Lets be realistic

[SWISH15]

I am as disapointed and angry as most of you on this board but is Mark Thompson really to blame for our poor season?? I dont think so. And i think sacking him would put our club further back than it is now. Last week after the win against Bulldogs we were all on a high and the fact that Mark Thompson out coached Rodney Eade played a major part in that victory. The fact of the matter is the loss against the kangaroos can be contributed to the fact we lossed 2 key players in the first 10 minutes NO CLUB would win a game with 2 fit men on the bench for 3 and ½ quarters this day and age. Bomber cant be blamed for this. If we are looking for a scapegoat for this season look no further than the players. There are players in the club that just havent inproved given the opportunity and they should and will be given the chop at the end of the season. Tenace, Byrnes, foot skills are terrible pace is important but not as much as foot skills. Tenace missed a goal from 15 metres out on therun right in front in the twos on saturday under no pressure at all. How can we win a flag with players with skills such as these. Kelly wont put his body on the line and again has poor foot skills. Mccarthy is useless once the ball hits the ground he just gives up where as Ottens fights like hell to keep it in. Please before shooting from the hit in regarss to Bombers position have a think and be realistic is his coaching losing us games??

 

[Reg Hickey]

The fact of the matter is the loss against the kangaroos can be contributed to the fact we lossed 2 key players in the first 10 minutes NO CLUB would win a game with 2 fit men on the bench for 3 and ½ quarters this day and age. Bomber cant be blamed for this.

Wrong, wrong, wrong, WRONG. FFS, WRONG!!

This sort of attitude is why we are in the position we are in - failure to take responsibility and face up to the bigger problems.

First, if you mean because we can't rotate the midfield on and off the bench as much, we simply rotate them through different positions on the field. If an AFL midfielder can't get through a game playing in the middle with a couple of spells in a pocket, he has no business in the side to begin with. And we still had two spots on the bench to use for those who couldn't.

Second, we didn't lose because we ran out of steam in any case. In fact we won the final quarter comfortably. The simple reality is that they wanted it more. The rot had well and truly set in before either Ablett or Ling of them went off the ground. We could have had ten on the bench and it probably wouldn't have made a difference because we simply weren't there.

If we are looking for a scapegoat for this season look no further than the players. There are players in the club that just havent inproved given the opportunity and they should and will be given the chop at the end of the season. Tenace, Byrnes, foot skills are terrible pace is important but not as much as foot skills. Tenace missed a goal from 15 metres out on therun right in front in the twos on saturday under no pressure at all. How can we win a flag with players with skills such as these. Kelly wont put his body on the line and again has poor foot skills. Mccarthy is useless once the ball hits the ground he just gives up where as Ottens fights like hell to keep it in.

This, on the other hand, is all true. Our foot skills are generally deplorable, attitude is not up to scratch and too many players cruise through games without putting in.

The players need to have a good hard look at themselves for sure. But maybe you should also ask yourself how much responsibility the coaches need to take for this?

 

[Stoney]

Kelly wont put his body on the line and again has poor foot skills. QUOTE]

You're both wrong ...

1) SWISH15 - How did Kelly get injured earlier in the season? putting his body on the line! How did Kelly break his leg in 2004? He was putting his body on the line.

I wish u didn't mention what u did about Kels because apart from that stray comment ur so close to the mark its not funny. I totally agree with ur stance on bomba thompson - he's not the problem at all...

2) Reg Hickey - Bomba's coaching isnt losing us the games, remember 1 week ago when we beat the Dogs? Bomba's decision to oppose Scarlo to Chris Grant 100 metres apart won us that game!!!

We won 5/6 - and the players still weren't performing, that tells me that our coaching must have been performing ok.

3) Also Reg, saying that AFL players who cant rest in a pocket instead of the bench have no business in the game ... hmm - in the old days ur point would have been valid. Not anymore, Adelaide have blown almost every team away, and all opponents attribute this to their hard running - important to note that NO (NOT ONE) Adelaide midfielder runs more than 3.5km before being given a spell on the bench.

It was revealed that every one of their midfielders is rested every 3km of running - and the way they have played tends to suggest that this is the way to go!

It is not Adelaide's list that is winning them games, it's the application of the list thats winning them games. On paper Adelaide are not that formidable, but the way the players work, the way Craig coaches all contribute to on-field success.

I believe if all our players worked like the Adelaide players, we would surpass Adelaide without too much trouble - when it comes to Thompson v Craig - Craig wins, but only by a very narrow margin. Don't blame Bomba - thats just stupid and rediculous!!!

