Injury Josh Hunt - glandular fever

[cynical]

Grabbing a bunch of older guys doesn't mean we don't play the kids, HMac is a no1 ruck which we only have one of and we got Rivers for free to replace Scarlett.

You can't expect an older guy to be replaced by a kid in the VFL who is better, it doesn't work like that.
It is better to replace an old guy with a kid who is 80% as good but adds better attributes like speed and agility and has upside.

Playing the "best" team each week is stupid. You have to balance the team with youth and experience and transition younger guys into the team. If we can get a few 80% kids into the team each week then we will be much stronger by finals. When finals come around then you play your best team and if we aren't top 4 by playing a few kids each week we aren't going to be good enough to win the flag anyway.

J Hunt might be done by round 20, then what? you replace him then with a fresh face? You replace the old guy round 1 if the young guy shows he isn't up to it then you bring back the old guy.

I see the same for Corey and Stokes.

Our depth is too great to have guys like Guthrie, Caddy, GHS, Smedts, Murdoch and co sitting on the sidelines waiting for their turn.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Grabbing a bunch of older guys doesn't mean we don't play the kids, HMac is a no1 ruck which we only have one of and we got Rivers for free to replace Scarlett.

You can't expect an older guy to be replaced by a kid in the VFL who is better, it doesn't work like that.
It is better to replace an old guy with a kid who is 80% as good but adds better attributes like speed and agility and has upside.

Playing the "best" team each week is stupid. You have to balance the team with youth and experience and transition younger guys into the team. If we can get a few 80% kids into the team each week then we will be much stronger by finals. When finals come around then you play your best team and if we aren't top 4 by playing a few kids each week we aren't going to be good enough to win the flag anyway.

J Hunt might be done by round 20, then what? you replace him then with a fresh face? You replace the old guy round 1 if the young guy shows he isn't up to it then you bring back the old guy.

I see the same for Corey and Stokes.

Our depth is too great to have guys like Guthrie, Caddy, GHS, Smedts, Murdoch and co sitting on the sidelines waiting for their turn.

Replacing players with ones who are only 80% as good as them ipso facto makes your team weaker, not stronger - unless they are going to at least make up the 20% shortfall by the end of the season.
Which is why I said younger players should replace older players only when if and the MC believes the younger player is (a) better than the older player, or (b) will be better than the older player by the end of the season.
I do not follow your comment that "if we aren't top 4 by playing a few kids each week [ie playing under full strength by using some only 80% as good as those they replace] we aren't going to be good enough to win the flag anyway". It seems to imply that if we make top 4 by playing under strength during the season we can win the Premiership, but not if we make top 4 by playing at full strength. Is that what you mean? Because to me that simply sounds nonsensical.

 

[you pick one]

I see the same for Corey and Stokes.

I don't know how Stokes always gets into this sort of thread,27 years of age and 130 odd games should be right in his prime,sure down a bit on 2011 out put but wasn't the Lone Ranger there.
Lets see how he bounces back, he will be under pressure from below along with a few others, thats what makes strong football teams.He won't surrender his spot with out a fight.
Deserves better than he gets on this board from a few.

 

[cynical]

Replacing players with ones who are only 80% as good as them ipso facto makes your team weaker, not stronger - unless they are going to at least make up the 20% shortfall by the end of the season.
Which is why I said younger players should replace older players only when if and the MC believes the younger player is (a) better than the older player, or (b) will be better than the older player by the end of the season.
I do not follow your comment that "if we aren't top 4 by playing a few kids each week [ie playing under full strength by using some only 80% as good as those they replace] we aren't going to be good enough to win the flag anyway". It seems to imply that if we make top 4 by playing under strength during the season we can win the Premiership, but not if we make top 4 by playing at full strength. Is that what you mean? Because to me that simply sounds nonsensical.

It means that out of the 22 players that get picked, 2-3 might be between 80 and 100% as good as the player they are replacing. It's not playing under strength because the difference is minimal.

Playing under strength is replacing J Hunt with a first year player like Thurlow.

 

[cynical]

I don't know how Stokes always gets into this sort of thread,27 years of age and 130 odd games should be right in his prime,sure down a bit on 2011 out put but wasn't the Lone Ranger there.
Lets see how he bounces back, he will be under pressure from below along with a few others, thats what makes strong football teams.He won't surrender his spot with out a fight.
Deserves better than he gets on this board from a few.

It's because Stokes is a fringe player, when you aren't elite or fullfill an important role in the team you don't get the luxury of playing every week especially in a team with a huge amount of depth.

