Coach John Longmire

[Jewelsbon]

We haven’t won anything in a long time with arguably our best list ever.

It seems one of the most commonly accepted and agreed statements in footy is that it takes talent and a whole lot of luck to win a flag - we have had the talent but we just haven't had the luck the past five years.
I am someone who subscribes to the theory that you make your own luck and often we do, but some games the ball just bounces the wrong way or injuries hit at the wrong time or the ump sees things completely different to how we see them and there really is nothing that can be done about those things, one of the best things about our team though, is that even when we are playing dreadful football, it's pretty rare that we aren't any chance to win the thing. It is therefore frustrating (to me at least) when I read on here that its all Longmires fault and he is not a good coach. Yes he must shoulder a portion of the blame but not the 100% that many on here aim at him.
I'm not saying Longmire is perfect, but his record shows he is a wonderful coach and to say anything else is simply false, and yes we've been in the premiership window for a while now with only one flag to show for it, but year in and year out we are in the position to at least contend for it and that in no small way has to be credited to Longmire.
Acccording to AFL Tables, the only current coaches with a better winning percentage than Longmire is Scott (of the Chris variety) and Pyke, even the amazing, mystical Clarkson is the best part of 6% behind Longmire over their careers to date (https://afltables.com/afl/stats/coaches/coaches_idx.html)
So at the basis of my long rant here is a few questions;
1. If not Longmire than who and why?
2. Would you rather be in the position to contend year in and year out or drop right down and build up?

 

[Blacky]

That generally means he can't coach & perhaps he can't.
My argument has always been what do we do about it now without destabilising the club, & if it's a change for the sake of change, who do we get & it couldn't have been Dew because Horse is contracted & as midfield coach for the last few years, what happened to our midfield in the final against Geelong last year?

Why does the buck stop with Dew and not Horse?

 

[Kirkswan]

The best thing for us as a team is to not have Buddy there for a couple of weeks. Last week was the first time in a few years where we lowered our eyes and hit targets. The minute we start lowering our eyes on a consistent basis is the minute we will become as good as we can. The kick to Buddy shouldn't be every single forward entry.

Really? We won 16 of the last 19 games in 2017, and 4 of the first 6 in 2018, and you're talking about a lack of consistency? How many other teams have this kind of record?

If we are not hitting more targets than we are missing, then how the hell did we achieve this kind of record? All teams miss targets under pressure, we are certainly not alone in that...

 

[Magbrix]

I'm part of the camp that finds this constand negativity and vitriol (by some not all) against Longmire baffling. In the Geelong game for example some posters seem to be hassling the coach for not being in front all the way through and letting Geelong get to the front rather than praising the coaching team for a great win. When:
A) there's another team wanting to win - on thier homeground and with a distinct free kick advantage
B) despite that we should have been in front but it wasn't the coach but the ridiculous misses in incredibly easy spots (looking at you Heeney and Parker) that meant instead of being at least 6 points up we were 22 points behind at 3 Q time. But they got it together and that was one of the prettiest last quarters of football I've seen in a while - a credit to the players and the coaches.
Someone else was even claiming that the last Q required a mutiny in the coaches box with absolutely no evidence at all - really!!
And finally I think I'd leave it to the players to identify who they want coaching for them - they got it right with Roos and they seem pretty happy with Longmire. Yes we lost the SF horribly last year but to do so we had to achieve a winning run no other team had done in AFL history. Takes a bit of faith in each other to do that. Possibly in building that mutual faith he errs too much on the side of his senior players (something I'd love to see finessed) but frankly I see a hell of a lot more good than bad in his approach.

 

[Number37]

Are people really saying he can't coach? I thought the dissatisfaction with Horse is more due to the belief that he's too predictable (you don't have to agree with this of course), not that he can't coach.

It has been suggested that his excellent coaching record is function of an excellent list.
It has also been suggested many times that despite his excellent coaching record we have underachieved during his tenure.

It is a pathetic cop out to say "I never said he can't coach" when the clear inference from both of those suggestions is that he can't coach.

 

[Kummerspeck]

if you are going to say something is demonstrably false it might be a good idea to demonstrate it. For me we are always trying to slow the game down with stoppages and play extras in defence. Just like with roos.

How many times did Roos have this team averaging more than 95 points a game? Horse has every almostv every year he's been in charge including 3 years averaging over 100.

sorry, but i switch off when people talk about umpiring to justify anything let alone poor coaching.

Not justufyjus poor coaching, pointing out that the coaching got us repeated opportunities in dangerous positions that were taken away by events that the team couldn't control.

 

[CheapCharlie]

If we don't make finals for 2 consecutive years then i reckon we should be looking at whether Horse should go, otherwise one of the strengths of Sydney is our relative stability at coaching and board level the last 20 years

Having said that... I really hope that with Buddy out, and when he comes back, we totally revise our avenues to goal
The talent is there for us to score

 

[Tedeski]

How's about we just let Horse coach out his contract win, lose or draw & by then Bolton will be available for our 10 year rebuild.

