Like, learn, hate - Round 23

[Kingsfoil]

Liked: Demolishing the Giants, hitting form at the right time of the season.
Learnt: That playing in Geelong is apparently a reasonable excuse for losing teams, but regarding the final being played at the MCG, that good teams win regardless of the venue. It's got to be one or the other guys.
Hated: Seeing so may great players retire.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Liked: Demolishing the Giants, hitting form at the right time of the season.
Learnt: That playing in Geelong is apparently a reasonable excuse for losing teams, but regarding the final being played at the MCG, that good teams win regardless of the venue. It's got to be one or the other guys.
Hated: Seeing so may great players retire.

Not all teams lose at the litter box. One team at least has no problem playing there!

Agree that your mob has been disadvantaged by holding the Final at G.

 

[MWPP]

Loved- (Liked isn't strong enough)- My beloved eagles saying farewell to Subi in style by making the finals in the last few minutes of the season. The atmosphere at the game was electric.
Liked/Learned- The flag is Adelaide's for the taking . Have faith that they'll win their home finals. Just hope the lack of MCG experience doesn't cost them.
Disliked (Hated is too strong)- The retirement of one of my favourite opposition players in Riewoldt . Kennedy missing out on a rare Threepeat Coleman .

 

[radiojake]

Liked/Learned- The flag is Adelaide's for the taking . Have faith that they'll win their home finals. Just hope the lack of MCG experience doesn't cost them.

While Adelaide's finals record over past ten years is certainly a cause for concern, the MCG isn't really an issue

Undefeated there in 5 games since April 2016

Since 2014 Crows going at a 7-1-2 record at the 'G

 

[simmo97]

Learnt;
Port Adelaide had less wins over top 8 teams than Carlton,Collingwood,St Kilda and Western Bulldogs
Port Adelaide had same number of wins over top 8 teams as Fremantle and Gold Coast
Port Adelaide only had more wins over top 8 teams than North Melbourne and Brisbane.

 

[simmo97]

While Adelaide's finals record over past ten years is certainly a cause for concern, the MCG isn't really an issue

Undefeated there in 5 games since April 2016

Since 2014 Crows going at a 7-1-2 record at the 'G

Since 2015 Crows going at a 6-1-2 record at the 'G

 

[Football Tragic]

Learnt;
Port Adelaide had less wins over top 8 teams than Carlton,Collingwood,St Kilda and Western Bulldogs
Port Adelaide had same number of wins over top 8 teams as Fremantle and Gold Coast
Port Adelaide only had more wins over top 8 teams than North Melbourne and Brisbane.

Will be found out in the finals

 

[Carringbush2010]

Spare a thought for our Melbourne brothers and sisters. Be gentle.

Are you kidding? They'll be in finals next year - how about spare a thought for us after "that" decision yesterday

 

[Carringbush2010]

Learnt: We'll be bottom 4 next year

Hated: We'll be bottom 4 next year

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

C'mon Pie Fans, cheer up. Seems that you will be getting James Hird as an asst coach.

While Matty Knights may have been the optimum, if the Dons experience was needed, good luck with JH.

 

[Blues_Man]

It's not a feel good story, but we got the biggest punishment in VFL/AFL history. Carlton were crippled for a decade with a punishment less than ours. Just because we came out on the other side looking good doesn't mean that we got a light punishment. That's entirely because of our recruitment in tough times. We lost quality players, but made the most of our situation.

Punished by being gifted the number one draft pick ..so harsh

 

[carnthedons]

Punished by being gifted the number one draft pick ..so harsh

I thought the wisdom was we were bottom 4 before the bans anyway so really we would've had a pick in that 1-4 range last year with all our players.

 

[Chief]

It's not a feel good story, but we got the biggest punishment in VFL/AFL history. Carlton were crippled for a decade with a punishment less than ours. Just because we came out on the other side looking good doesn't mean that we got a light punishment. That's entirely because of our recruitment in tough times. We lost quality players, but made the most of our situation.

I believe that, taking into account all factors including inflation, no it wasn't.

The AFL were on the side of Essendon the whole way, from the early warning from Andy through to the fact you never got a team punishment from the AFL for PED use by multiple players.

The AFL set up a mickey mouse tribunal to find the club innocent. Do these tribunals usually use the entirely incorrect method of evaluating evidence? I can't see that they do. So either some very experienced legal minds all made the same fundamental mistake at the same time, or they knew on which side their bread was buttered.

You got a small bump down the ladder out of the finals, not a complete points wipe as should have happened.

You got extra allowances to field a team. Do clubs with big injury lists get that sort of treatment? No, they suck it up and play on.

You also got your full draft picks with the AFL's blessing, after a low finish based entirely on your club's dishonest behaviour.

Carlton was never supported by the AFL, and accepted the decision and got rid of Elliot. Maybe we should have fought it in the courts, but that's a different conversation. Perhaps stuff like the Judd deal was an attempt to right the punishment? Sure I can accept that, but too little too late.

In any case, I think you're wrong. Far from the biggest punishment ever, the AFL worked on your behalf at every turn. Had the AFL done the right thing, you'd be in the VFL for a few years scraping loose change from bins to pay your players. It would have been a terrible and unjust punishment of the supporters who were blameless for the actions of a greedy Hird and Evans et al, but it would have been a proper result based on the horrendously callous treatment of players and complete disregard for the rules of the game.

