Justin Sherman

[Goldfish]

I apologise for my naivety and if this is stupid but I'm confused about this whole 'Brisbane have less bargaining power because of his large contract'... everyone else seems so sure.

If Sherman has asked to be traded but Brisbane originally were prepared to keep him and pay him what his contract stipulated...why would the Lions be obligated to find him a deal paying the same or similar amount? He has decided he can no longer play for the club, he is breaking the contract! Why would the Lion's be obligated to find somewhere for him to get a similar deal? Isn't this he and his managers job?

Unless because his contract is backended, there is a stipulation in that contract that if for whatever reason he wants to leave, then the Lion's have to find a club willing to pay him an amount that makes up for the backended nature of his contract. This does seem pretty far-fetched and would be crazy and quite irresponsible from a Lion's point of view (unless this is something that the AFLPA require in their contracts).

Snuka's confused. Maybe some can clear this up for me.

If a club wants to get rid of a player for whatever reason, another club can pay less for a contracted player, and then the original club needs to pay the balance of his contract.

I.e. say WCE draft Sherman on $300k pa, and he has a contract with the Lions for $400k pa for the next 2 years, the Lions have to pay $100k pa to Sherman even if he is not playing with the Lions for those 2 years.

Similar to Carlton and Fevola, from memory it was rumoured the blues had to subsidise his salary this year even though he was playing for the Lions.

(this is based on the Lions wanting to get rid of Sherman to free up salary cap room, if Sherman asks to leave, Brisbane do not have to trade him if he is contracted, as per WCE and Seaby the year before last)

 

[Snuka]

If a club wants to get rid of a player for whatever reason, another club can pay less for a contracted player, and then the original club needs to pay the balance of his contract.

I.e. say WCE draft Sherman on $300k pa, and he has a contract with the Lions for $400k pa for the next 2 years, the Lions have to pay $100k pa to Sherman even if he is not playing with the Lions for those 2 years.

Similar to Carlton and Fevola, from memory it was rumoured the blues had to subsidise his salary this year even though he was playing for the Lions.

(this is based on the Lions wanting to get rid of Sherman to free up salary cap room, if Sherman asks to leave, Brisbane do not have to trade him if he is contracted, as per WCE and Seaby the year before last)

No problems understanding that Goldfish and I know that clubs can use salary as part of trade negotiations but my query was that if a player himself has initiated the move (as Sherman is rumoured to be doing for whatever reason). I.e. Sherman has asked to be traded therefore wanting to break his contract, so why are the Lions obligated to find him an equal deal? It may be in there best interests so they can get the best out of it, but surely the Lions don't have any requirement to pay out a contract that he himself is breaking.

edit: just read your extra bit. Sure they don't have to trade him but if he demands to be traded, then surely he is forfeiting that contract however backended it is.

 

[Goldfish]

No problems understanding that Goldfish and I know that clubs can use salary as part of trade negotiations but my query was that if a player himself has initiated the move (as Sherman is rumoured to be doing for whatever reason). I.e. Sherman has asked to be traded therefore wanting to break his contract, so why are the Lions obligated to find him an equal deal? It may be in there best interests so they can get the best out of it, but surely the Lions don't have any requirement to pay out a contract that he himself is breaking.

edit: just read your extra bit. Sure they don't have to trade him but if he demands to be traded, then surely he is forfeiting that contract however backended it is.

He can demand / request all he wants, if Brisbane can't find a deal they are happy with he will remain a Lion. Seaby requested a trade at the end of 2008, but WCE couldn't find a suitable deal, and he played WAFL for pretty much all of 2009. Seabs was then out of contract and we traded him to Sydney for SFA.

Sherman can walk and therefore break his contract, but I think that means he isn't eligible to play for any team as he was still contracted at the time. It will therefore never happen, would be a stupid and costly decision for the player.

 

[Snuka]

Thanks for the clarification Goldfish.

