List fine-tuning

[jourgo]

Hi all.

I wanted to get your input on this. With talk starting towards trades & drafts at the end of the season, assessments will need to be made about our list and what we need in the short & long term.

For myself, I'm of the opinion that our list doesn't need any major reconstruction, just a little fine-tuning. Looking at our list and the optimum 22 we can put on the park over the next couple of years, I don't think we need to go head-hunting (having said that, if Daniel Wells could be enticed home at the end of next season I wouldn't say no!)

However, having quality bit-part players around is essential. We have some fat on out list that can be trimmed - players that have been given a chance and haven't been able to take the next step. These are the ones that need to be looked at, at season's end.

So, who can we afford to lose at the end of this season?

Ashley McIntosh: a certainty to retire at the end of this year.
Trent Carroll: I think we've given hime every chance to get it right. Just doesn't have it where it counts.
Callum Chambers: hasn't played a game all season and is a bit soft in any case. A Victorian, he'll probably welcome the chance to go home.
Kane Munro: has gotta go. Too skinny, no poise, makes bad decisions.
David Sierakowski: will retire.
Troy Wilson: has had his day. Still has good WAFL years in front of him.

 

[carlyp]

I think as far as KPP upforward we have enough talent (Gaspar, mcdougal, Staker, Johnson etc) and stock on our list but Im not so sure about down back. We have some good HB Flanker rebounding types in Hunter, Wirrpunda and Collica. I think what were missing is some KPP backmen. Im not sure whether Glass is the answer and Im definately sure that Carrol is not the answer either. Im not a fan of Quentin Lynch down back and I think Mcdougal and Staker although they COULD go down back, after watching both guys play Id prefer them up forward. But if Gaspar can get fit and start playing one of either Mcdougal or Staker could go down back if needed. However I think we should prepare for a life without gaspar as he does seem very injury ridden (I know I borrowed that idea from someone else on BF) IMO the only real thing we have to do with regard to our list is recruit one or maybe two tall backman to replace Milli. Although we must be wary that we dont fall in the trap of Judges fixit men type player. John Hay would be a good asset to our side and a good WA boy. Would he like to come back? Is there any Big KP backmen who want to come to WA or are from WA?
All in all our list is in preety good shape.

 

[Mead]

Whenever this question is asked, it comes down to the same old furphys- we need
a.) key defenders
b.) key forwards
c.) quality tagger.
in that order.

Now barring absolute deal/steal/sale of the century trades, I don't think we're going to be doing much during trading week. Historically we never have, always preferring to develop from within. The only area where we'd be prepared to make trades would be from our ruck stocks and maybe draft picks. If Cox plus our first rounder could net a solid young tall defender, that'd be worth doing.

The improvement we need will have to come from this list. I'm about sold on the McDougall/Haynes combo as our future CHF/FF structure. Both have improved enormously this year and are still a year or so away from their best. They are worth persevering with. If we want to go taller, there's always the option of taking on of our raw players, (most likely Hansen) and turning him into a full forward. That may or may not work, but I think there's a lot to be confident about regarding Doogs and Haynes- both have proven they can produce at AFL level.

At the other end of the ground, its a bit more tricky. Glass is showing flashes of brilliance and a lot of crapness at FB. Time will tell whether he's the answer, but it'd be good to have a plan B.
Gaspar's name is often thrown around as a possible key defender, but the reality is he's ridiculously injury prone, and also unproven at that end of the ground. His undeniable talent means that he is probably worth a punt, but its still up in the air as to whether he'll ever come good.
Lynch is perhaps the other option. There's absolutely no question about him having the body, the guy is a gorilla in the most literal sense of the word. The problem is he doesn't seem too quick on his feet, which is almost a death knell in modern footy- if he can improve that aspect of his game through drills, or has a smart enough footy brain to compensate, he could be a very intimidating FB indeed.

Meanwhile, I am getting more and more excited about Staker. Did anyone notice he spent about a quarter playing on the wing last week? His hands, speed and agility are all absolutely amazing for a 195cm youngster who is still growing- he ****s all over those piddling little 190cm wingers
He looks a pretty good option for a key defence option, but is probably still about 2 very hard preseasons away from having the body to hold down a key position- if he can earn his stripes on the flanks in the meantime, he could be a very impressive player indeed.