 

[Kaitsey]

yeah but when it comes to woosh v craig, woosha wins, by 82 points

 

[DanA]

Bombers bad decisions:
This Week;
1) Leaving Steve Johnson on the feild while getting carved up by Corey Jones
2) Allowing Joel Corey to play at full back for almost a half a game
3) James Kelly on Shannon Grant



Last week;
1) Leaving Harley on Brad Johson
2) Playing Egan at CHF for 5 minutes, he sets up a goal, then moving him.
3) Starting Scarlett on Matty Robbins for a quarter?


More General;
1) Trying to play King while injured for 3 years
2) To attached to the players
3) Continues to play guys in poor form.

 

[SJ]

I am as disapointed and angry as most of you on this board but is Mark Thompson really to blame for our poor season?? I dont think so. And i think sacking him would put our club further back than it is now. Last week after the win against Bulldogs we were all on a high and the fact that Mark Thompson out coached Rodney Eade played a major part in that victory. The fact of the matter is the loss against the kangaroos can be contributed to the fact we lossed 2 key players in the first 10 minutes NO CLUB would win a game with 2 fit men on the bench for 3 and ½ quarters this day and age. Bomber cant be blamed for this. If we are looking for a scapegoat for this season look no further than the players. There are players in the club that just havent inproved given the opportunity and they should and will be given the chop at the end of the season. Tenace, Byrnes, foot skills are terrible pace is important but not as much as foot skills. Tenace missed a goal from 15 metres out on therun right in front in the twos on saturday under no pressure at all. How can we win a flag with players with skills such as these. Kelly wont put his body on the line and again has poor foot skills. Mccarthy is useless once the ball hits the ground he just gives up where as Ottens fights like hell to keep it in. Please before shooting from the hit in regarss to Bombers position have a think and be realistic is his coaching losing us games??

I have never disagreed with something so much in my life. Thompson has been the major problem this year. I could go on and on but I'll just mention a few things:

• Losses against Hawthorn, the Bulldogs (Rd 4), Melbourne, Collingwood, Richmond, West Coast and the Kangaroos were not good enough.
  • Against Hawthorn and Richmond we played pathetic footy at our home ground. Didn't even try to carve them up in the first quarter, which should have been the plan. Even so, still in it at 3/4 time, and didn't give a whimper in the last. A long kicking, 'high percentage play' game would have done the trick. Our players don't have the skills to take 20 possessions to move the footy down the field. The quicker the better, in my book. We might not have the best key forwards in the league but they bring it to ground and we have 2 of the best 5 small forwards.
  • Against the Bulldogs I think we were a couple of goals up early before they hit back very quickly with a few replies. Two late goals made it more respectable.
  • Against Melboure - no excuse. Four goals up playing GOOD, HARD, ACCOUNTABLE, WET WEATHER FOOTY. A game of metre-age. Somehow changed that style and managed to lose it.
  • Against Collingwood - he said he wasn't going to flood after the St Kilda game - and what does he do? Goes ahead to try to flood on the 'unfloodable' 'G.
  • Against West Coast - dear oh dear oh dear. One of the worst losses in the history of the club, certainly one of the worst I've seen. 54 points up half way through the third, Harley injured, therefore one big man down. Mooney goes back, Hunter follows him (therefore, again, still one big man down) and wins the game for them. Thompson didn't even try winning it, he just wanted to save it. Didn't change it up in the last 45 minutes of the match. "It was like watching a train wreck."
  • Against Kangaroos - say no more.
• Got away with three wins (St Kilda, Port Adelaide, Bulldogs (Rd 16)), when we looked at our best playing some good footy for bits and pieces, but changed a winning formula. Same thing we did in above losses.
• In 7 years the disposal skills of our players haven't improved.
• Our accuracy for goal is always suspect.
• The players don't take enough responsibility (Always trying to pass it off inside 50 just to stuff it up - hopeless. Go back and kick the bloody thing.)
• Very often a mark/free kick is taken, and players immediately look to handpass to someone flat-footed behind them, leading to a turnover.

This wasn't very coherent, but in summary, we are clearly at our best when we play direct footy. We don't have the skills to try and keep possession and hit a lead. Get it into the big fellas as fast as possibly who bring it to ground and create goals. Just like we did against Freo. Our best match of the year. Thompson rarely uses that tactic. Say no more.

