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Weekend Wrap and "Liked, Learned, Hated" right here -- How did tipping go?
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Ickirus
Team Captain
Retire: Rocca (Already announced)
O'Bree: Been a good club man, but his time is up, compare him to the likes of Ablett, Bartel, Selwood, Ling, etc, and you can see why we struggle in the middle.
Delist: Bryan, Cook, Corrie, Stanley, Thoolen, Dyas. Just not up to it, need some fresh players. I'd delist L.Brown just so MM doesn't have the chance to play him for every game next year, but he won't get delisted.
Trade: Cox, Johnson (if any takers).
Players to be phased out next year:
Johnson: dont know what I find more stupid and annoying, that Johnson runs around our player who just took a mark and asks for a cheap handball only to use his terrrible kicking skills to turn it over, or our players actually handballing to him. Should be no where near our best 22.
Lockyer: time has caught up to him, far too slow, and rarely win's any one on ones anymore. Macaffer should take his spot.
Presti: One of my favourite players, but need a generational change, with N.Brown and Reid taking up key defensive posts.
Draft: A KPF- Cloke is a terrible kick, and doesn't use his size well enough, similarly I don't rate Dawes that highly as his overhead marking is poor and doesn't have a good burst of speed. Anthony in his second season kicked 50 goals playing on the oppposition's best key defender every week, struggled against the likes of Scarlett and Lake, but he has played 36 games, these opponents are experienced and elite defenders of the game and should beat him. His height is no issue, just needs to put on 5 or so kgs of muscle. Aaron Black sounds like a player that we need.
Speedy midfielder with good skills: people often say midfielders are dime a dozen, might be so but good mids are like gold, and we struggle for pace in the middle. Players with poor footskills should not be looked at. Should look also have a look at some mature age recruits.
O'Bree: Been a good club man, but his time is up, compare him to the likes of Ablett, Bartel, Selwood, Ling, etc, and you can see why we struggle in the middle.
Delist: Bryan, Cook, Corrie, Stanley, Thoolen, Dyas. Just not up to it, need some fresh players. I'd delist L.Brown just so MM doesn't have the chance to play him for every game next year, but he won't get delisted.
Trade: Cox, Johnson (if any takers).
Players to be phased out next year:
Johnson: dont know what I find more stupid and annoying, that Johnson runs around our player who just took a mark and asks for a cheap handball only to use his terrrible kicking skills to turn it over, or our players actually handballing to him. Should be no where near our best 22.
Lockyer: time has caught up to him, far too slow, and rarely win's any one on ones anymore. Macaffer should take his spot.
Presti: One of my favourite players, but need a generational change, with N.Brown and Reid taking up key defensive posts.
Draft: A KPF- Cloke is a terrible kick, and doesn't use his size well enough, similarly I don't rate Dawes that highly as his overhead marking is poor and doesn't have a good burst of speed. Anthony in his second season kicked 50 goals playing on the oppposition's best key defender every week, struggled against the likes of Scarlett and Lake, but he has played 36 games, these opponents are experienced and elite defenders of the game and should beat him. His height is no issue, just needs to put on 5 or so kgs of muscle. Aaron Black sounds like a player that we need.
Speedy midfielder with good skills: people often say midfielders are dime a dozen, might be so but good mids are like gold, and we struggle for pace in the middle. Players with poor footskills should not be looked at. Should look also have a look at some mature age recruits.
TheKITC
Cancelled
Spartan-Magpie; is that you Mike Sheehan? You seem to of completely rehashed his thoughts from today's HUN article...
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...gh-calls-on-list/story-e6frf9ox-1225777227718
First time posting on this board guys, as I was prompted to come on here and start a thread regarding that very article ^^ after being a bit shocked to read Mike's thoughts, but this seems to be the right thread for it.
He listed Leon Davis and Josh Fraser as 'Possible Trades' in the graphic as well as Presti, O'Bree, Lockyer, Brown and Clarke as 'Question Marks'. While is don't disagree with the O'Bree call, I thought listing Fraser and Davis as possible trades was really strange, as well as Lockyer and Presti who are 4 of your best players.
The knee jerk over Davis has been unbelievable; Great player that should surrrrely be kept.
Fraser is your best ruck in an area which is clearly not your strongest. He is one of your best players full stop and probably went close to being your captain. He can't be traded can he?
While Presti and Lockyer are aging, you'd think they would be right and don't really deserved to be questioned, even if it is over their age.
