Toast Levi Casboult

[Jeremias]

Wasn't it Blake caracella the one who fixed his kicking. ??

Perhaps, but Ben Perkins is who I was thinking of, as mentioned above. He's also worked with Hawkins.

 

[Bell Ringer]

Perhaps, but Ben Perkins is who I was thinking of, as mentioned above. He's also worked with Hawkins.

Hawkins credited Caracella for the improvement in his kicking this year when interviewed on "On the Couch" on Monday night @ the AA dinner.

 

[Dramoth]

Definition. The leigh brown position, an average at best tall forward who pinch hits in the ruck and plays off the coat tails of two in form tall forwards.

That could also cover Cloke and Dawes really... the average at best tall forward but Cloke doesnt ruck...

 

[Dramoth]

Jeezus mate, if you think Cloke is an average tall forward, you really need to watch some footy, or take you head out your a**. Im not advocating that we get him, but even blind Freddy can see that he is a an A-Grade KPF.

Bullshit... averaging 1.6 goals per game over his career is an average tall forward. He is an A-grade contested mark. But thats about all he is. 172 games, 283 goals... not exactly the figures of an A-grade KPF

An A-grade KPF is someone who averages 3 goals per game over his career...

Fev managed it... Buddy is currently on 3.2 goals/game

Buddy wins matches off his own boot... Cloke doesnt. I would pay 1 mill a season for Buddy... Cloke is worth about half of that really.

So... how about you pull your head out of your arse and watch some football and do some research before opening your mouth in future. Then you wont get embarrassed when talking about 'A-grade' KPF.

PS: Jarryd Roughead's figures as a CHF playing in the same team as Buddy... 1.9 goals/game. I would even take Roughy for the money we are supposedly offering Cloke.

 

[Dramoth]

Jeezus mate, if you think Cloke is an average tall forward, you really need to watch some footy, or take you head out your a**. Im not advocating that we get him, but even blind Freddy can see that he is a an A-Grade KPF.

Ohh... and both Buddy and Roughy have played less games than Cloke have after being recruited in the same year as Cloke. So Cloke must be so awesome we just have to get him to Carlton because he is so much better than both of those guys...

 

[pumped]

That could also cover Cloke and Dawes really... the average at best tall forward but Cloke doesnt ruck...

Think Levi is potentially far more of an impact player than Brown was.

 

[4thchicken]

All about stats isn't it mate . Sound a bit like a coach who just recently lost his job actually. Show me a stat for presence, packs crashed, or the number of time opposition defenders have gone for a 2 on 1 vs Cloke, leaving another forward free in a dangerous position. You ask 18 coaches in the AFL who they want as their KPF out of Cloke and Roughead, 18 of them would pick Cloke. He isn't recognised as one of the best KPF's in the game, by the entire industry by mistake mate.

Cloke is considered the best due to his contested marking.

We have a young player on our list that clearly excels in this department, did extremely well when given the opportunity with 0 fitness base and who still has huge scope for improvement (having played footy only since 16).

Yet we appear willing to risk losing him for cloke...


Put simply Casboult + 800k >>> Cloke

The difference in pure marking ability between the casboult and cloke isnt that great and the extra 800k could easily be spent on other free ageny options

casboult + goddard + change >>> cloke

or

casboult + free agent that can fill a need (pearce, knights, drummond, chaplin, young) + lot of change >>> cooke

 

[Silvagnis]

That could also cover Cloke and Dawes really... the average at best tall forward but Cloke doesnt ruck...

Just stop.

Unlike Carlton who dumped Fevola, they don't have the likes of Waite, Henderson and O'hAilpin to cover the loss of their best tall forward. They kicked 87 goals between them to get us into the 2010 finals. They'd have to rely on Dawes, Paine and possibly Quinten Lynch taking on the best defenders. Don't see those three forwards having the same impact if they lose Cloke.

 

[SE_Blue]

I think my favourite part of this forum is the absolutely over-the-top rage-filled responses from people when their opinions are even remotely challenged. Sometimes hard to believe we all barrack for the same team

 

[The Coach]

Bullshit... averaging 1.6 goals per game over his career is an average tall forward. He is an A-grade contested mark. But thats about all he is. 172 games, 283 goals... not exactly the figures of an A-grade KPF

An A-grade KPF is someone who averages 3 goals per game over his career...