 

[Reg Hickey]

Reg Hickey - Bomba's coaching isnt losing us the games, remember 1 week ago when we beat the Dogs? Bomba's decision to oppose Scarlo to Chris Grant 100 metres apart won us that game!!!

We won 5/6 - and the players still weren't performing, that tells me that our coaching must have been performing ok.

3) Also Reg, saying that AFL players who cant rest in a pocket instead of the bench have no business in the game ... hmm - in the old days ur point would have been valid. Not anymore, Adelaide have blown almost every team away, and all opponents attribute this to their hard running - important to note that NO (NOT ONE) Adelaide midfielder runs more than 3.5km before being given a spell on the bench.

It was revealed that every one of their midfielders is rested every 3km of running - and the way they have played tends to suggest that this is the way to go!

It is not Adelaide's list that is winning them games, it's the application of the list thats winning them games. On paper Adelaide are not that formidable, but the way the players work, the way Craig coaches all contribute to on-field success.

I believe if all our players worked like the Adelaide players, we would surpass Adelaide without too much trouble - when it comes to Thompson v Craig - Craig wins, but only by a very narrow margin. Don't blame Bomba - thats just stupid and rediculous!!!

What is losing us games is poor skills especially by foot, poor attitude and effort with players cruising through games, and an inability to adapt to what is happening on the field. The last two posters raised some good points to illustrate this last one. Now certainly the players need to bear a lot of responsibility for this, which I said in my first post. But what are the coaches there for if not to develop the players, get them ready and firing for games, and employ match day tactics? To absolve them of responsibility is ridiculous.

As for your other point, are you suggesting that if the Crows had two injuries early in the game, they couldn't still beat the Roos at Manuka? Because that's my point - to blame the injuries for the loss is a simple failure to face the real issues. Certainly its great to be able to rest players on the bench, but if you can't, it shouldn't cause what happened yesterday. Especially as the vast majority of the damage was done in the first half - we actually won the second half. I agree that if our players work like the Crows do we would be a much, much better side, but the fact we didn't yesterday has everything to do with fitness, attitude, desire and effort and nothing to do with two less spots on the bench to rotate players through.

 

[sarah.13]

Realistic. We have all been fooled. The coach has fooled himself and the players, the players have fooled themselves and the supporters and we have fooled ourselves. This list is not up to winning a flag, how many of them would walk into the crows side, ( 6-8) maybe. We need a cleanout,

 

[CatFanatic]

I am as disapointed and angry as most of you on this board but is Mark Thompson really to blame for our poor season?? I dont think so. And i think sacking him would put our club further back than it is now. Last week after the win against Bulldogs we were all on a high and the fact that Mark Thompson out coached Rodney Eade played a major part in that victory. The fact of the matter is the loss against the kangaroos can be contributed to the fact we lossed 2 key players in the first 10 minutes NO CLUB would win a game with 2 fit men on the bench for 3 and ½ quarters this day and age. Bomber cant be blamed for this. If we are looking for a scapegoat for this season look no further than the players. There are players in the club that just havent inproved given the opportunity and they should and will be given the chop at the end of the season. Tenace, Byrnes, foot skills are terrible pace is important but not as much as foot skills. Tenace missed a goal from 15 metres out on therun right in front in the twos on saturday under no pressure at all. How can we win a flag with players with skills such as these. Kelly wont put his body on the line and again has poor foot skills. Mccarthy is useless once the ball hits the ground he just gives up where as Ottens fights like hell to keep it in. Please before shooting from the hit in regarss to Bombers position have a think and be realistic is his coaching losing us games??

Have you been watching our games?
Time and time again we allow the opposition players to take the ball from one end to the other and all we ever do is try to "Corral" them so they have to stay near the boundary.
While this may not be obvious if you watched it on TV; at the game it was obvious and it happened countless times.
Our players must be instructed to play like this there can be no other answer.
Bombers game plan stinks and I dont believe he is smart enough or capable of variation.
You do not have to be very intelligent to work out that if you let the ball into the opposition 50 then eventually they must score but this simple fact seems to escape Thompson.
I have been saying for the last three years that Thompson is not the coach that can win us a flag and have never seen anything to change my opinion.

 

[finrod]

There is an article today on GFC.com.au where Bomber states that he still thinks we are a chance to play finals.... realistic?

 

[jess_555]

There is an article today on GFC.com.au where Bomber states that he still thinks we are a chance to play finals.... realistic?