 

[caesar88]

How's about we just let Horse coach out his contract win, lose or draw & by then Bolton will be available for our 10 year rebuild.

Not sure there was a more cringe-worthy and simply false line dribbled this week than Bolton saying it's Carlton's first ever rebuild.

 

[The Swans Blog]

Exactly.
Sack Horse!

As I tread back and forth, I slowly pull out my hand cannon, cocking the hammer in one smooth motion as I level it...

 

[bungee]

I went to every match one season when we won two games, both against Fitzroy. I watched for each spark of hope. I went through the misery of the Pratts, Murdochs, Ayletts and Hamilton exiling my club. I observed the brief sparks in the 80s, the embarrassment of the early 90s.

Yes the current era has been phenomenal and I still can not credit the joy I felt in 05. However we have through good management assembled good lists over the past 22 years. We have been in the window for some time but snagged just one flag. 2014 was appalling and 2016, despite umps and injuries was unforgivable.

We are still in the window. Both Blind Freddie the Bulltosser and Jack Hill the Blind Miner can see that our coaching and selection standards have been somewhat less than optimal. Most of us when pointing out the often bleedin' obvious about mule-ish coaching and selection decisions are NOT being negative. We want better for the Club and higher levels of achievement.

It is not being disloyal to criticise error. It is arguably disloyal to paper over the cracks and pretend everything is ok like some latter day Dr Pangloss from Candide or Rebecca from Sunnybrooke Farm.

Oh, do the freakin' math. We've played 5 Grand Finals and won 2 Premierships in just 12 years. We've played more years of finals than any other team in the same period. We're enjoying the most successful period since before Kenny was born. If Horse is a poor coach that makes every other coach we've had and most of the current crop of coaches complete and utter shite.

No wonder you lived through years of disappointment. You've confused us with Carlton.

 

[bungee]

I feel this applies to all our victories, and hence alot of the angst towards the coaching staff.

Luck and a few poor shots has been part of football since the ball was invented. The luck swings both ways as does the poor shots. The one with the best luck and fewest mistakes gets an advantage on the day but it may not be enough. That's footy.

All you're really confirming is that Horse relies on us playing footy to win games. Lucky he's a footy coach

 

[bungee]

We haven’t won anything in a long time with arguably our best list ever. We also took a massive risk with Buddy’s contract, one that some would argue jeopardises the years following his decline/retirement.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable for people to want success. The last two flags have been up for the taking with no clear cut amazing team.

Horse was part of building that list and with it we've enjoyed the most prolific period in the Swans history. And believe me, 2014 GF there could be a hundred reasons why we failed to fire but there's no way the 2016 GF result was down to Horse. 2017 made the finals with a miracle after injury threatened to wipe out our season. The first team to ever do that from 0-6 (or even 0-5). No big surprise that we ran out of steam, the team had been driven so hard for so long.

It's the definition of success that is confusing some people. Only Geelong and Hawthorn, that's just 2 of 17 other clubs, have enjoyed our success or better over the last 12 years. The idea that in pursuit of a 'perfect' coach we could end up throwing away one of the best and sliding back into oblivion is a real concern.

Fortunately there is no way in hell that our club would follow the recommendations of a few fools who think a TV commentary team know the first thing about coaching. They couldn't understand how the Swans won at the cattery despite a severe depletion of talls. All they could go on about was "the spare man". They didn't understand a strategy to defend, congest and pick our way through the Cats until we could break, run and tear the game apart in the last. It came off even despite some of our players seemingly doing their best to mess it up (looks at Parker).

 

[Kirkswan]

Horse was part of building that list and with it we've enjoyed the most prolific period in the Swans history. And believe me, 2014 GF there could be a hundred reasons why we failed to fire but there's no way the 2016 GF result was down to Horse. 2017 made the finals with a miracle after injury threatened to wipe out our season. The first team to ever do that from 0-6 (or even 0-5). No big surprise that we ran out of steam, the team had been driven so hard for so long.

It's the definition of success that is confusing some people. Only Geelong and Hawthorn, that's just 2 of 17 other clubs, have enjoyed our success or better over the last 12 years. The idea that in pursuit of a 'perfect' coach we could end up throwing away one of the best and sliding back into oblivion is a real concern.

Fortunately there is no way in hell that our club would follow the recommendations of a few fools who think a TV commentary team know the first thing about coaching. They couldn't understand how the Swans won at the cattery despite a severe depletion of talls. All they could go on about was "the spare man". They didn't understand a strategy to defend, congest and pick our way through the Cats until we could break, run and tear the game apart in the last. It came off even despite some of our players seemingly doing their best to mess it up (looks at Parker).

On this, I believe that Sydney and it's use of congestion as a strategy are one of the main reasons they are looking at changing game to create less congestion.

They have done everything they can over the last 10 years or so to 'even' up the competition, but still we make the eight.

EDIT: Also, the TV commentators are not coaches for good reason. If they could be, the would be as they could earn a lot more money, but they simply don't have they necessary skills. They are simply ex-footy players who were stars in their time. Roos and Lethal being the exceptions, neither of whom are big on criticising coaches or strategies.