I just found the article to be quite baffling and while I, unlike others, do rate Mike as a decent journo, this article makes me see why people constantly pot him. Not one of his brightest pieces me thinks. Or am I off the mark?
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...gh-calls-on-list/story-e6frf9ox-1225777227718
First time posting on this board guys, as I was prompted to come on here and start a thread regarding that very article ^^ after being a bit shocked to read Mike's thoughts, but this seems to be the right thread for it.
He listed Leon Davis and Josh Fraser as 'Possible Trades' in the graphic as well as Presti, O'Bree, Lockyer, Brown and Clarke as 'Question Marks'. While is don't disagree with the O'Bree call, I thought listing Fraser and Davis as possible trades was really strange, as well as Lockyer and Presti who are 4 of your best players.
The knee jerk over Davis has been unbelievable; Great player that should surrrrely be kept.
Fraser is your best ruck in an area which is clearly not your strongest. He is one of your best players full stop and probably went close to being your captain. He can't be traded can he?
While Presti and Lockyer are aging, you'd think they would be right and don't really deserved to be questioned, even if it is over their age.
I just found the article to be quite baffling and while I, unlike others, do rate Mike as a decent journo, this article makes me see why people constantly pot him. Not one of his brightest pieces me thinks. Or am I off the mark?
but if we want to trade Davis ... this is the year.... he's been named on the AA, and this would certainly inflate his value...
bear in mind that we need to trade away quality in order to gain quality... we're not going to get anyone who's going to improve the team by trading Stanley, Cox, cook etc
if the right trade is on, i don't see why not
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my thoughts are my own..... mick as many of us collingwood supporters are stating what we perceive as weaknesses and or defiencies in the playing group..
and dont ever insult the spartan-magpie name again by mentioning mick sheehan in the same sentence as me or ill become a mod and red card you till carlton wins another flag (eternity)..
TheKITC
Cancelled
I think it's obvious I wasn't trolling. For you to be a mod I think you would need to put forward better posts then that however, as I think off topic Carlton bashing probably isn't getting you anywhere, particularly quoting someone who had clear intentions of being constructive.
I probably should of put in a
or 
to ward off a response such as yours on a foreign board. Noted for the future 
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There are enough lads in the VFL that have had their chance and should be moved on to give list space, as for the 22 that played on Sat my thoughts are:
Presti - Champ but his best games this year were against teams that played a deep FF and those teams are not finals contenders who are the ones we need to beat.
O'Bree - Still our best clearance player, he is not Selwood or Bartel, but neither is anyone else on our list. Was our best player in the second 1/4 comeback and certainly not the worst on the night. Will play a role if he stays on and delisting him is not the answer to a flag next year.
L Brown - meh, stay or go he is a handy utility.
Johnson - On the fringe but we need running players with bigger bodies to balance Beamer, sidebum, Wells, Dick etc - keep him another year.
Lockyer, Davis & Thomas - Crazy talk!
Presti - Champ but his best games this year were against teams that played a deep FF and those teams are not finals contenders who are the ones we need to beat.
O'Bree - Still our best clearance player, he is not Selwood or Bartel, but neither is anyone else on our list. Was our best player in the second 1/4 comeback and certainly not the worst on the night. Will play a role if he stays on and delisting him is not the answer to a flag next year.
L Brown - meh, stay or go he is a handy utility.
Johnson - On the fringe but we need running players with bigger bodies to balance Beamer, sidebum, Wells, Dick etc - keep him another year.
Lockyer, Davis & Thomas - Crazy talk!
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Did you type seniors when you meant footballers?
- Banned
- #60
If we are going to see any silverware we need to have players such as Dawes/Reid/N. Brown playing at AFL level getting experience.
IMO Presti/O'Bree and Tarkyn have to move on in order to make room.
Their bodies are clearly giving way, no doubting they all still have the qualities, but seeing Tarkyn and Presti struggling with speed this season, it just isn't fair on the team.
O'Bree is too hot and cold, always has been.
Unfortunately I don't think any of these grandads will move on, and thus hurting our chances of moving forwards.
A Nathan Buckley in charge would not be weak, and would make the right/tough decisions.
We need to show confidence in these kids who have the skills and bodies, but just not the experience.
A flag next year shouldn't be the main goal.
It should be to get a full season of AFL into our future that will bring us a flag.
Waste of a season 09, Dawes played 3 games, Reid played 1? and what happened to Brown was dissapointing.
Marty Clarke shouldn't be touched, he is still 21 ffs.
