Analysis Level-Headed Discussion

[TheWing121]

I question buckleys tactics and strategies, however i doubt he is that stupid to not realise this is where the game is heading, the more creative, skillful route. I very highly doubt its an instruction. None the less, buckley lost me on the weekend against St. Kilda, and if we go out there with the same bulls*** against the dee's ill be flicking over to a different game

I am not suggesting we are on track to do what we did in 2009. But the start to that season we lost 4 of our first 9 including an average Adelaide, Essendon & Carlton. I think we got smashed by Carlton and everyone was saying the game plan is not working etc. But we seemed to click in the second part of the season and in 2010 everyone knows what happened. Even though we had some bad moments early 2010 as well.

My point I guess is, I am hoping it was an off day at the office and we are adjusting to Buckley's game plan and hopefully things will click. It doesn't help when the effort doesn't appear to be their, but I think effort was compounded by terrible entry into the f50, I think their was 17 uncontested marks by Saints players in our 50. Bucks said on 360 last night, from every rebound out of our 50 they entered their forward 50. Which doesn't help and makes our defenders look bad

 

[Aishole]

I am not suggesting we are on track to do what we did in 2009. But the start to that season we lost 4 of our first 9 including an average Adelaide, Essendon & Carlton. I think we got smashed by Carlton and everyone was saying the game plan is not working etc. But we seemed to click in the second part of the season and in 2010 everyone knows what happened. Even though we had some bad moments early 2010 as well.

My point I guess is, I am hoping it was an off day at the office and we are adjusting to Buckley's game plan and hopefully things will click. It doesn't help when the effort doesn't appear to be their, but I think effort was compounded by terrible entry into the f50, I think their was 17 uncontested marks by Saints players in our 50. Bucks said on 360 last night, from every rebound out of our 50 they entered their forward 50. Which doesn't help and makes our defenders look bad

I hope we come good too, i just can't see it. Then again in 2009 i probably wouldn't have either

 

[loki04]

These are not reasons to justify stupid selections. The Richmond game did not warrant 4 changes.

1 was all that was needed, Gault for Goldsack.

Instead he brings in Maynard and Goodyear, inexperience, and drops Macaffer and Frost, experience.

What did he expect was going to happen, we would perform better than we did vs Richmond?? Surely you're having a laugh.

Macaffer was a witches hat 2 weeks running. Just because he is experienced doesn't give him carte blanch to spud it up and he is miles off the pace. Deservedly dropped.

Tooves has been off the boil since his reco he also adds to the ever long list of poor kicks.

Buckley is obviously trying to hasten Maynards development to help address the kicking issues.
Was Maynard putrid yes.

Gault should of been delisted 2 years ago only blind freddy and Hine couldn't see that he was not up to it.

 

[Markfs]

what would you say to browny

i'd say, "what club do you see yourself at in 2017?" If he's really keen on staying then I'd talk about him being in the team for particular matchups. There are only a few teams with players like Hawkins etc. I dont think any team would trade for him. We have travelled a long way down the road putting games into a few players....brown is one and sinclair is another. Frosty is another to some extent. Lots of games being put into players with questionable skills. On their own, it's not a problem but when you put them all in one backline, the result is "ordinary".

I saw a couple of times on saturday where st. kilda held the ball and just probed. They kicked it to each other for probably 15 times or more. I dont think I've ever seen us cross the field 3 or 4 times and manage to hold on to the ball. Brown isnt the complete problem but he's part of it. He kicks under the ball and he kicks down the line. He kicks it long down the line to opposition players when he's under pressure because that's the limit of his capabilities.

I'd sit the recruiting people down too. This whole problem has been systemic for years. Something has to change. Football is going in a particular direction and we are not onboard.

 

[loki04]

i'd say, "what club do you see yourself at in 2017?" If he's really keen on staying then I'd talk about him being in the team for particular matchups. There are only a few teams with players like Hawkins etc. I dont think any team would trade for him. We have travelled a long way down the road putting games into a few players....brown is one and sinclair is another. Frosty is another to some extent. Lots of games being put into players with questionable skills. On their own, it's not a problem but when you put them all in one backline, the result is "ordinary".

I saw a couple of times on saturday where st. kilda held the ball and just probed. They kicked it to each other for probably 15 times or more. I dont think I've ever seen us cross the field 3 or 4 times and manage to hold on to the ball. Brown isnt the complete problem but he's part of it. He kicks under the ball and he kicks down the line. He kicks it long down the line to opposition players when he's under pressure because that's the limit of his capabilities.

I'd sit the recruiting people down too. This whole problem has been systemic for years. Something has to change. Football is going in a particular direction and we are not onboard.

This is something we can agree on.

 

[TradeDraft]

The one thing that has pissed me off most about this season is team continuity.