 

[bungee]

I'm part of the camp that finds this constand negativity and vitriol (by some not all) against Longmire baffling. In the Geelong game for example some posters seem to be hassling the coach for not being in front all the way through and letting Geelong get to the front rather than praising the coaching team for a great win. When:
A) there's another team wanting to win - on thier homeground and with a distinct free kick advantage
B) despite that we should have been in front but it wasn't the coach but the ridiculous misses in incredibly easy spots (looking at you Heeney and Parker) that meant instead of being at least 6 points up we were 22 points behind at 3 Q time. But they got it together and that was one of the prettiest last quarters of football I've seen in a while - a credit to the players and the coaches.
Someone else was even claiming that the last Q required a mutiny in the coaches box with absolutely no evidence at all - really!!
And finally I think I'd leave it to the players to identify who they want coaching for them - they got it right with Roos and they seem pretty happy with Longmire. Yes we lost the SF horribly last year but to do so we had to achieve a winning run no other team had done in AFL history. Takes a bit of faith in each other to do that. Possibly in building that mutual faith he errs too much on the side of his senior players (something I'd love to see finessed) but frankly I see a hell of a lot more good than bad in his approach.

Just 27 posts and making more sense than a few experienced posters here. Well done.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

C'mon Bungee. Please tell me you were not frustrated when it took two quarters to respond to the Cat's loose man in defence and relieved when the Coaching Box opted to go man on man.

 

[J_Moore]

C'mon Bungee. Please tell me you were not frustrated when it took two quarters to respond to the Cat's loose man in defence and relieved when the Coaching Box opted to go man on man.

The biggest issue with the 2nd and 3rd was we got smashed in contested ball, wasn’t it?

It made it difficult to go man-on-man since we weren’t getting our hands on the football, and our defence needed boosting as a result.

 

[SwansProudly]

Nick Davis, who has been appointed the Academy’s Talent ID and Development Manager says "John wants me to find a full spine of players in the next five years".
http://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/2018-05-02/davis-takes-on-new-challenge
Now that is planning for the future!

 

[Kiama Chris]

Nick Davis, who has been appointed the Academy’s Talent ID and Development Manager says "John wants me to find a full spine of players in the next five years".
http://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/2018-05-02/davis-takes-on-new-challenge
Now that is planning for the future!

And that my friends is why Longmire is not just a good HEAD coach but an outstanding one. For sure he has his quirks and occasional favourites but as a former manager myself I am full of admiration for his achievements:
1) Took over seamlessly as head coach after Roos with no apparent coach, footy department or player issues.
2) Has overseen continuous list "rebuilding" with minimal drop off in performance. Seems to introduce new players "when they are ready".
3) Has maintained and enhanced the Bloods culture and No Dickheads policy. Our leadership groups have led. Players consistently perform better than their draft position would suggest. 9 Rookie Listers last week. Richmond 2.
4) Has brought through new coaches. Has developed coaches very well. The coaching group looks well aligned and tight.
5) Has worked very effectively with Club Management (who deserve their credit too!) so that there appear no signs at all of dissension within the club hierarchy.
6) Has kept going the admiration that most genuine footy people have for the Swans management and culture. Never bignotes himself or criticizes individuals. Gracious in victory and defeat.
These (and others invisible to us) are the foundation stones on which the club's continuing success are built. Success comes from doing the right things consistently.
Horse leads that effort.
I am an unashamed fan.

 

[Kummerspeck]

The biggest issue with the 2nd and 3rd was we got smashed in contested ball, wasn’t it?

It made it difficult to go man-on-man since we weren’t getting our hands on the football, and our defence needed boosting as a result.

Our spare was around the stoppages a lot too, addressing the fact that we were getting beaten there.

 

[Kirkswan]

Our spare was around the stoppages a lot too, addressing the fact that we were getting beaten there.

I watched the replay and it seemed to me that the first half of the second quarter was an arm wrestle, with neither them nor us getting on top. Then they scored heir goals and we missed ours in the second half of the second quarter. The third began much the same way, bust we did start to get back on top late in the third. So really we had better of them for three quarters. They were simply not good enough for long enough to beat us on the day.

 

[J_Moore]

There Longmire goes again, shutting Aliir out of the senior team because he doesn’t like players with flair.

 

[BloodySwan]

There Longmire goes again, shutting Aliir out of the senior team because he doesn’t like players with flair.

The way people bang on about Aliir Aliir & Horse it's like people think he's Billy Elliot and Horse wont let him dance

 

[Jewelsbon]

The way people bang on about Aliir Aliir & Horse it's like people think he's Billy Elliot and Horse wont let him dance

There Longmire goes again, shutting Aliir out of the senior team because he doesn’t like players with flair.

Bastard......

 

[J_Moore]

The way people bang on about Aliir Aliir & Horse it's like people think he's Billy Elliot and Horse wont let him dance

What is this, John? The tiny town from Footloose?