Recommitted Jordan de Goey [re-signed]

[Prochard123]

Personally I hope no club chases him and we keep him on fair and not ridiculous money.
Simple fact is people can have their opinion as to how good a player he is but if we weren't forced to play Jordan as a full forward he could be anything.
A midfield bull who can push forward when needed, instead of being wasted at full forward and playing midfield minutes when we need that extra grunt.

DeGoey has talent and upside like few others, unfortunately our circumstances prevents us playing him the way we should.

Yeap this is the ideal outcome, the chance of a KPF draftee being becoming better than De Goey is just so low, even in the top 10.

Keeping De Goey at sub 750k > Trading De Goey when he demands 850k+ > Keeping De Goey at 850k+

 

[Falchoon]

So at best, you have between a 11% - 22% chance of getting a player better than De Goey. And you still wouldn't give up pick 2 for De Goey?

The draft is a lottery, how many times has a top 10 KPF pick been hyped as the next big thing but falls miserably short of expectations?

you have to compare apples with apples though and percentage of salary cap plays a part in the decision making process. Pick 2 @ $850k is different to pick 2 @ $150k

For a 20% chance - the pay off is potentially 10 -15 years of high quality football (Riewoldt, Franklin, Roughead, throw in Hawkins, Lynch, Cameron etc)

De Goey is a proven injury risk

He would have been All Australian in 2018 if it wasn't for injuries and he started this year in All Australian form before his finger injury.

Dare I mention dickhead factor - clubs are really prioritising the mental health aspect of creating a team and culture.

There's more to ponder than De Goey vs a 20% chance.

Take a midfielder with pick 2 and look for the KPP later on in the draft.

 

[Prochard123]

Falchoon

"you have to compare apples with apples though and percentage of salary cap plays a part in the decision making process. Pick 2 @ $850k is different to pick 2 @ $150k"

Not sure where you are getting this from, but maybe you mean De Goey @ $850k is different to Pick 2 @ $150k, which it is, I agree. But if pick 2 spends the first 2 years on the bench in development, then in a way $150k contributing 0 could be even more expensive than paying $850k to get De Goey's output.


"For a 20% chance - the pay off is potentially 10 -15 years of high quality football (Riewoldt, Franklin, Roughead, throw in Hawkins, Lynch, Cameron etc)"


Well, like I mentioned before, it's not a 20% chance. And even then, most of these guys spend years in development, the actual payoff is very, very, very rarely 10-15 years.

The game has also changed and become more demanding, why do you think KPF systematically are becoming less durable and kicking less goals? It's because they need to cover more grounds, crash more packs, tackle to apply pressure, etc etc.

You're also cherry picking some of the greatest key forwards over the last 20 years. Maybe you can tell me what % of key forwards taken in the top 10 and drafted after 2009/2010 have provided 10-15 years of high quality football? Being able to pick out 5-6 over 10-15 years of national drafts doesn't prove any point.

"De Goey is a proven injury risk"

Yes, but so are (taking out this year because we don't have 22 games)

Tom Lynch
2017 - 19
2018 - 10
2019 - 22

Jeremy Cmaeron
2017 - 18
2018 - 16
2019 - 20

Jordan De Goey
2017 - 14
2018 - 17
2019 - 16

And in De Goey's case, at least his injuries are not recurring, if we Lynch can get over his knee/back issues, then so can De Goey become more durable.

 

[00Stinger]

Also it makes no sense for North to all in on a draft, and purely recruit from via draft picks. GC and GWS have both shown that depending on this approach leads to nothing but failure. And while GC's recent draft was very strong (Lukosius, King, Rowell, Anderson), they are only able to flourish on the back of mature players selected from dozens of failed 1st round picks.

Also, the strike rate of KPFs in the top 10 is pretty horrendous:

2011
Pick 1 - Jonathan Patton (Fail)

2012
Pick 10 - Joe Daniher (Pass)

2013
Pick 1 - Tom Boyd (Fail)

2014
Pick 1 - Tom Mccartin (Fail)
Pick 8 - Peter Wright (Fail)

2015
Pick 2- Josh Schache (Fail)
Pick 9 - Sam Weideman (Pass, barely)
Pick 10 - Harry Mckay (Success)

2016
N/A

2017
Pick 9 - Aaron Naughton (Currently Pass, hasn't kicked more than 32 goals in a season, but I'm quite confident that he will eventually become a success)

Others are just too early to call, King brothers look excellent, but neither kicked more than 25 goals yet, and only 1 20+ goal season each. They both look likely tho, but atm too early.

So from 2011 - 2017, out of a total of 9 KPFs taken in the top 10, we have a 11% Success Rate, 33% Pass Rate, and 56% Fail Rate.