Correct me if i'm wrong but this tells me that claims like those on this thread that Brisbane are 'not in a top spot to bargain' because of salary cap issues are off the mark. From what I have heard (which is basically just BF speculation & innuendo) Shermo doesn't get on with certain people at the club and wants out.

We can only assume that Brisbane were prepared to pay him what he is owed over the next two years (especially seeing as Rischa & Brennan have left). This makes it in Sherman's best interest to attempt to get the best deal for Brissie and puts the club in a fairly good position IMO.

 

[UpTheGuts]

But if he has already signed something with us that - subject to agreement being reached between Lions and Tigers (and bears, ooo my) -he won't accept a deal with another club then that reminds Lions that they need to deal with us first and foremost.

Given he doesn't want to be there, and is on a hefty salary for 2 years, and Lions have some acknowledged cap issues, then we'd be in a better position than most

whether I want us to be is another thing

 

[McGun]

There must be some serious problems up at Brisbane if Sherman who is on a huge contract wants to quit. Fair enough if he wanted to go home but he just wants to play for a new team.

 

[UpTheGuts]

There must be some serious problems up at Brisbane .

Yep. Every one of them has been caused by Voss, too.

Defensible strategy, but absolutely pathetic execution.

 

[Quigley]

UTG ignoring facts as per usual.

Sherman has supposedly signed something with Richmond nws this would be a blatant breach of the AFL rules.

Since supposedly signing something with Richmond he has visited both Sydney and the Bulldogs both of whom are very interested.

The Lions have cleared any salary cap issues they had with the departure of Rishitelli and Brennan. The Lions can pay him for the next two years and do so without dramas. They have not sought to trade Sherman for salary cap reasons he has requested to be traded. If the Lions don't get what they feel he is worth then he will be back playing for the Lions. They are in a strong bargaining position and Sherman has no option but to work with the Lions if he wants to go somewhere else.

 

[THE_GUN]

UTG ignoring facts as per usual.

Sherman has supposedly signed something with Richmond nws this would be a blatant breach of the AFL rules.

Since supposedly signing something with Richmond he has visited both Sydney and the Bulldogs both of whom are very interested.

The Lions have cleared any salary cap issues they had with the departure of Rishitelli and Brennan. The Lions can pay him for the next two years and do so without dramas. They have not sought to trade Sherman for salary cap reasons he has requested to be traded. If the Lions don't get what they feel he is worth then he will be back playing for the Lions. They are in a strong bargaining position and Sherman has no option but to work with the Lions if he wants to go somewhere else.

please let this happen !

 

[dlanod]

There must be some serious problems up at Brisbane if Sherman who is on a huge contract wants to quit. Fair enough if he wanted to go home but he just wants to play for a new team.

Rumour has it as a personality conflict. Having in been in similar situations at workplaces, I can understand wanting to leave regardless of the contract situation.

UTG ignoring facts as per usual.

Sherman has supposedly signed something with Richmond nws this would be a blatant breach of the AFL rules.

Since supposedly signing something with Richmond he has visited both Sydney and the Bulldogs both of whom are very interested.

The Lions have cleared any salary cap issues they had with the departure of Rishitelli and Brennan. The Lions can pay him for the next two years and do so without dramas. They have not sought to trade Sherman for salary cap reasons he has requested to be traded. If the Lions don't get what they feel he is worth then he will be back playing for the Lions. They are in a strong bargaining position and Sherman has no option but to work with the Lions if he wants to go somewhere else.

Was going to reply to UTG but Quigley summed it up well.

 

[mpal6]

But if he has already signed something with us that - subject to agreement being reached between Lions and Tigers (and bears, ooo my) -he won't accept a deal with another club then that reminds Lions that they need to deal with us first and foremost.

<drivel>

1. Rischitelli and Brennan have moved on. We have the cap space we need.
2. Sherman is contracted.
3. You give us a shit deal and we ask you to stick it up where sun doesn't shine.
4. Do you ever read your drivel or just make up something and just hit the post button ??

Enjoy !!