Fev managed it... Buddy is currently on 3.2 goals/game

Buddy wins matches off his own boot... Cloke doesnt. I would pay 1 mill a season for Buddy... Cloke is worth about half of that really.

So... how about you pull your head out of your arse and watch some football and do some research before opening your mouth in future. Then you wont get embarrassed when talking about 'A-grade' KPF.

PS: Jarryd Roughead's figures as a CHF playing in the same team as Buddy... 1.9 goals/game. I would even take Roughy for the money we are supposedly offering Cloke.

Don't let goal av determine who is an A grade CHF. He might not be better than some you mention but he is A grade - A grade does not mean Hall of Famer but you may be interested in knowing that Cloke's av is the same as our Team of the Century player Robert Walls

 

[Blue Flame]

Bullshit... averaging 1.6 goals per game over his career is an average tall forward. He is an A-grade contested mark. But thats about all he is. 172 games, 283 goals... not exactly the figures of an A-grade KPF

An A-grade KPF is someone who averages 3 goals per game over his career...

Fev managed it... Buddy is currently on 3.2 goals/game

Wayne Carey, 272 games, 727 goals (2.67 goals/game)
I think your sentiments are mostly right Dram, but remember, not all KPF play in the same positions. Buddy and Fev were both true FF.
Cloke's bonus is more what he offers in terms of marking and creating goals for other players.

Don't let goal av determine who is an A grade CHF. He might not be better than some you mention but he is A grade - A grade does not mean Hall of Famer but you may be interested in knowing that Cloke's av is the same as our Team of the Century player Robert Walls

This is true. In fact, I think from memory only one player in Carlton's Team of the Century averages more than 3 goals per game, and that is Harry Vallence. Sticks wasn't quite there from memory (2.97).

These figures though were figures I worked out about a decade ago, I could be very hazy on the details.

 

[The Coach]

Wayne Carey, 272 games, 727 goals (2.67 goals/game)
I think your sentiments are mostly right Dram, but remember, not all KPF play in the same positions. Buddy and Fev were both true FF.
Cloke's bonus is more what he offers in terms of marking and creating goals for other players.

This is true. In fact, I think from memory only one player in Carlton's Team of the Century averages more than 3 goals per game, and that is Harry Vallence. Sticks wasn't quite there from memory (2.97).

These figures though were figures I worked out about a decade ago, I could be very hazy on the details.

Of course it is bloody true - that is why I stated it

 

[Tanks_Alot]

Of course it is bloody true - that is why I stated it

As if you always state the truth

 

[The Coach]

If I tell you so and so kicked x gls or so and so played x games - I look it up before I type it.

 

[JustaBattler]

Cloke is a true CHF - not a FF - his value is his ability to take get out of goal marks turn and delvier a 60 meter fast kick to Waite/Casboult who then mark or put ball to eddie or walker or jeff to goal. Oh - Cloke can also kick a 60 meter goal - regularly. A lot of misunderstanding about Cloke's true value. We do not have a big HF crashing mark taking big kicker in the side of Clokes quality - the only team who has is Collingwood and Hawthorn.

 

[Dramoth]

And Levi was recruited to the club as a speculative full forward. We know he can roost the ball from the 50, but he needs to correct his ball drop... If this is the 5% improvement that some troll mentioned, then he should be a 50-60 goal/year FF for us next year.

 

[bluebrew]

Levi Is a blue Cloke is not ,we need to focus on what we have and build with it.That will build a far more secure dynasty,than simply chasing whatever star may be out of contract somewhere else.

 

[King of Ruin]

Cloke is a true CHF - not a FF - his value is his ability to take get out of goal marks turn and delvier a 60 meter fast kick to Waite/Casboult who then mark or put ball to eddie or walker or jeff to goal. Oh - Cloke can also kick a 60 meter goal - regularly. A lot of misunderstanding about Cloke's true value. We do not have a big HF crashing mark taking big kicker in the side of Clokes quality - the only team who has is Collingwood and Hawthorn.

Where is the Q love in this post

 

[The_Wookie]

Cloke is a true CHF - not a FF - his value is his ability to take get out of goal marks turn and delvier a 60 meter fast kick to Waite/Casboult who then mark or put ball to eddie or walker or jeff to goal. Oh - Cloke can also kick a 60 meter goal - regularly. A lot of misunderstanding about Cloke's true value. We do not have a big HF crashing mark taking big kicker in the side of Clokes quality - the only team who has is Collingwood and Hawthorn.