We probably have 35 guys who will be looking to play in the Seniors this year, which of the current team (that finished 7th) are going to make way for the VFL guys looking to play? only Scarlett retired.

Also have to remember that young players who don't get games when they should are open to be poached by clubs like Sydney.

 

[you pick one]

It's because Stokes is a fringe player, when you aren't elite or fullfill an important role in the team you don't get the luxury of playing every week especially in a team with a huge amount of depth.

We probably have 35 guys who will be looking to play in the Seniors this year, which of the current team (that finished 7th) are going to make way for the VFL guys looking to play? only Scarlett retired.

Also have to remember that young players who don't get games when they should are open to be poached by clubs like Sydney.

This is not something new this season it's been going on since 09
Missed 5 games in the last 2 years,which included a premiership year,and I doubt he was dropped for any of those 5 games, doesn't sound to fringe to me.
Do you think we should sack the Match Committee? No of cause not,If the young blokes are good enough they will play simple as that.

 

[Turbocat]

I don't know how Stokes always gets into this sort of thread,27 years of age and 130 odd games should be right in his prime,sure down a bit on 2011 out put but wasn't the Lone Ranger there.
Lets see how he bounces back, he will be under pressure from below along with a few others, thats what makes strong football teams.He won't surrender his spot with out a fight.
Deserves better than he gets on this board from a few.

Your right , he should be a prime , key player. However , few players play his role with his output and stay a key player. To be a permanent small forward for a full career like Milne is rare. IMO , He should have been the one who was ready to become the next on ball mainstay , to help out the likes of Bartel and Kelly when Corey and Ling departed. That he has failed to transfer into that role makes him a peripheral player and one who will probably be replaced when youth needs a position.
He was a better player pre 2011 , when the game changed to more long bombs it suited him less.

 

[DanA]

Your right , he should be a prime , key player. However , few players play his role with his output and stay a key player. To be a permanent small forward for a full career like Milne is rare. IMO , He should have been the one who was ready to become the next on ball mainstay , to help out the likes of Bartel and Kelly when Corey and Ling departed. That he has failed to transfer into that role makes him a peripheral player and one who will probably be replaced when youth needs a position.
He was a better player pre 2011 , when the game changed to more long bombs it suited him less.

The thing about Stokes is he always seems to step up when it looks like he's about to be ousted. I think he works harder we his position is in jeopardy and that's never been more the case than in 2013

 

[LifeSpan-Void]

It's because Stokes is a fringe player, when you aren't elite or fullfill an important role in the team you don't get the luxury of playing every week especially in a team with a huge amount of depth.

We probably have 35 guys who will be looking to play in the Seniors this year, which of the current team (that finished 7th) are going to make way for the VFL guys looking to play? only Scarlett retired.

Also have to remember that young players who don't get games when they should are open to be poached by clubs like Sydney.

Yeah Stokes is only a fringe player to us on the outside. As far as the MC is concerned, he has tenure over any other forward pocket types on the list, and his consistency at the weekly selections tends to confirm that - galvanised by him not getting his arse kicked to the kerb after the (as trumped up as they were) drug charges.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Forget all these suggestions of Thurlow et al (or Smedts as a defender, that didn't work and he looked much better forward), the only bloke who is taking Josh's spot is Guthrie. If you look at it there's five defenders who are automatic selections-Taylor Lonergan Enright Mackie and Rivers, so if Guthrie impresses in the NAB Cup as I expect him to, Josh may find he's unable to get his spot back.

That said, do feel sorry foor Josh, never like to see any of our guys injured, and I thought he had a good year last year so he'l do everything he can to force his way back in when he's 100 % again, but it definitely opens the door wide for Guthrie.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I think it's out of Guthrie, T-Hunt and Murdoch as to who will play in Hunts place. Wonder if they'll get Rioli?

That might be the option purely for the round 1 game, I do remember when Josh got injured in the second Hawthorn game last year, they put Poodle in the back six for the rest of the game (with Motlop coming on as the sub). This would allow an extra midfielder which might be useful given Hawthorn's quality in there. However I think that's only a temporary think for a week or two-if Josh misses a long period they are definitely going to pick a proper defender to replace him, and after 18 games and looking quite impressive last year, Guthrie is clearly the frontrunner for that.

 

[Partridge]

Yeah Stokes is only a fringe player to us on the outside. As far as the MC is concerned, he has tenure over any other forward pocket types on the list, and his consistency at the weekly selections tends to confirm that - galvanised by him not getting his arse kicked to the kerb after the (as trumped up as they were) drug charges.