My wishes are: Rocca (already gone), O'bree, Tarkyn, Presti
But realisticly it will be something like:
Rocca, Bryan, Corrie, Rusling, Stanley
IMO Presti/O'Bree and Tarkyn have to move on in order to make room.
Their bodies are clearly giving way, no doubting they all still have the qualities, but seeing Tarkyn and Presti struggling with speed this season, it just isn't fair on the team.
O'Bree is too hot and cold, always has been.
Unfortunately I don't think any of these grandads will move on, and thus hurting our chances of moving forwards.
A Nathan Buckley in charge would not be weak, and would make the right/tough decisions.
We need to show confidence in these kids who have the skills and bodies, but just not the experience.
A flag next year shouldn't be the main goal.
It should be to get a full season of AFL into our future that will bring us a flag.
Waste of a season 09, Dawes played 3 games, Reid played 1? and what happened to Brown was dissapointing.
Marty Clarke shouldn't be touched, he is still 21 ffs.
My wishes are: Rocca (already gone), O'bree, Tarkyn, Presti
But realisticly it will be something like:
Rocca, Bryan, Corrie, Rusling, Stanley
- Banned
- #61
I know, but I'm going off what my eyes have shown me this season.
And as the season went on the oldies did less and less, because they are toooo old to play a season out.
We can't afford to be carrying 30+ players when the rest of the team are mostly 22-
They are all too slow in a game that is all about speed.
And as the season went on the oldies did less and less, because they are toooo old to play a season out.
We can't afford to be carrying 30+ players when the rest of the team are mostly 22-
They are all too slow in a game that is all about speed.
Has it occurred to you that perhaps the reason O'Bree got most possessions was that the Cats were quite happy with that outcome as they know he does little damage with the ball in his hands ?
forwardflanker
Cancelled
No it occured to me that Swan, Didak and Davis played shithouse and O'Bree could at least hold his head high
i agree with this
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A few things need to happen:
1. Trade/Delist - Thoolen, Stanley (should try for Gold Coast), Cook, Corrie and Cox (keep Bryan unless we trade for a ruck - need the back up). Rocca's retired so 5 open spots for draft.
2. Ben Reid, Steele Sidebottom, Brent Macaffer and Dayne Beams (and maybe John McCarthy and Nathan Brown) play every game when they are fit. This is the core of players that will take the club forward the most. They have tons of talent and a huge amount of potential.
2. We need to draft KP forward and ruck in this draft (or trade for Ruck if we delist Bryan)
3. Chris Dawes needs to be given an opportunity to play FF for an extended period which will make or break his career.
4. Brad Dick needs to put on weight - if he can't then he needs to be moved. He's not big enough to play finals.
5. Jarrod Blair gets promoted. The kid has shown enough at VFL level to suggest he can compete (and play well) against men.
6. Kris Pendlebury gets rookie listed (in Thoolens place - literally worst player ever listed on an AFL list) or if he's too old, tell him to register for draft and take him late.
7. Shane O'Bree, Simon Prestigiacomo, Leigh Brown and Tarkyn Lockyer (unlucky) will be gradually replaced by the names mentioned above.
8. Marty Clarke needs to be given another opportunity. Our team is pretty much always better when he plays.
9. Sean Rusling needs to be played forward - if not then trade/delist. He is a forward and a forward only.
10. Investigate trading a mid to late draft pick for Shane Tuck. Hard, uncomprimising, contested ball winner who would never wilt in a finals cauldron. At 27 he's still got three good years - this is only if we consider ourselves genuine contenders. Could be an elite tagger which all top line clubs have (we had Karl Stienfort in 02 and 03)
Concerns:
Cloke - Have no idea what to do with him now. Would love to trade him but would need a big mobile CHF in return which is essentially what he brings. He is mentally weak (confidence player) and gets out of position too often. For someone with his work rate, this should not happen. Was at his best when kicking goals (even when it came with equal or more behinds - remember he nearly single handedly won us the prelim game against Geelong with 4 goals a few years back - WTF has happened to him!?!)
Medhurst - AA last year and was playing well until major ankle injury. Having spoken with relatives/friends on Saturday, apparently its still f^cked. Not sure if he can get back to the player he was in 08. We need him too if we are to be considered "genuine contenders" in the next few years. His importance can not be understated.
Leon - Nothing required to be said here. I hope like hell he was carrying an injury at the end of the year. Not good enough. Trade? Is he have currency anymore?