That's my rant for the day. Maybe this is ranging too far off topic now.

 

[JayJ20]

Punished by being gifted the number one draft pick ..so harsh

You guys were gifted priority picks as a direct result of being crippled by your scandal.

If anyone was gifted top end talent, it's you guys. Forget 2005? Our pick 4 was pushed back to pick 7 because Carlton, Hawthorn and Collingwood got priority picks on top of your regular picks. Josh Kennedy and Scott Pendlebury went 4 and 5 that year.

Let's also not forget that the 2007 wooden spooners in Richmond got pick 2 because your pick was pushed to pick number 1!

We didn't get gifted the number 1 pick. We finished last. We already had our draft penalties in 2013 and 2014. 2013 was a strong draft as well.

 

[JayJ20]

I believe that, taking into account all factors including inflation, no it wasn't.

The AFL were on the side of Essendon the whole way, from the early warning from Andy through to the fact you never got a team punishment from the AFL for PED use by multiple players.

The AFL set up a mickey mouse tribunal to find the club innocent. Do these tribunals usually use the entirely incorrect method of evaluating evidence? I can't see that they do. So either some very experienced legal minds all made the same fundamental mistake at the same time, or they knew on which side their bread was buttered.

You got a small bump down the ladder out of the finals, not a complete points wipe as should have happened.

You got extra allowances to field a team. Do clubs with big injury lists get that sort of treatment? No, they suck it up and play on.

You also got your full draft picks with the AFL's blessing, after a low finish based entirely on your club's dishonest behaviour.

Carlton was never supported by the AFL, and accepted the decision and got rid of Elliot. Maybe we should have fought it in the courts, but that's a different conversation. Perhaps stuff like the Judd deal was an attempt to right the punishment? Sure I can accept that, but too little too late.

In any case, I think you're wrong. Far from the biggest punishment ever, the AFL worked on your behalf at every turn. Had the AFL done the right thing, you'd be in the VFL for a few years scraping loose change from bins to pay your players. It would have been a terrible and unjust punishment of the supporters who were blameless for the actions of a greedy Hird and Evans et al, but it would have been a proper result based on the horrendously callous treatment of players and complete disregard for the rules of the game.

That's my rant for the day. Maybe this is ranging too far off topic now.

It is the biggest punishment in AFL/VFL history for the biggest scandal in AFL/VFL history. No going around that. The difference between Carlton and Essendon is our list shape at the time the scandal occurred and how we dealt with it in the preceding years.

Carlton were already heading down and Essendon were reaching their peak. Carlton were crippled for a decade whereas we're likely wiping off the debt by the end of next year if we have another strong year.

You say that the AFL never helped Carlton despite getting literally gifted priority picks to help you rebuild as much as possible.

We didn't get an extra pick. You guys did get extra picks. You guys also got handouts from the AFL. Essendon look set to record a 4 million dollar profit, not from handouts, but from bringing the club, players and supporters together.

We also recruited very well.

Had we have screwed the Merrett, Fantasia, Walla, Hartley, Merrett, Stewart, McKenna and Gleeson picks, none of which are top 25 picks, we wouldn't have been playing finals at the moment.

It's funny how Carlton supporters say that we were helped by the AFL and gifted draft picks when in reality, it is the other way around. It's just that we made the most of our situation and you guys didn't.

We got extra allowance to field a team of discards that got pumped pretty much every week. How is that a positive? Would you want those players on your list now? Us fielding a "competitive" side is more about TV rights, which affect every club, rather than looking after us.

 

[Chief]

It's funny how Carlton supporters say that we were helped by the AFL and gifted draft picks when in reality, it is the other way around.

LOL! You think you weren't helped by the AFL?

 

[radiojake]

Less draft sanctions than Adelaide re: Tippett

Joke

 

[carnthedons]

Less draft sanctions than Adelaide re: Tippett

Joke

Just better negotiators. Leads me to believe that we had some leverage over the AFL in discussions

 

[radiojake]

The AFL tried their hardest to sweep it under the rug

Anyway done with this convo - while i can see why Essendon fans are happy their team is in finals, it should not be considered a 'feel good story' in the wider sense

 

[SCRAY72]

Liked : Tigers in the top 4, mixing it with best and with a genuine chance.

Learnt : That Sam Newman is a coward for not sharing his view about Bob Murphy's involvement on GF Day a week earlier when Bevo was on the show, weak ****.

Hate : Sloane's untimely appendicitis problem, hope he can play a role in the finals.

 

[WilloTree]

Liked: Buds 10
Learned: What 'leave your cheese-boards out' means. (I was genuinely confused for a while). This is seriously funny.
Hated: Bye week. knee-jerk reaction to introduce it - now we're stuck with it.

 

[WilloTree]

Would you want those players on your list now?

James Kelly and Mat Dea remained on Bombers list for 2017. McDonald-Tipungwuti was elevated off the Rookie list to 'make up the numbers'.

So, the answer is...

yes.

What's clearly an injustice here is that Essendon were given access to players that 17 other clubs weren't. To make matters worse, the AFL decided that after these players were loaned to Essendon - the Bombers never had to pay back the loan.

Talk about a free hit.