 

[UpTheGuts]

UTG ignoring facts as per usual.

Sherman has supposedly signed something with Richmond nws this would be a blatant breach of the AFL rules.

Since supposedly signing something with Richmond he has visited both Sydney and the Bulldogs both of whom are very interested.

The Lions have cleared any salary cap issues they had with the departure of Rishitelli and Brennan. The Lions can pay him for the next two years and do so without dramas. They have not sought to trade Sherman for salary cap reasons he has requested to be traded. If the Lions don't get what they feel he is worth then he will be back playing for the Lions. They are in a strong bargaining position and Sherman has no option but to work with the Lions if he wants to go somewhere else.

Just the messanger. Been a rough year for you guys but don't take it out on me.

It's really not that hard. Sherman wants to come to us, we apparently want him. Lions have agreed to pay him $450k a year for the next 2 years, which is clearly way too much.

They would do better to move him on, and he obviously wants to flee given the idiocy of the Lions football operations setup and his falling out with that "team".

If someone wants to leave, you have a vested interest in selling him and he and the suitor are in agreement then you are in a sticky situation.

This really is Trading 101 stuff. Wake up.

 

[boydsno1]

UTG ignoring facts as per usual.

Sherman has supposedly signed something with Richmond nws this would be a blatant breach of the AFL rules.

Since supposedly signing something with Richmond he has visited both Sydney and the Bulldogs both of whom are very interested.

The Lions have cleared any salary cap issues they had with the departure of Rishitelli and Brennan. The Lions can pay him for the next two years and do so without dramas. They have not sought to trade Sherman for salary cap reasons he has requested to be traded. If the Lions don't get what they feel he is worth then he will be back playing for the Lions. They are in a strong bargaining position and Sherman has no option but to work with the Lions if he wants to go somewhere else.

I hope your right about the dogs meeting him. Would love to have him at the club. Could soften the blow of losing harbrow a lil.

 

[UpTheGuts]

1. Rischitelli and Brennan have moved on. We have the cap space we need. TO KEEP FEV!!!! HARDLY HAPPY DAYS UP THERE - AND THE CAP SPACE IS JUST ONE ISSUE - YOUR VERY SURVIVAL IS THE SECOND. AS I HAVE SAID BEFORE THE NEED FOR THE LIONS TO SLASH WAGES IS 1) CAP RELATED AND 2) SOLVENCY RELATED
2. Sherman is contracted. AT A VERY HIGH LEVEL AND DESPERATELY WANTS TO LEAVE.
3. You give us a shit deal and we ask you to stick it up where sun doesn't shine. FINE - ENJOY THE DOWNHILL SKIIER WHO WILL COST YOU HEAPS TO KEEP AND DESPERATELY WANTS TO LEAVE. THINK HE'S WOrTH BETTER THAN A LATE SECOND ROUNDER, WITH THAT RIDICULOUS CONTRACT TO SELL TOO? LOL
4. Do you ever read your drivel or just make up something and just hit the post button ?? JUST BECAUSE I AM RIGHT AND YOU WISH I WASN'T DOESN'T MAKE WHAT I POST DRIVEL - THAT MIGHT MAKE IT AN INCONVENIENT TRUTH, BUT HARDLY DRIVEL

Enjoy !!

Hope you can comprehend

 

[lionsrules]

Just the messanger. Been a rough year for you guys but don't take it out on me.

It's really not that simple. Sherman wants to come to us, we apparently want him. Lions have agreed to pay him $450k a year for the next 2 years, which is clearly way too much.

They would do better to move him on, and he obviously wants to flee given the idiocy of the Lions football operations setup and his falling out with that "team".

If someone wants to leave, you have a vested interest in selling him and he and the suitor are in agreement then you are in a sticky situation.

This really is Trading 101 stuff. Wake up.

hahaha! The bold part is classic!! No is he just a little upset because he couldnt fit in the best 22 in an injury ravaged side. But because you support Richmond...you must know more then we do. All this anger and drivel against the lions by you all year...curious what grudges you hold??? Do you get more excitement from it then vasoline??