ONLY 1 KEY FORWARD (DANIHER) TAKEN IN THE TOP 10 BETWEEN 2011 - 2019 HAS KICKED MORE THAN 40 GOALS IN ANY SEASON, LET ALONE MATCH DE GOEY'S 48 IN 2018.

Additionally, you'd probably take De Goey over everyone on that list except Mckay/Naughton as well.

So at best, you have between a 11% - 22% chance of getting a player better than De Goey. And you still wouldn't give up pick 2 for De Goey?

The draft is a lottery, how many times has a top 10 KPF pick been hyped as the next big thing but falls miserably short of expectations?

Hogan was taken in the 17 year old draft and has kicked 40+ twice

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

 

[Prochard123]

Hogan was taken in the 17 year old draft and has kicked 40+ twice

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

And he wasn’t a top 10 pick, which was the above criteria?

this obviously refers to KPF that are actually available to be drafted, and not players who were taken off the market from the very start. How are cases like Hogan even relevant to North’s situation when he isn’t even accessible?

 

[Footy Smarts]

It's a really bad sign when a guy holds out on contracts like this. Shows he's trying to hold the club to ransom when it'll hurt the club long term to give up that money. Collingwood must hope this goes down the dusty route where he shopped himself around, realised there were more things to life than every last cent of pay, cleaned himself up a bit off field and turned into a star. If he gets a big offer elsewhere I'd let him walk.

 

[Bungeye]

After 5 games he had kicked 2 goals and was averaging 15 possessions a game

fu** me if that is AA form then the AA team must have 200 players in it

You can't talk, when you know your own "questionable character" has not Managed to "string" together any games worth "packaging".

 

[Bungeye]

you have to compare apples with apples though and percentage of salary cap plays a part in the decision making process. Pick 2 @ $850k is different to pick 2 @ $150k

For a 20% chance - the pay off is potentially 10 -15 years of high quality football (Riewoldt, Franklin, Roughead, throw in Hawkins, Lynch, Cameron etc)

De Goey is a proven injury risk



Dare I mention dickhead factor - clubs are really prioritising the mental health aspect of creating a team and culture.

There's more to ponder than De Goey vs a 20% chance.

Take a midfielder with pick 2 and look for the KPP later on in the draft.

Collingwood have been "managing" dickheads for years, and we still manage to make finals ad nauseum.

Gws somehow managed to put up with "ex dickhead" Heath Shaw's antics alright!

 

[Bungeye]

Josh Bruce kicked 6 goals in a game this year.

Comparing Josh Bruce to De Goey is like comparing Dangerfield's "kick" to Nathan Buckleys kick! Does not even compare.

 

[Bungeye]

7 goals in 6 games is still not AA form.

2020 "All australian" Marcus Bontempelli kicking 11 goals on a half forward flank isn't either!

 

[The 747]

Comparing Josh Bruce to De Goey is like comparing Dangerfield's "kick" to Nathan Buckleys kick! Does not even compare.

I see it is somewhat hard to get through to you. Care to comment on the AA form post or are you going to run away from that and just keep attacking the clubs posters support?

 

[The 747]

2020 All australian Marcus Bontempelli kicking 11 goals on a half forward flank isn't either!

Babble, babble, Da Goey gud, every1 else bad.

 

[Bungeye]

Babble, babble, Da Goey gud, every1 else bad.

I think you meant

De Goey >>>>>>> everyone else

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

It's a really bad sign when a guy holds out on contracts like this. Shows he's trying to hold the club to ransom when it'll hurt the club long term to give up that money. Collingwood must hope this goes down the dusty route where he shopped himself around, realised there were more things to life than every last cent of pay, cleaned himself up a bit off field and turned into a star. If he gets a big offer elsewhere I'd let him walk.

That comment could be about anybody in the AFL. Jeremy Cameron for example.

 

[Robroy22]

It's a really bad sign when a guy holds out on contracts like this. Shows he's trying to hold the club to ransom when it'll hurt the club long term to give up that money. Collingwood must hope this goes down the dusty route where he shopped himself around, realised there were more things to life than every last cent of pay, cleaned himself up a bit off field and turned into a star. If he gets a big offer elsewhere I'd let him walk.

Might I suggest you try a soft plastic?

 

[Footy Smarts]

That comment could be about anybody in the AFL. Jeremy Cameron for example.

Absolutely could say that about Jeremy Cameron. He might be wanting to leave though and there are restrictions on when he's allowed to announce that. But you've never seen guys like Pendlebury, Selwood, Cotchin or dozens of other high profile players let their contract become an issue.

As far as we can tell De Goey who finished 8th in your B&F in his best year and has an indecent assault charge during over his head thinks he should be paid among the highest wages in the comp. He's a talented player who lacks consistency and durability. Forget about the likes of Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Grundy, Treloar or Adams who clearly deserve higher pay than De Goey right now. Sit him down and ask him why he thinks he deserves to be paid more than Maynard who's more durable, more consistent, also been in the AA squad once, finished higher in B&Fs and doesn't have the same off field issues. Then present him a contract that he's worth now (450-500k at most) and add in significant incentives if he finishes top 5 in the B&F or makes the AA squad or team.