He has to say that really until it is mathematically impossible. Even Richmond reckon they are in with a chance to plat finals. Terry Wallace said this on Saturday the 29 July. "We will just keep playing each week and see where it (our season) goes. We have far more than a mathematical chance of playing in the finals, the ball is still in our court."

 

[Partridge]

There is an article today on GFC.com.au where Bomber states that he still thinks we are a chance to play finals.... realistic?

Nope. It's just Thompson's way of fobbing off the press. No one will dare ask challenging questions to him - such as:

1. Why did you leave Steve Johnson on the ground?
2. Why did you leave James Kelly on the ground?
3. Why was Brad Ottens always contesting against 2 opponents instead of one?
4. Why did you leave Joel Corey - apparently an onballer - at fullback?
5. If you have players injured during a game do you just give up? Because your post-match comments seem to indicate that.

Let's see if anyone asks Thompson those, I bet it won't happen. He is a fool. Cannot coach, and has promising players that are going backwards due to the way he coaches them. I still think some of our players could flourish with a good coach at the helm, but not with this idiot.

 

[DanA]

If you have players injured during a game do you just give up? Because your post-match comments seem to indicate that.
.

Remember the Hawthorn vs Geelong game. King gets injured 5 mins into the game. Game over. Classic example of this.

The amount of tactical coaching errors made this year is rediculous and unacceptable. Smarter coaching on game day would have meant were are in the 8 this year.

 

[Sir Gusset]

simple fact: he is the most pathetic game day coach in the AFL. He has no insight into how to change or manipulate a game pattern as it's unfolding.
He is hit and miss at best and usually seems to be on Adeliade time cause changes happen 30minutes after everyone in the outer has picked up on it.

Costa has come out and said that he isn't blaming bomber for the weekends loss. Having said that he still hasn't confirmed if he'll be there next year or not. I can only hope that he isn't. We are finacially stable enough to pay out his final year and get some fresh ideas around the club for 2007. I really do hope that common sense prevails.

 

[SWISH15]

Righto Cat fanatic since your a brainiac what is your style of football we should be playing im looking forward to hearing this!!

 

[Sir Gusset]

Righto Cat fanatic since your a brainiac what is your style of football we should be playing im looking forward to hearing this!!

hard work, decent skills and accountability would be nice.

 

[Mooney_d'King]

simple fact: he is the most pathetic game day coach in the AFL. He has no insight into how to change or manipulate a game pattern as it's unfolding.
He is hit and miss at best and usually seems to be on Adeliade time cause changes happen 30minutes after everyone in the outer has picked up on it.

Costa has come out and said that he isn't blaming bomber for the weekends loss. Having said that he still hasn't confirmed if he'll be there next year or not. I can only hope that he isn't. We are finacially stable enough to pay out his final year and get some fresh ideas around the club for 2007. I really do hope that common sense prevails.

Got anyone lined up for the big job?
Also, I heard recently that the St Kilda players had all done a level 2 coaching course. Maybe something like that would be good for our players so they could implement strategy on field better...

 

[SJ]

Righto Cat fanatic since your a brainiac what is your style of football we should be playing im looking forward to hearing this!!

Simple answer - can't believe you think we are playing the best style we can.

This year has really opened my eyes - Thompson has either taught the club to play a chipping game, or he allows it to happen for the majority of games.

In bursts this year we have played fantastic, direct footy. Here I'm thinking first 15 minutes of the last quarter against Port, the whole match against Freo, the first 75 minutes against Melbourne. During these periods, we were confident, never went backwards or sideways, and looked very dangerous. We went down the centre, kicked long to the big fellas (who, granted, aren't the best in the league) who either take a mark, or more likely bring it to ground where 2 of the best 5 small forwards in the competition wait dangerously. This is the game plan we played in 2004, and to a lesser extent, 2005. In 2004, we didn't have a side with the experience we had today, but we had enthusiastic and hard players who played the percentages. We had a side where Wojcinski, Moloney and Riccardi regularly ran their full measure through the centre and kicked it long and direct (not 'bombed', like Ling and Kelly do) into the forward line. I've heard these types of players called '70m players' - because they run 15m and kick it 55m.

Granted, this style of play doesn't work 100% of the time, but most of the time it does, and it annoys me that the majority of the time we don't even try it.

Also, in many of our losses this year we have been playing this style early on (Melbourne, West Coast), or in bursts during the game, only to change the plan and lose the match or lose momentum. It happens almost every week, everyone can see it happen Why change a winning plan? Same thing happened against Brisbane in the Prelim in 2004. We started mucking around with it and look what happened.