So explain why he only kicked 15 goals for the whole of 2012?

Here's a list of small to medium forwards we have - Chapman, Johnson, Menzel, Varcoe, Motlop, Smedts, Stokes. Aside from Smedts (who added excellent defensive pressure when moved to the forward line during 2012), who does Stokes get automatically selected ahead of in that group?

 

[Partridge]

I think it's out of Guthrie, T-Hunt and Murdoch as to who will play in Hunts place. Wonder if they'll get Rioli?

Taylor Hunt is already firmly entrenched in the team. It's can't be said enough times - he is our ONLY tagger.

Put Murdoch on Rioli and he'll kick 8 goals. He hasn't a clue how to defend, why the desperation to play him where he isn't suited and he was found sorely wanting is beyond me. Pace is the new magical ingredient defenders need it seems. Hawthorn will lick their lips with him in the backline, they'll be a lot more worried about him getting the ball on the wing and sprinting towards goal. Where, he's already shown he can kick a goal.

Guthrie is the only sane choice. For one thing he played 18 games last year. Ergo, the match committee really like him and really rate him. So do plenty of us. For another thing, he's a defender! Who defends. Like, minds an opponent. Useful thing to be down there.

 

[LifeSpan-Void]

So explain why he only kicked 15 goals for the whole of 2012?

Here's a list of small to medium forwards we have - Chapman, Johnson, Menzel, Varcoe, Motlop, Smedts, Stokes. Aside from Smedts (who added excellent defensive pressure when moved to the forward line during 2012), who does Stokes get automatically selected ahead of in that group?

Why are you asking me this? I'm not on the match committee. I didn't say anything about him deserving to be selected, just that based on his games played in the last few years that he seems to be preferred.

 

[Partridge]

Why are you asking me this? I'm not on the match committee. I didn't say anything about him deserving to be selected, just that based on his games played in the last few years that he seems to be preferred.

That's my point. He gets picked year in year out and the fact he gets picked is used to defend it. There's no way on last year's output he deserves any kind of automatic selection. But he'll get picked again, no doubt at all.

 

[you pick one]

So explain why he only kicked 15 goals for the whole of 2012?

Here's a list of small to medium forwards we have - Chapman, Johnson, Menzel, Varcoe, Motlop, Smedts, Stokes. Aside from Smedts (who added excellent defensive pressure when moved to the forward line during 2012), who does Stokes get automatically selected ahead of in that group?

That's a bit cheeky isn't Partridge,Johnson played through the midfield,Menzel and Varcoe hardly pulled on a boot between them last year so that's 3 of the list gone,Motlop and Chapman played most games.
So got selected ahead of Smedts and two injured players.
Lets see if some one can stay fit and put more pressure on him this year but don't blame the incumbent for others misfortune or lack of experience in Smedts case.
There are spots in the team this year, those who work hard will get them.

 

[LifeSpan-Void]

Smedts had also broken his finger pretty severely at the end of the season so couldn't get a look-in anyway.

 

[you pick one]

Smedts had also broken his finger pretty severely at the end of the season so couldn't get a look-in anyway.

Thanks,had forgotten.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Grabbing a bunch of older guys doesn't mean we don't play the kids, HMac is a no1 ruck which we only have one of and we got Rivers for free to replace Scarlett.

You can't expect an older guy to be replaced by a kid in the VFL who is better, it doesn't work like that.
It is better to replace an old guy with a kid who is 80% as good but adds better attributes like speed and agility and has upside.

Playing the "best" team each week is stupid. You have to balance the team with youth and experience and transition younger guys into the team. If we can get a few 80% kids into the team each week then we will be much stronger by finals. When finals come around then you play your best team and if we aren't top 4 by playing a few kids each week we aren't going to be good enough to win the flag anyway.

J Hunt might be done by round 20, then what? you replace him then with a fresh face? You replace the old guy round 1 if the young guy shows he isn't up to it then you bring back the old guy.

I see the same for Corey and Stokes.

Our depth is too great to have guys like Guthrie, Caddy, GHS, Smedts, Murdoch and co sitting on the sidelines waiting for their turn.

I absolutely agree with all of that, particularly the promotion of younger players. However I don't think you're going to see that permanent change round 1, after all Scott waited until pretty late in 2011 before he made the call on Milburn and Mooney. Someone like Josh, who is in the best 22 now, will at least be given a few games when he is fit again, to stake his claim to be there, and then come closer to finals CS will make the call on whether Guthrie takes Josh's spot for good or not. I very much doubt that you'll see such a call made at the start of the year. What the injury does do is give Guthrie a very good chance to stake his claim.