 

[carlyp]

Originally posted by Mead
Meanwhile, I am getting more and more excited about Staker. Did anyone notice he spent about a quarter playing on the wing last week? His hands, speed and agility are all absolutely amazing for a 195cm youngster who is still growing- he ****s all over those piddling little 190cm wingers
He looks a pretty good option for a key defence option, but is probably still about 2 very hard preseasons away from having the body to hold down a key position- if he can earn his stripes on the flanks in the meantime, he could be a very impressive player indeed.

I did notice him Mead. Me thinks that he could do with a month with my grandmother to fatten him up a little. Imagine though, till he gets strong enough to play KPP he can play a simmilar role to embley, most clubs cant match up on Embley when he plays on the wing but how the hell could they match up on two really overly tall, quick, strong wingers?? MWah ha ha ha ha!!! Wouldnt it be great!!! :d:d

 

[jourgo]

Staker

Staker has the definite air of the Mitchell White's about him - which is exciting. He needs to put a bit of weight on, but not so much that locks him into being a key position player. At the moment he could be either, or both. I see him as a half-forward flanker in the White or Hird mold - fleet-of-foot, creative, clever, and can play CHF when the game suits.

 

[carlyp]

Re: Staker

Originally posted by jourgo
Staker has the definite air of the Mitchell White's about him - which is exciting. He needs to put a bit of weight on, but not so much that locks him into being a key position player. At the moment he could be either, or both. I see him as a half-forward flanker in the White or Hird mold - fleet-of-foot, creative, clever, and can play CHF when the game suits.

Whereever he plays, it doesnt matter, he's going to be great for us. But with that height (195cm) youd have to use him as a KPP wouldnt you??

 

[larrikin]

Originally posted by Mead
Whenever this question is asked, it comes down to the same old furphys- we need
a.) key defenders
b.) key forwards
c.) quality tagger.
in that order.

Now barring absolute deal/steal/sale of the century trades, I don't think we're going to be doing much during trading week. Historically we never have, always preferring to develop from within. The only area where we'd be prepared to make trades would be from our ruck stocks and maybe draft picks. If Cox plus our first rounder could net a solid young tall defender, that'd be worth doing.

Agreed. We are virtually always quiet in trade week, with the exception of one year under Judge, so trades will have to be worth while and most likely invove Sangropers. Cox is worth more to others than us, and his tradability has been improved by Gardiner's injury. He won't be traded for nothing though, and we don't need more midfielder/flanker types. It would have to be a YOUNG half decent kpp, with draftpicks thrown in either way.

Originally posted by Mead

The improvement we need will have to come from this list. I'm about sold on the McDougall/Haynes combo as our future CHF/FF structure. Both have improved enormously this year and are still a year or so away from their best.

Yep, leave them there and don't mess with that combo, with the exception of throwing Gardiner down in the square when resting from ruck duties (which would often see McDougall go onto the ball, pushing Haynes a bit further out from the goal square)

Originally posted by Mead
At the other end of the ground, its a bit more tricky. Glass is showing flashes of brilliance and a lot of crapness at FB.

Gold

Originally posted by Mead

Gaspar's name is often thrown around as a possible key defender, but the reality is he's ridiculously injury prone, and also unproven at that end of the ground. His undeniable talent means that he is probably worth a punt, but its still up in the air as to whether he'll ever come good.

His injury run hasn't been much different to McDougall, he's just a little older. Gaspar is one of the players I hang my hopes on for future success. He will get over his injuries, and I think is the logical answer at CHB.

 

[carlyp]

Originally posted by larrikin
His injury run hasn't been much different to McDougall, he's just a little older. Gaspar is one of the players I hang my hopes on for future success. He will get over his injuries, and I think is the logical answer at CHB.

With Staker and Mcdougal around we can afford to play Gaspar down back if its needed yeah. If these big young guys that we have keep improving....lookout, every other club is in trouble. We will have it all: KPP, midfielders galore, ruckmen and taggers.

 

[jourgo]

.

I wouldn't look to turn Staker into a KPP just for sake of it. I mean if you play him at CHF, you do so at the expense of McDougall who is probably a better option, he'd be wasted at FF, he'd be too multi-dimensional to play there, and he doesn't strike me as a defender.

Like I said, I see him as a half-forward flanker. Think about it - taller than just about anybody who'd play on him, mobile enough that he wont be run-off too easily, and with that extra height he could pinch-hit at centre half forward when the time suits.