It's so simple.

 

[Sir Gusset]

spot on S "thinks He's Daicos" J

To suggest that this is the players fault because they aren't sticking to the coaching strategies means that bomber isn't respected and can't motivate them.

But then again remember when we were about 40 odd points up against WCE and bomber hit the panic button and threw Mooney to the backline. This single coaching error sums the man up, he went negative and didn't know how to fix it once all momentum was against us. He is a walking contradiction and while he says one thing he means another. FFS take responsibility and walk at the end of this year bomber.

 

[Partridge]

Righto Cat fanatic since your a brainiac what is your style of football we should be playing im looking forward to hearing this!!

I'd suggest the following things be implemented:

1. Accountability - A mysterious concept in modern football. It means actually running with your opponent instead of 5-20 metres away at a slow shuffle. It means when there is a loose player you take responsiblity and go to him instead of pointing at someone else (see Ling and Kelly, the masters of this hidden art).

2. Pressure - Another forgotten concept. When the opposition has the ball, chase them until they turn it over. If they are cruising down the ground alone (see Round 4 v Footscray), leave your man and run straight at them. Challenge them to beat you instead of conceding defeat. If you are 50 metres behind, run to exhaustion until you catch them. For a perfect example see Matthew Stokes v Port Adelaide in the last quarter.

3. Play Direct - As critical as I have been of our forward line, the game style does not help. We have Mooney and Ottens who can take a grab, wouldn't the obvious thing to do be kick it long quickly? The best football we've played this year was when they moved it fast and kicked long with purpose. Strange things happen when you get quality players one out with opponents, they might just win the ball. It also beats defensive tactics as spare defenders don't have time to get back.

There's 3 improvements for starters. Don't hold your breath for it to happen though.

 

[SJ]

Partridge, bravo. Spot on.

In my book, a successful team in any sport 'does what the opponent does not want it to do'.

• Opposition defenders don't want the ball coming in quickly and directly in the the forward line.
• Opposition players don't want to be chased when they have the ball.
• Opposition players don't want to be followed all day long.

We should do what they don't want us to do. This year, most games have been played on our oppositions' terms.

 

[Partridge]

In my book, a successful team in any sport 'does what the opponent does not want it to do'.

• Opposition defenders don't want the ball coming in quickly and directly in the the forward line.
• Opposition players don't want to be chased when they have the ball.
• Opposition players don't want to be followed all day long.

We should do what they don't want us to do. This year, most games have been played on our oppositions' terms.

That's the most frustrating thing. It seems all the Geelong fans who contribute here are thinking along the same lines. I read in the Age yesterday an online blog about Cameron Mooney. The remarkable thing was 75% of the posters were more critical of Thompson and the usual suspects - Kelly, S Johnson etc. Shows we're not alone.

 

[Mooney_d'King]

VERY good thinking guys, very eloquent. Check out these articles too:

http://www.theage.com.au/realfooty/...eels-the-strain/2006/08/01/1154198139880.html

and for a more poetic game appraisal:
http://www.realfooty.theage.com.au/realfooty/articles/2006/08/01/1154198139907.html

I can start to hear the thunder rumbling in the gathering clouds...

 

[chapmanmagic35]

I'd suggest the following things be implemented:

1. Accountability - A mysterious concept in modern football. It means actually running with your opponent instead of 5-20 metres away at a slow shuffle. It means when there is a loose player you take responsiblity and go to him instead of pointing at someone else (see Ling and Kelly, the masters of this hidden art).

2. Pressure - Another forgotten concept. When the opposition has the ball, chase them until they turn it over. If they are cruising down the ground alone (see Round 4 v Footscray), leave your man and run straight at them. Challenge them to beat you instead of conceding defeat. If you are 50 metres behind, run to exhaustion until you catch them. For a perfect example see Matthew Stokes v Port Adelaide in the last quarter.

3. Play Direct - As critical as I have been of our forward line, the game style does not help. We have Mooney and Ottens who can take a grab, wouldn't the obvious thing to do be kick it long quickly? The best football we've played this year was when they moved it fast and kicked long with purpose. Strange things happen when you get quality players one out with opponents, they might just win the ball. It also beats defensive tactics as spare defenders don't have time to get back.

There's 3 improvements for starters. Don't hold your breath for it to happen though.

Good post...