 

[Partridge]

That's a bit cheeky isn't Partridge,Johnson played through the midfield,Menzel and Varcoe hardly pulled on a boot between them last year so that's 3 of the list gone,Motlop and Chapman played most games.
So got selected ahead of Smedts and two injured players.
Lets see if some one can stay fit and put more pressure on him this year but don't blame the incumbent for others misfortune or lack of experience in Smedts case.
There are spots in the team this year, those who work hard will get them.

Not quite, the point is all those guys are in contention this year. I personally would not play Johnson up forward, our midfield is now a weakness and I think his best value is there now. And the question was who takes Stokes' spot. I provided all the relevant names.

You're right, you can't blame the incumbent on others being injured; but you can blame him for not performing anywhere near expectations. And 15 goals for a season as a small forward is precisely that.

 

[you pick one]

Not quite, the point is all those guys are in contention this year. I personally would not play Johnson up forward, our midfield is now a weakness and I think his best value is there now. And the question was who takes Stokes' spot. I provided all the relevant names.

You're right, you can't blame the incumbent on others being injured; but you can blame him for not performing anywhere near expectations. And 15 goals for a season as a small forward is precisely that.

You would get to more games live than I Partridge and see the ground covered better by the different players,so question, is Stokes still only a small forward, I thought his role changed significantly with the defection of young Ablett.
Even so I can't argue he had a great season last year he was well down on 2011 and if fit some of those you mentioned earlier should rightfully be eying of his spot in the side this year.
I wish we had the same pressure for spots down back and in the midfield,although those we have first choice are capable there is scant back up in areas.
The forward line is of least concern right now IMO.

 

[Partridge]

You would get to more games live than I Partridge and see the ground covered better by the different players,so question, is Stokes still only a small forward, I thought his role changed significantly with the defection of young Ablett.
Even so I can't argue he had a great season last year he was well down on 2011 and if fit some of those you mentioned earlier should rightfully be eying of his spot in the side this year.
I wish we had the same pressure for spots down back and in the midfield,although those we have first choice are capable there is scant back up in areas.
The forward line is of least concern right now IMO.

Unfortunately yes, he's definitely a small forward. His first two proper seasons for us (2007 and 2008) yielded his best returns - 32 and 38 goals respectively. He definitely went through the middle in part of 2008. But he certainly hasn't spent any more time in the middle with Ablett leaving, and with Duncan and Christensen stepping up you can see why. They're both better midfielders (and players). Going to be a very interesting NAB Cup and season.

 

[you pick one]

Unfortunately yes, he's definitely a small forward. His first two proper seasons for us (2007 and 2008) yielded his best returns - 32 and 38 goals respectively. He definitely went through the middle in part of 2008. But he certainly hasn't spent any more time in the middle with Ablest leaving, and with Duncan and Christensen stepping up you can see why. They're both better mid fielders (and players). Going to be a very interesting NAB Cup and season.

Unfortunately yes, he's definitely a small forward. His first two proper seasons for us (2007 and 2008) yielded his best returns - 32 and 38 goals respectively. He definitely went through the middle in part of 2008. But he certainly hasn't spent any more time in the middle with Ablest leaving, and with Duncan and Christensen stepping up you can see why. They're both better mid fielders (and players). Going to be a very interesting NAB Cup and season.

There is no way he could rack up his 2011 stats playing exclusively as a small forward,they would be extraordinary.
Maybe with Duncan and Christensen coming through he may revert back to being solely a small forward and increase the score board numbers.
You and I have just about done this to death,so to wrap me up yes he is under threat and will need something near his best to survive and yes it's going to be a very interesting NAB cup.
Can't wait.Varcoe Vardy Menzel H.Mac Caddy and Rivers hold the key I reckon, their the unknown for me.

 

[FredLeDeux]

The latest on the website

http://www.geelongcats.com.au/news/2013-02-05/back-in-the-hunt

Don't know what it all means, but he may be looking at the NAB Cup.
Or he may not.

 

[meto]

I don't know how Stokes always gets into this sort of thread,27 years of age and 130 odd games should be right in his prime,sure down a bit on 2011 out put but wasn't the Lone Ranger there.
Lets see how he bounces back, he will be under pressure from below along with a few others, thats what makes strong football teams.He won't surrender his spot with out a fight.
Deserves better than he gets on this board from a few.

Hear! hear! Only wish Varcoe was half as tough as the little bugger!