Fraser - He's clearly not as good a tap ruckman as Wood. He might win more ball around the ground (when fit) but Wood is also a much better contested mark. I see Wood becoming number one ruck next year (or should be) so I don't know what to do with Fraser. Play forward? - not good contested mark though? Trade? Need a ruck in return....
We have a stack of good talent coming through the VFL with Rounds (Geelong were all over him before we took him one pick before them), Blight and Blair. Not to mention if Rusling can line up in at FF/FP alongside Anthony and/or Dawes. Suddenly we look a lot more dangerous in the air up forward which along with our midfield has been a major weakness towards the end of the year. Dayne Beams, Wellingham and Steele will add more muscle and strength over the off-season which will see our midfield improve.
Scott Pendlebury is our most important player against good teams - FULL F^CKING STOP.
1. Trade/Delist - Thoolen, Stanley (should try for Gold Coast), Cook, Corrie and Cox (keep Bryan unless we trade for a ruck - need the back up). Rocca's retired so 5 open spots for draft.
2. Ben Reid, Steele Sidebottom, Brent Macaffer and Dayne Beams (and maybe John McCarthy and Nathan Brown) play every game when they are fit. This is the core of players that will take the club forward the most. They have tons of talent and a huge amount of potential.
2. We need to draft KP forward and ruck in this draft (or trade for Ruck if we delist Bryan)
3. Chris Dawes needs to be given an opportunity to play FF for an extended period which will make or break his career.
4. Brad Dick needs to put on weight - if he can't then he needs to be moved. He's not big enough to play finals.
5. Jarrod Blair gets promoted. The kid has shown enough at VFL level to suggest he can compete (and play well) against men.
6. Kris Pendlebury gets rookie listed (in Thoolens place - literally worst player ever listed on an AFL list) or if he's too old, tell him to register for draft and take him late.
7. Shane O'Bree, Simon Prestigiacomo, Leigh Brown and Tarkyn Lockyer (unlucky) will be gradually replaced by the names mentioned above.
8. Marty Clarke needs to be given another opportunity. Our team is pretty much always better when he plays.
9. Sean Rusling needs to be played forward - if not then trade/delist. He is a forward and a forward only.
10. Investigate trading a mid to late draft pick for Shane Tuck. Hard, uncomprimising, contested ball winner who would never wilt in a finals cauldron. At 27 he's still got three good years - this is only if we consider ourselves genuine contenders. Could be an elite tagger which all top line clubs have (we had Karl Stienfort in 02 and 03)
Concerns:
Cloke - Have no idea what to do with him now. Would love to trade him but would need a big mobile CHF in return which is essentially what he brings. He is mentally weak (confidence player) and gets out of position too often. For someone with his work rate, this should not happen. Was at his best when kicking goals (even when it came with equal or more behinds - remember he nearly single handedly won us the prelim game against Geelong with 4 goals a few years back - WTF has happened to him!?!)
Medhurst - AA last year and was playing well until major ankle injury. Having spoken with relatives/friends on Saturday, apparently its still f^cked. Not sure if he can get back to the player he was in 08. We need him too if we are to be considered "genuine contenders" in the next few years. His importance can not be understated.
Leon - Nothing required to be said here. I hope like hell he was carrying an injury at the end of the year. Not good enough. Trade? Is he have currency anymore?
Fraser - He's clearly not as good a tap ruckman as Wood. He might win more ball around the ground (when fit) but Wood is also a much better contested mark. I see Wood becoming number one ruck next year (or should be) so I don't know what to do with Fraser. Play forward? - not good contested mark though? Trade? Need a ruck in return....
We have a stack of good talent coming through the VFL with Rounds (Geelong were all over him before we took him one pick before them), Blight and Blair. Not to mention if Rusling can line up in at FF/FP alongside Anthony and/or Dawes. Suddenly we look a lot more dangerous in the air up forward which along with our midfield has been a major weakness towards the end of the year. Dayne Beams, Wellingham and Steele will add more muscle and strength over the off-season which will see our midfield improve.
Scott Pendlebury is our most important player against good teams - FULL F^CKING STOP.
eddies army
Senior List
yeah i agree with that although i think people are a little fast to get rid of cox, i think he shows plenty maybe lacks the attitude not sure????
people can forget about trading rusling, seriously what do you think wed get for him??? people need to wake up, this will be his last go at it if we were going to delist him hed have gone weeks ago so we could promote a rookie.
i think its sad to say but geeze it seems we have a lot of hinch men amongst us.....