I seem to recall Hammer slamming one from outside 50 against GWS on the run.

 

[JustaBattler]

I seem to recall Hammer slamming one from outside 50 against GWS on the run.

He is more versatile then Warnock and these days arguably a better tap ruckman than Kreuzer- following the disaster of the ACL...fit and focussed on roles they can both excel at - Hampsn/Kreuzer are a very old school combination Tap Man and huge ultra mobile ruck rover with a brain...

anyway thats just my 'different view' ..

eg Kreuz would HAVE to be tagged and he would be able to take out oppositions best and biggest...Kennedy/Watson/Lewis/Thomson/ etc.. far easier than some of our smaller bodied mid shave been able to, now add Bell/Robinson in the mix - potent physicality and many choices and options for outside runners..

.I personally would prefer that Kreuz is our second ruckman and our best inside on baller - with Gibbs/Carrazzo/Bell/McLean/Robinson etc..working off both these giants.. it is the set up that has stood WC/Sydney very well..few teams could match it.

Interested in why this would be a bad idea.

 

[No1Suspect]

Cloke is a true CHF - not a FF - his value is his ability to take get out of goal marks turn and delvier a 60 meter fast kick to Waite/Casboult who then mark or put ball to eddie or walker or jeff to goal. Oh - Cloke can also kick a 60 meter goal - regularly. A lot of misunderstanding about Cloke's true value. We do not have a big HF crashing mark taking big kicker in the side of Clokes quality - the only team who has is Collingwood and Hawthorn.

We do but he is at the wrong end, maybe not such a pack crasher though... Watson to CHF then it is

 

[Dramoth]

We do but he is at the wrong end, maybe not such a pack crasher though... Watson to CHF then it is

we do have a pack crasher up forward... it's the guy who this thread is about.

Remember that he crashed a couple of packs and left a couple of bodies in his wake in the game against the dogs. He has also got the physical strength to ragdoll a second or third defender in a one on one situation.

Just sayin... we should keep him and put him in the square.

 

[TNBT]

we do have a pack crasher up forward... it's the guy who this thread is about.

Remember that he crashed a couple of packs and left a couple of bodies in his wake in the game against the dogs. He has also got the physical strength to ragdoll a second or third defender in a one on one situation.

Just sayin... we should keep him and put him in the square.

I agree completely. I am a Blues fan first and foremost, and because of that I will support anyone who pulls on a Navy Blue jumper. However, while Cloke is a gun, I'm not really into the idea of signing him and/or Lynch. When it comes to big forwards, we have Casboult, Mitchell and whichever of Hampson/Kreuzer isn't in the ruck. All of those guys are still quite young and should only get better, whilst also being cheaper than Cloke by a long way. I think it really does come down to what sort of future each person wants -- to sign Cloke and go all out to win a premiership in the next couple of years, or to add other lesser-rated pieces and let our youth develop and potentially be a contender for the next 5 to 10 years. Personally, I'm in the second group.

 

[Buzz/Sticks/bryce]

I agree completely. I am a Blues fan first and foremost, and because of that I will support anyone who pulls on a Navy Blue jumper. However, while Cloke is a gun, I'm not really into the idea of signing him and/or Lynch. When it comes to big forwards, we have Casboult, Mitchell and whichever of Hampson/Kreuzer isn't in the ruck. All of those guys are still quite young and should only get better, whilst also being cheaper than Cloke by a long way. I think it really does come down to what sort of future each person wants -- to sign Cloke and go all out to win a premiership in the next couple of years, or to add other lesser-rated pieces and let our youth develop and potentially be a contender for the next 5 to 10 years. Personally, I'm in the second group.

We're all Blues fans first and foremost. About 1/3rd of us want Cloke. About 1/3rd of us want Lynch and an extra $500k. About 1/3rd of us want to just develop what we have and ignore free agency. Interesting times. Personally - I'm in group one, I've watched GWS this year and have no hope at all for the 2016-20 period. Having read this forum for the last few months, I realise there are many different views however.

 

[TNBT]

Regardless of whether we agree about signing or not signing Cloke, we both agree that this is going to be an interesting off-season. Given that free-agency will happen for the first time, it's anyone's guess as to how aggressive or how passive we are when it comes to going after players and/or hanging onto our own guys. Given that we have a brand new coach in charge as well, the sky's the limit for what could potentially happen over the next month or so.