 

[Quigley]

Just the messanger. Been a rough year for you guys but don't take it out on me.

It's really not that hard. Sherman wants to come to us, we apparently want him. Lions have agreed to pay him $450k a year for the next 2 years, which is clearly way too much.

They would do better to move him on, and he obviously wants to flee given the idiocy of the Lions football operations setup and his falling out with that "team".

If someone wants to leave, you have a vested interest in selling him and he and the suitor are in agreement then you are in a sticky situation.

This really is Trading 101 stuff. Wake up.

Again you are not letting the facts stand in the way of a good story.

He previously signed a 3 year 900k contract. He did the team a big favour this year in renegotiating the payments so that he took only 100k this year to help out the cap issues. So he has two years remaining at 400k not 450k.

There are three teams interested in Sherman at least. The Lions I am sure will try and facilitate him going to the team that he wants to go to. That team though will need to put forward a reasonable offer because there is competition. Assuming Richmond is his preferred destination but they only offer a third rounder whilst the Bulldogs are offerring their compensation pick. The Lions will go back to Sherman and say sorry Justin we are not getting anywhere with Richmond and we have a better offer from the Bulldogs. You can either stay with us or you can be traded to the Bulldogs its your choice. If he really wants to be traded he will go to the Bulldogs.

As I mentioned previously there are very positive reports from meetings with all three clubs. The Lions are not the ones driving this. Therefore it is up to Sherman and his preferred club to come up with something the Lions can live with. If Richmond were his preferred destination and offerred their second rounder I am sure the Lions would accept it even if it was not quite as high as the Bulldogs selection for instance. With that said they are not in a position where they have to accept crap. Trading 101 really.

I think you are also assuming that Gubby Allen is still with the club. That is not the case thank god. Kerr has taken over (former head of the AFLPA and assistant at Essendon) and will be running things from Melb. Expect a change in attitude from the Lions this year.

 

[jackess]

I think if Sherman did want to go to Richmond he would not tell Richmond that he wants to go to them as it would queer the deal if Richmond used that to their advantage and that would then make it more difficult for the Lions to get a trade done with the Tigers. Especially this year when the clubs have very few worthwhile draft picks.

 

[mpal6]

Hope you can comprehend

Just the messanger. Been a rough year for you guys but don't take it out on me.

It's really not that hard. Sherman wants to come to us, we apparently want him. Lions have agreed to pay him $450k a year for the next 2 years, which is clearly way too much.

They would do better to move him on, and he obviously wants to flee given the idiocy of the Lions football operations setup and his falling out with that "team".

If someone wants to leave, you have a vested interest in selling him and he and the suitor are in agreement then you are in a sticky situation.

This really is Trading 101 stuff. Wake up.

Someone who is contracted wants to leave... and i will let you re-phrase your drivel yourself.

Haha, and suddenly now he becomes a downhill skier. Wonder why your team is sniffing around then. Recruiting downhill skiiers are you this season ?

Doesn't matter which way you spin it, its Sherman who wants out and we are not shopping him around. If you want to conveniently ignore this fact - as it makes you look like a dumb fool - so be it.

We can sit back, watch the paint dry, enjoy muppets like you go through the same rinse-n-repeat routine over n over again.

Looking forward to your next post - patting your own back about how accurate you were regarding Raines.. oh you tried to warn us, oh you were such a well-wisher.. drivel on...

 

[richoatthedisco]

Given Adelaide, Brisbane and Hawthorn are all more likely than not to use their GC compo picks this year, the Harbrow compo pick will be pick 29 if used this year. That would make Richmond's second rounder pick 33, which would be reasonable for Sherman. It's not that much later than 29 for Brisbane to worry about given Sherman's supposed desire to get to Richmond and the salary cap benefit from trading him to Richmond.

 

[UpTheGuts]

Someone who is contracted wants to leave... and i will let you re-phrase your drivel yourself.

