Johnson and Lockyer

[BEEG]

Its getting pretty boring atm without any football and the StKilda bagging coming to an end so my question is

Will Ben Johnson and Tarkyn Lockyer have a place in the team next year both have lost alot of speed Lockyer more so and with all these young kids coming through will they be selected

I think this will be Johnson last season with collingwood i cant see him getting in the team without help from injuries

Lockyer i think will be his final season still have alot of love for Tarks but with his lack of foot speed i think he will struggle his only position i think will be a HFF still has great disposal

Both been great servents of the club but i think they will struggle to hold spots this year

 

[smiddaz123]

It spoke volumes when Shannon Byrnes put about 10 metres on Lockyer over the space of 20 metres in the Prelim. Lockyer really has lost a lot of pace. He's a handy player to have on the list though. Experienced, good skills, works hard. I can see someone like Macaffer taking his place though.

Ben Johnson is just a terrible footballer. Not the best trait to have when playing AFL sadly.

 

[mdc]

It spoke volumes when Shannon Byrnes put about 10 metres on Lockyer over the space of 20 metres in the Prelim. Lockyer really has lost a lot of pace. He's a handy player to have on the list though. Experienced, good skills, works hard. I can see someone like Macaffer taking his place though.

Ben Johnson is just a terrible footballer. Not the best trait to have when playing AFL sadly.

This sums it up well. I'm happy for Lockyer to play this year out, although I don't really want to see him anywhere near the defensive half; use his kicking to set up inside 50.

 

[BEEG]

It spoke volumes when Shannon Byrnes put about 10 metres on Lockyer over the space of 20 metres in the Prelim. Lockyer really has lost a lot of pace. He's a handy player to have on the list though. Experienced, good skills, works hard. I can see someone like Macaffer taking his place though.

Ben Johnson is just a terrible footballer. Not the best trait to have when playing AFL sadly.

Bit harsh on Jonno

Game has gone past him but he was one of out better players in that Prelim and yes i know it wouldnt have been hard

Good point on Macaffer i would love to see him get a year at Half Forward i have seen him down yarraville a few times very big boy

 

[UltratuneBlob]

I still see a spot for Tarks due to his versatility. Johnson is another matter. I thought at the beginning of the year BJ with his crab like lateral abilities might be able to swing a season like 06 again, but it was failry underwhelming I have to say. Greatest threat to Johnson.

 

[King Woodie]

I don't see Johnson being a starting 22 player this year, but will probably be one of the first few depth players selected for that position. I expect him to play 7-9 games, and get delisted at the end of the year as younger players take his place.

Lockyer will continue to be a member of the starting 22 this year - as you say, on the HFF / wing (not in the backline as he has lost the pace required back there). He will play all 25 games barring injury. The following year he will be relegated to the role Johnson has above.

 

[King Woodie]

It spoke volumes when Shannon Byrnes put about 10 metres on Lockyer over the space of 20 metres in the Prelim. Lockyer really has lost a lot of pace. He's a handy player to have on the list though. Experienced, good skills, works hard. I can see someone like Macaffer taking his place though.

Ben Johnson is just a terrible footballer. Not the best trait to have when playing AFL sadly.

Yep, this probably sums it up well, I think.

 

[Histrionics]

Before Johnno broke his leg last year he was in the form of his career. With another pre season under his belt he will be in the 22 come round one barring injuries I'm sure of it.

 

[Invigoration]

I'd be absolutely shattered if both of them line up for us come finals 2010.

And I'd be disappointed, though not overly surprised, if just Lockyer lined up. Hopefully he has been replaced by then, but I'm not holding my breath.

Describing Johnson as a terrible footballer is probably overrating him in my eyes

We've got a strong team if these two are on the sidelines though.

 

[the mighty T]

I'd be absolutely shattered if both of them line up for us come finals 2010.

And I'd be disappointed, though not overly surprised, if just Lockyer lined up. Hopefully he has been replaced by then, but I'm not holding my breath.

Describing Johnson as a terrible footballer is probably overrating him in my eyes

We've got a strong team if these two are on the sidelines though.

Completely agree

By 2010 finals Macaffer should have cemented his spot in the side, pushing Lockyer out

I personally see Barham as the replacement for Johnson...Very quick and much more hard at the ball than BJ would ever dream to be...its a shame he cant kick though*sigh*...play as a tagger perhaps?

 

[Heater39]

So much hate for 2 players that have served us well over the years. Johnno was twice runner-up in our b+f.

 

[ozpie]

Describing Johnson as a terrible footballer is probably overrating him in my eyes

yeah, terrible footballers play 10 years at the highest level.....

 

[ozpie]

So much hate for 2 players that have served us well over the years. Johnno was twice runner-up in our b+f.

well said heater39!!

 

[smiddaz123]

So much hate for 2 players that have served us well over the years. Johnno was twice runner-up in our b+f.

Thing is, we're heading into 2010. Completely different Johnson (one who is a poor kick, decision makers, and very poor defensively).

And there is zero hate for Lockyer here. Big different between hate for a player and just acknowledging his time is almost up.

I get the feeling whenever a bad word is said about Johnson a few people put their hands over their ears and start srceaming "He beat Ablett for a quarter in the NAB, he beat Ablett for a quarter in the NAB!"

 

[Heater39]

Thing is, we're heading into 2010. Completely different Johnson (one who is a poor kick, decision makers, and very poor defensively).

And there is zero hate for Lockyer here. Big different between hate for a player and just acknowledging his time is almost up.

I get the feeling whenever a bad word is said about Johnson a few people put their hands over their ears and start srceaming "He beat Ablett for a quarter in the NAB, he beat Ablett for a quarter in the NAB!"