Bucks' for whatever reason has been far too drastic when choosing our best 22.

Having experienced players like Toovey not play for the Bulldogs pre-season game to me was baffling and now we are 3 rounds in and still haven't seen him, I am in shock.


I let that slide, there are people here that for some ******* reason don't rate Toovey ahead of kids like Maynard and Marsh, which don't get me wrong, are the future, but to me are no where near the consistency of a Toovey yet.


Let's just remember Maynard vs Sydney, was the player that hurt us the most, he was never on his man, NEVER, and he is meant to be a defender first and foremost, had 8 touches and got a lucky goal.

He was omitted.

So I was like "Ok, maybe some experience can come in Bucks, like say Goldsack or Toovey?"


Nope, enter Round 2. Ok we get Reid back yes but....

Maynard omitted and in comes Aish.......
The players that are being paid the most are not in the seniors..........


Aish vs Richmond was horrible.... Along with Gault. Both in my mind needed to make way for some experience, which is still waiting.

Macaffer wasn't that bad vs Richmond, he was quiet but was defensively stronger than Aish and others.



So enter Round 3 and what happens? Where is the experience? Enter Goldsack.
Maybe a simple Goldsack for Gault swap?


No.


Bucks this time decides to be even more drastic, just as the team had a decent second half vs Richmond and a strong last 10 minutes, he decides to go crazy at the selection table.





When the 22 is named for Round 3 I see the team and I am literally in shock, I was expecting a simple Gault out and Goldsack in, but no.

Aish stays. (Inexperienced)

Macaffer out. (Experienced)

Maynard comes in WTF, HE WAS PATHETIC VS SYDNEY?!? (Inexperienced)

Goodyear comes in. Ummmmm Bucks' are you serious right now? (Inexperienced)


So the teams come out and in my head I am thinking, hmmm, I would have been confident with the same team vs Richmond, but now we not only have to carry Aish who is still a baby, but we also now have Maynard who needs to be carried and also Goodyear??

Really Bucks?


THEY JUST STARTED TO GEL IN THE SECOND HALF VS RICHMOND AND YOU MAKE 4 CHANGES???? WE DIDN'T EVEN NEED TO MAKE ANY CHANGES, THERE WERE ZERO INJURIES, BUT YOU MAKE 4 CHANGES??? WTF DUMB!??!??!! WHERE IS CONTINUITY FFS!

So I was at the game vs St Kilda, Goodyear, first kick in AFL football, turnover, goal to saints.
Goodyear third kick in AFL football, turnover, goal to saints.

I was furious, not at the team, but at Bucks'. The selections have been nothing short of dumb. Dumb dumb dumb selections.
Not the players fault.

Bucks' fault, shit dumb bad stupid, VERY VERY STUPID team selections. While we have PROVEN RELIABLE players in Toovey playing VFL practice matches, Bucks has players like Goodyear, Aish and Maynard in the seniors, who have all done nothing but hurt us defensively and barely done anything offensively.

So Bucks vs St Kilda had Aish, Goodyear and Maynard ahead of Toovey, Macaffer, Frost, White, Marsh and Broomhead.


Bucks' is Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb

So drop all the Kids for Experience?

You want to be the next Coach?

 

[left at home]

i'd say, "what club do you see yourself at in 2017?" If he's really keen on staying then I'd talk about him being in the team for particular matchups. There are only a few teams with players like Hawkins etc. I dont think any team would trade for him. We have travelled a long way down the road putting games into a few players....brown is one and sinclair is another. Frosty is another to some extent. Lots of games being put into players with questionable skills. On their own, it's not a problem but when you put them all in one backline, the result is "ordinary".

I saw a couple of times on saturday where st. kilda held the ball and just probed. They kicked it to each other for probably 15 times or more. I dont think I've ever seen us cross the field 3 or 4 times and manage to hold on to the ball. Brown isnt the complete problem but he's part of it. He kicks under the ball and he kicks down the line. He kicks it long down the line to opposition players when he's under pressure because that's the limit of his capabilities.

I'd sit the recruiting people down too. This whole problem has been systemic for years. Something has to change. Football is going in a particular direction and we are not onboard.

l agree with nearly all of your post, but if you look at the best teams there fullback is not the greatest of disposal, but there others that are in our team
and that's are problem, l can live with browny not been the greatest because rarely does he get beaten. but the others around him, the small to medium
defenders have to be a lot better than they are. that's usually where you get your attack from and ours are not yet up to it, wether it is run and carry, kicking or when to go to cover the next man. l am a bit old school as l believe in a very good spine and you build a team around it, and Nathan is one of them along with reid,

 

[Gungadin]

Eddie filling in for Robbo tonight on AFL 360. Pretty much read off the script when pressed by Gerard, on Buckleys future, and how the team is performing at the moment.