Haha, and suddenly now he becomes a downhill skier. Wonder why your team is sniffing around then. Recruiting downhill skiiers are you this season ?

Doesn't matter which way you spin it, its Sherman who wants out and we are not shopping him around. If you want to conveniently ignore this fact - as it makes you look like a dumb fool - so be it.

My "drivel" last year included countless notes to all Lions that recruiting Raines was the height of stupidity and that you needed to improve your midfield, via someone like Tuck. Clearly, I was right. Ignore my pearls at your peril

UTG vs Gubby Allan. I bet you wish I was in charge of your recruiting last year!!!!

Hardwick has said we are after "outside" players, whereas the Lions clearly have issues winning the footy. He is a downhill skiier, so meets a need to some degree, as we're a bit light on them it seems. I think he's pretty ordinary myself. Top 5 B&F twice, but only for the Lions

3rd rounder. Hopefully he goes better than Jordie did!

Lions also need to flick him for solvency reasons. This is a justiable inference

 

[Hollow Knight]

It's not that much later than 29 for Brisbane to worry about given Sherman's supposed desire to get to Richmond and the salary cap benefit from trading him to Richmond.

Supposed being the key word. We have nothing concrete as regards to Sherman's intentions in that regard.

If he was fundemantally set on going to Richmond, I imagine he wouldn't have bothered to fly to Sydney to meet with John Longmore. Sounds like he is keeping his options open.

UTG: Tuck wouldnt have done anything for our midfield this year other than make it even slower (if that's even possible). Brisbane's midfield wasn't lacking in and under, it was lacking dynamic types who can manufacture clearances with pace, creativity and/or elusiveness. Pearl rejected.

As for Raines, you were but one of many backup singers in a choir singing that same tune. Hardly Robinson Cruesoe on that count.

 

[Quigley]

Given Adelaide, Brisbane and Hawthorn are all more likely than not to use their GC compo picks this year, the Harbrow compo pick will be pick 29 if used this year. That would make Richmond's second rounder pick 33, which would be reasonable for Sherman. It's not that much later than 29 for Brisbane to worry about given Sherman's supposed desire to get to Richmond and the salary cap benefit from trading him to Richmond.

Like I said above if Sherman was dead keen to go to Richmond I couldn't see the admin stopping him for the sake of 4 or so selections difference at the end of the first round / beginning of the second. This is especially the case given he did the club a favour at the beginning of the year by renegotiating his contract.

UTG - if all we can get is a third rounder Sherman will be playing for the Lions next year as he is contracted to do. We can pay his salary.

 

[partycorolla]

Like I said above if Sherman was dead keen to go to Richmond I couldn't see the admin stopping him for the sake of 4 or so selections difference at the end of the first round / beginning of the second. This is especially the case given he did the club a favour at the beginning of the year by renegotiating his contract.

UTG - if all we can get is a third rounder Sherman will be playing for the Lions next year as he is contracted to do. We can pay his salary.

Keep him, I really don't want him at a high cost (2nd rnd) as I don't think he is definitely worth it. Who signed him up to that contract??? His manager is a genius... Perhaps you guys might want Jordie as well. He and Raines are good mates and we'll throw in Hislop as well. We don't want anything for them, just to laugh if they play....

 

[yaco55]

Like I said above if Sherman was dead keen to go to Richmond I couldn't see the admin stopping him for the sake of 4 or so selections difference at the end of the first round / beginning of the second. This is especially the case given he did the club a favour at the beginning of the year by renegotiating his contract.

UTG - if all we can get is a third rounder Sherman will be playing for the Lions next year as he is contracted to do. We can pay his salary.

Richmond, Bulldogs - Who is the third club ?

Any more news on the Brennan trade to the GC.

 

[richoatthedisco]

If we can get another two top 20/30 picks by trading out the likes of Rance and McGuane I would have no problem using 33 to get Sherman. Pick 50-odd won't get it done.