Not sure where your coming from with your last paragraph but I don't think I've read a single positive post about Johnno. He's bagged consistently on this board.

Besides, his form towards the end of last year was ok, certainly worthy of keeping his spot in the 22.

I'm not saying he should be automatic 1st 22 next but some posters, like yourself, seem to have decided that they want Johnson out of the team, no ifs, buts or maybes, without even considering his form.

If it turns out his time is up then so be it (and I actually agree both are probably near the end) but, shit, give him some credit for what he's achieved. Almost 200 games, twice runner up in the b+f is certainly not 'terrible footballer' material.

 

[smiddaz123]

I'm not saying he should be automatic 1st 22 next but some posters, like yourself, seem to have decided that they want Johnson out of the team, no ifs, buts or maybes, without even considering his form.

I think you'll find that's exactly what we're considering. That, and nothing else.

You're considering awards he received years and years ago, which aren't relevant to current form.

 

[Heater39]

I think you'll find that's exactly what we're considering. That, and nothing else.

You're considering awards he received years and years ago, which aren't relevant to current form.

Not at all, as I said, his form towards the end of last year (meaning 2009, so really, this year) was worthy of him keeping his spot in the 22.

 

[magpiewarrior]

Boy oh boy you guys are something else. Mick said a while back " there are two kinds of coaches, those that have been sacked and those who will be sacked". You guys seem to believe that there are only two kinds of footballers, those that are rubbished and those that will be rubbished in the future. They have both given everything they could to the team and there contributions have been significant. They have both earned far more respect than is afforded them here. Sometimes I read what is written here about our players, coaches and club management, and I wonder if I am on the wrong clubs forum. Tarks has never shirked a collision, a chase or a no-glory 1%er in his career and his team ethic is one that some posters here could do with.

 

[HFF]

Lockyer had a fantastic season 2009.

He is definitely in our best 22 IMO. Can play a variety of roles, especially as another small forward where his delivery and conversion is top notch. Also tough at the contest.

Johnson was almost gone IMO. However, he revived his career after coming back late in the season and playing some good footy. Was great vs Adelaide in that 3rd qtr of the semi final. I am a big critic of his, however he still has a role to play. His kicking may not be great overall but he rarely misses shots on goal, which will be extremely handy for us.

 

[smiddaz123]

Not at all, as I said, his form towards the end of last year (meaning 2009, so really, this year) was worthy of him keeping his spot in the 22.

And the two best and fairest runners up happened when?

He kicked a couple of important goals, particularly against Adelaide, but defensively he probably more than canceled them out.

 

[datwhitey]

"terrible footballer" is possibly a tad harsh, but Jonno has NEVER been good enough to be considered a "good" AFL player, let alone great. He has always had flaws in his game that have limited his effectiveness, or impact, and we are now in a position where we need to replace him with someone that can do the job more effectively. Of course it remains to be seen whether anyone steps up, but potentially there are a few that may do so, and for this reason Jonno SHOULD only be considered a squad player IMO (but I am not sure that MM thinks the same way). You can win a flag with ONLY Jonno at this level, or Tooves (as he is now; he's young enough that he may improve considerably), or perhaps Tarx, but not with 4 or 5 players that aren't (on their own) "premiership quality." Personally I think Jonno is the first one that should be replaced by an up-and-comer with more natural ability (and therefore more potential hurt factor).

Apologies for the overuse of brackets!

 

[Heater39]

And the two best and fairest runners up happened when?

He kicked a couple of important goals, particularly against Adelaide, but defensively he probably more than canceled them out.

I brought up the b+f results to show that he's been a more than serviceable player over his career but I don't take them into calculation when considering best 22 for next year.

Good post by magpiewarrior btw

 

[mdc]

Tarks has never shirked a collision, a chase or a no-glory 1%er in his career and his team ethic is one that some posters here could do with.

I've re-read the thread twice now. Please direct me to a post that rubbished Lockyer. I think you'll find he's universally respected on these boards, but that doesn't mean that we can't speculate on his playing future. That's why they're discussion boards, and not cheerleading boards.

We need to remember we aren't part of the team. We just watch it.

 

[smiddaz123]

I brought up the b+f results to show that he's been a more than serviceable player over his career but I don't take them into calculation when considering best 22 for next year.

Good post by magpiewarrior btw

What role do you think he will be/should be playing for us in 2010, if in our best 22.

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

My thoughts on both:

Johnson: With the recruitment of Ball and the continued development of Sidebottom and Beams, I think Johnson slides out of the best 22. However at the moment he is probably the closet player to a tagger Collingwood have, still has good pace so it wouldn't suprise me if he still remains a regular. He may get overtaken by Barham (if his disposal improves) or Wellingham (if his defensive pressure improves) or Sidebottom (if MM gives him the role as no. 1 tagger).

Lockyer: Is pretty much a permanent small forward now. Hasn't played defense in years and a part from a few stints on the wing, didn't play midfield a lot last season. In 2009 he was still an effective player, very consistent. Unless the younger players like Dale Thomas, John McCarthy can raise their game and be as consistent as Lockyer, in both disposal usage and goals scored, Lockyer should remain in the best 22.

Conclusion: Onus is on younger players like McCarthy, Barham, Wellingham is to prove they are worthy of Lockyer's and Johnson's spot. John Anthony had a great NAB cup and became a regular in 2009. If McCarthy, Barham etc don't impress initially or perform better than Lockyer and Johnson then they shouldn't get the veterans spots just because they potentially may have only one year left with the club.