 

[BPikkers]

I think one of the problems is that Buckley doesn't actually know what our best team looks like.

I was mildly surprised with the make-up of the team in round 1.

The weekly changes (and I understand some are forced) are not doing the group any favours. Knowing your best team and the positions they are to play and persisting with them for an extended period should be the first step. The depth comes in due to injury, a long period of a player stinking it up, or match ups/change of game plan.

Maynard is a case in point. He played round 1 so I would have thought Bucks sees him owning his spot. He has a terrible game so he is dropped in round 2 and then he finds himself back in the team round 3. I'm sure he would have been playing round 3 with limited confidence. If Bucks hasn't dropped him and explained he will be given time to pick up his game, I'm sure Maynard would be better for it.

The coach needs to still a sense of support for the playing group. The unforced chopping and changing doesn't actually help confidence.

 

[NT.Thunder]

I think one of the problems is that Buckley doesn't actually know what our best team looks like.

I was mildly surprised with the make-up of the team in round 1.

The weekly changes (and I understand some are forced) are not doing the group any favours. Knowing your best team and the positions they are to play and persisting with them for an extended period should be the first step. The depth comes in due to injury, a long period of a player stinking it up, or match ups/change of game plan.

Maynard is a case in point. He played round 1 so I would have thought Bucks sees him owning his spot. He has a terrible game so he is dropped in round 2 and then he finds himself back in the team round 3. I'm sure he would have been playing round 3 with limited confidence. If Bucks hasn't dropped him and explained he will be given time to pick up his game, I'm sure Maynard would be better for it.

The coach needs to still a sense of support for the playing group. The unforced chopping and changing doesn't actually help confidence.

I have no idea what our best 22 looks like. It reminds me of the Australian Cricket team when they were struggling and rather than getting consistency into the team, it was all very reactive and seemed dealt more by emotion than thought process, I trust this isn't the case though just how I perceive it.

The other issue is that the team balance is way out due to critical injuries and form. Guys like Elliott, Reid, Swan, Varcoe, Sidebottom (Susp), Williams and even Scharenberg who the club and supporters would have penciled in as being a major part of our HBF by 2016 have all been in and out unsettling the makeup of the team. I think the gap from these players to their replacement is too large at the moment. We have depth potential but not depth. Throw in an under-performing Cloke, inconsistent Fasolo and a ruck duo that it appears no-one can agree on best make-up both supporters and club combined, and we were always going to do it tough.

It's tough. ATM the difference between those that are capable of playing and maintaining finals football which are missing or out of form and those filling spots is just too great.

 

[deano_66]

I was at both the Richmond and St Kilda game i think there is something definitely that isnt communicating right between the coaches and the players. Against St Kilda they were allowed somebody running out of their defense all day all alone whether it was Montagna or billings. Montagna 40 disposals and 36 uncontested and Billings 30 disposals and 27 uncontested simply you have to man them up. Our forwards werent allowed to put any pressure on because the game plan didn't allow them too as there was always a loose. Against Richmond it was the same thing for some stupid reason with a minute to go us 5 points down they were allowed to have a loose back we were simply lucky they were stupid enough instead of using their loose man kicking it long to a contest where we had our loose man.

 

[Buckley is my hero]

I think one of the problems is that Buckley doesn't actually know what our best team looks like.

I was mildly surprised with the make-up of the team in round 1.

The weekly changes (and I understand some are forced) are not doing the group any favours. Knowing your best team and the positions they are to play and persisting with them for an extended period should be the first step. The depth comes in due to injury, a long period of a player stinking it up, or match ups/change of game plan.

Maynard is a case in point. He played round 1 so I would have thought Bucks sees him owning his spot. He has a terrible game so he is dropped in round 2 and then he finds himself back in the team round 3. I'm sure he would have been playing round 3 with limited confidence. If Bucks hasn't dropped him and explained he will be given time to pick up his game, I'm sure Maynard would be better for it.

The coach needs to still a sense of support for the playing group. The unforced chopping and changing doesn't actually help confidence.

Maynard was terrible against Sydney and we had Reid coming back for the Sydney game so Maynard lost his spot. That doesn't mean that Buckley doesn't see Maynard as in his best 22. I think the message would have been to keep working on his game with the view to earning his spot back in the side. The reason Maynard got promoted back into the team for the StKilda game was that Ramsay got injured. But for injuries the Collingwood side would be much more stable with fewer changes each week. Your point about treating players with kid gloves doesn't always work. Evidence of this was the first quarter against StKilda. Maynard was terrible. Hart got stuck into him in the quarter time huddle and Maynard got better after that. In fact I thought Maynard played well the last quarter.