

[J_Moore]

We were just beaten by a decimated team and their out of form players beat up on us.

I’m seriously wondering how this isn’t a large part the fault of the coaches

Is it possible to think that he coached poorly in periods of Friday’s game, without wanting to have him fired?

Like how it might be possible to acknowledge that Josh Kennedy has played a couple of bad games, without deciding that his delisting is imminent, which is my other favourite thread on here at the moment.

 

[Tedeski]

I’ll answer that question with a question.
So when they’re playing well Horse is the reason but when they’re all playing badly it’s their individual fault?

No Horse has had some bad moments & most of them for me are at the selection table when he chooses to go with players carrying an injury but that is more because he trusts his player/s that have given him good service to be honest with their capabilities of playing injured. He needs to remove this decision from the player no matter how good they've been in the past.

He also has bad games in the box. The other night wasn't one of them though & the players proved it because they put in a better effort in the second half.

Who should be our coach next year. Now don't talk about who we shooda, wooda, cooda.
Next year?

 

[Blacky]

Is it possible to think that he coached poorly in periods of Friday’s game, without wanting to have him fired?

Like how it might be possible to acknowledge that Josh Kennedy has played a couple of bad games, without deciding that his delisting is imminent, which is my other favourite thread on here at the moment.

The big difference is that Josh performs in big games

 

[Blacky]

No Horse has had some bad moments & most of them for me are at the selection table when he chooses to go with players carrying an injury but that is more because he trusts his player/s that have given him good service to be honest with their capabilities of playing injured. He needs to remove this decision from the player no matter how good they've been in the past.

He also has bad games in the box. The other night wasn't one of them though & the players proved it because they put in a better effort in the second half.

Who should be our coach next year. Now don't talk about who we shooda, wooda, cooda.
Next year?

I’d basically take some bloke off the street to be honest. I’m resigned to Horse being unequiped to get the job done in the current league, so why not roll the dice.

But seriously I’d take Guy McKenna over Horse 11 times out of 10.

 

[Wolftone]

And JPK

this was JPk's decision not Clarkson's. Clarkson wanted JPK to stay but his role would have been mainly as a forward at that stage. JPK did not see himself as a forward.

 

[J_Moore]

The big difference is that Josh performs in big games

John’s had some bad big games and some very good ones.

 

[Blacky]

He also has bad games in the box. The other night wasn't one of them though & the players proved it because they put in a better effort in the second half.

Is it not possible that the players made him look good in the second half after his gameplan put us in a massive hole to begin with?

He is in charge of getting the players ready and putting a plan together. Friday does not instill me with confidence

 

[Wolftone]

Question with short notice.
When they won All Australian, who was their coach.

Thanks in advance.

That is obvious Ted but times move on and Longmire has failed to move with the times. He's yesterday's coach.

 

[Wolftone]

I think Heeney is the exception to this and it’s why he is our best besides Buddy this season

Heeney is an out and out star. But even he is getting frustrated. He is being made to play forward to the detriment of the midfield all for Horse's inability to come up with anything else. He is robbing Peter to pay Paul. Heens needs to start mid stay mid and have small rests in the forward-line. We need another option forward. Maybe one of the younger blokes. Just take a bloody risk for ****s sake. Put Rose there. Try McCartin, his last game in the reserves was really good. for ****'s sake try something. do something wioth he forward set ups. Kick to players who lead for ****'s sake. But it's not in the game plan, Horse just bombs it in!!!!

 

[Tedeski]

That is obvious Ted but times move on and Longmire has failed to move with the times. He's yesterday's coach.

Bring on Guy McKenna then.
Looking forward to it actually.

 

[Wolftone]

I don't disagree much at all. But who would you rather? Besides Clarko who I'd think isn't going anywhere.

I don't know about that they are negotiating his contract now. I'd also look at Bolton as I don't think Carlton is a good match for him. the reason I think that is because Carlton is a basket case and Bolton is not. I believe with our list Bolton would have a premiership within one year.

Other than that nobody else even comes close although I'd think about Sam Mitchell after his stint at the Eagles. This guy knows how to win, has a no holds barred attitude, is a hard as nails, won't take no for an answer and is demanding of success.

I also think Luke Hodge will make a wonderful coach but not just yet.

The reason I point out those guys is because they all have success written all over them. I'd love to see Mitchell as a senior coach, Hodge his offsider, Stevie J, Rhyce Shaw, Brett Kirk, Dean Cox. All premiership players. All demand success. Even Shaw as senior coach would be good. He went away from the Longmire game plan to win reserves matches.