If he doesn't want to sign it tell him to try his luck elsewhere because he's a distraction for all the wrong reasons right now.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Absolutely could say that about Jeremy Cameron. He might be wanting to leave though and there are restrictions on when he's allowed to announce that. But you've never seen guys like Pendlebury, Selwood, Cotchin or dozens of other high profile players let their contract become an issue.

As far as we can tell De Goey who finished 8th in your B&F in his best year and has an indecent assault charge during over his head thinks he should be paid among the highest wages in the comp. He's a talented player who lacks consistency and durability. Forget about the likes of Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Grundy, Treloar or Adams who clearly deserve higher pay than De Goey right now. Sit him down and ask him why he thinks he deserves to be paid more than Maynard who's more durable, more consistent, also been in the AA squad once, finished higher in B&Fs and doesn't have the same off field issues. Then present him a contract that he's worth now (450-500k at most) and add in significant incentives if he finishes top 5 in the B&F or makes the AA squad or team.

If he doesn't want to sign it tell him to try his luck elsewhere because he's a distraction for all the wrong reasons right now.

Who says its an issue? He's tyre kicking like many players have done in the past and many more will do in the future. Jonathon Brown used to do it every year. Dustin Martin did it a few years ago.

I'm pretty sure hes already got the message that he can go if he finds a big enough offer. And I'm also pretty sure that Carlton and Essendon have already said "no thanks".

As for distraction.... distraction from what? Its the offseason for Collingwood ffs.

 

[Footy Smarts]

Who says its an issue? He's tyre kicking like many players have done in the past and many more will do in the future. Jonathon Brown used to do it every year. Dustin Martin did it a few years ago.

I'm pretty sure hes already got the message that he can go if he finds a big enough offer. And I'm also pretty sure that Carlton and Essendon have already said "no thanks".

As for distraction.... distraction from what? Its the offseason for Collingwood ffs.

The distraction is that every time a player demands over the top money the next guy does the same and the next guy, etc. Then you're left in Collingwood's position of having a tight salary cap where they might lose a player.

Since Richmond got off that merry go round they've had players willingly sign for less than they could've got elsewhere and been able to bring in some outside quality like Prestia, Lynch and Caddy while losing nobody they really wanted to keep. Geelong finished top 4 and are seemingly able to make competitive offers to Cameron, Crouch and Higgins. Those guys would be great for Collingwood and potentially take them all the way but apparently they don't have the cap space. How many high quality Richmond or Geelong players have been "kicking the tyres" so openly in the last 5 years? There's a reason Richmond can keep together their much better list and Geelong can expand their comparable list while Collingwood are stuck in this position.

 

[00Stinger]

You can't talk, when you know your own "questionable character" has not Managed to "string" together any games worth "packaging".

lol are you illiterate?


Might want to read my username correctly and look at the team I follow champ

 

[Duskfire]

The distraction is that every time a player demands over the top money the next guy does the same and the next guy, etc. Then you're left in Collingwood's position of having a tight salary cap where they might lose a player.

Since Richmond got off that merry go round they've had players willingly sign for less than they could've got elsewhere and been able to bring in some outside quality like Prestia, Lynch and Caddy while losing nobody they really wanted to keep. Geelong finished top 4 and are seemingly able to make competitive offers to Cameron, Crouch and Higgins. Those guys would be great for Collingwood and potentially take them all the way but apparently they don't have the cap space. How many high quality Richmond or Geelong players have been "kicking the tyres" so openly in the last 5 years? There's a reason Richmond can keep together their much better list and Geelong can expand their comparable list while Collingwood are stuck in this position.

Hawthorn are pretty good as well. They don't have many players leave for money. There are obvious exceptions like Buddy of course, but in general they are pretty good at recruiting players and keeping them happy financially. It is interesting how some clubs are better at handling it than others.

 

[eth-dog]

lol are you illiterate?


Might want to read my username correctly and look at the team I follow champ

And like the 30 melbourne badges there.

 

[Bungeye]

lol are you illiterate?


Might want to read my username correctly and look at the team I follow champ

My apologies, that was meant for eth-dog!

 

[JayJ20]

JDG is more Stringer than Dustin Martin. In fact, Stringer had a better career than JDG at the same age with off-field issues.

I don't know how his value is above 700K per year, nor do I believe he is worth two firsts.

 

[Bungeye]

FACTS... His is just a poor man's Jake Stringer...

Can't believe how much he is asking the Pies for, hope they stand firm

This year he will be a rich man's Jake Stringer though...

 

[schmuttt]

Essendon would be incredibly stupid to chase him.