Time will tell though - speculation on what he could be is all a bit premature at this stage.

 

[carlyp]

Re: .

Originally posted by jourgo

Like I said, I see him as a half-forward flanker. Think about it - taller than just about anybody who'd play on him, mobile enough that he wont be run-off too easily, and with that extra height he could pinch-hit at centre half forward when the time suits.

Hmmm.....your slowly selling me. How many teams have more than say two or three tall defensive options??? It could be something we could exploit in other clubs!

 

[Voice of Reason]

Re: .

Originally posted by jourgo
I wouldn't look to turn Staker into a KPP just for sake of it. I mean if you play him at CHF, you do so at the expense of McDougall who is probably a better option, he'd be wasted at FF, he'd be too multi-dimensional to play there, and he doesn't strike me as a defender.

Like I said, I see him as a half-forward flanker. Think about it - taller than just about anybody who'd play on him, mobile enough that he wont be run-off too easily, and with that extra height he could pinch-hit at centre half forward when the time suits.

Time will tell though - speculation on what he could be is all a bit premature at this stage.

I agree with you about Staker and I think it rather depends on how he develops physically over the next 2 years.

I agreed with your original comments except I'm a reasonable fan of Munro as a small player who can do a job in various positions, but he is skinny. Useful squad player though.

I'm only prepared to trade Cox if a really good deal comes up. As in really really good.

 

[Mead]

Re: .

Originally posted by jourgo
I wouldn't look to turn Staker into a KPP just for sake of it. I mean if you play him at CHF, you do so at the expense of McDougall who is probably a better option, he'd be wasted at FF, he'd be too multi-dimensional to play there, and he doesn't strike me as a defender.

Like I said, I see him as a half-forward flanker. Think about it - taller than just about anybody who'd play on him, mobile enough that he wont be run-off too easily, and with that extra height he could pinch-hit at centre half forward when the time suits.

Time will tell though - speculation on what he could be is all a bit premature at this stage.

It certainly is early days regarding Staker, but from memory he was a key defender in his ACT Rams days before he was drafted?

In the short term, Staker will most likely be a flanker because he's still got that Jenny Craigesque physique about him- his speed and agility mean he is very difficult to match up on.

However, if thats all he is for his career, we're underselling Staker if he never gets a gig at CHB or something like that. A couple of years of hard work should bulk him up, and then suddenly you have a very tall key position player with the agility of a midfielder. So I reckon, this next year or so, he'll be a decent flanker for as long as his form holds, but long term, it'd be an almost criminal waste to keep him there- Probably about half our list could play on the flanks if need be, but 195cm KPP prospects with his speed and agility simply do not show up every day.

 

[carlyp]

Re: Re: .

Originally posted by Mead
It certainly is early days regarding Staker, but from memory he was a key defender in his days before he was drafted?

In the short term, Staker will most likely be a flanker because he's still got that Jenny Craigesque physique about him- his speed and agility mean he is very difficult to match up on.

However, if thats all he is for his career, we're underselling Staker if he never gets a gig at CHB or something like that. A couple of years of hard work should bulk him up, and then suddenly you have a very tall key position player with the agility of a midfielder. So I reckon, this next year or so, he'll be a decent flanker for as long as his form holds, but long term, it'd be an almost criminal waste to keep him there- 195cm blokes with his speed and agility simply do not show up every day.

Exactly, he's too bigger talent to miss out on as a KPP!

 

[Jabber]

Key defender is the only trade I'd consider.

Jonathon Hay, Alistair Nicholson & Robert Haddrill (a little short perhaps) are the obvious choices as they are WA boys, but as far as I know Haddrill was the only one coming out of contract.

One that looks tasty to me is Matt Maguire (St.Kilda, 19, 190cm 89kg) - still uncontracted for next season AFAIK

Has played 25 games and is racking up some respectable numbers in defence - has even been called to play in the ruck on occaision with some success considering his size. I'm sure St. Kilda would love to get their hands on Cox ( so to speak )

 

[carlyp]

Originally posted by Jabber
One that looks tasty to me is Matt Maguire (St.Kilda, 19, 190cm 89kg) - still uncontracted for next season AFAIK

Has played 25 games and is racking up some respectable numbers in defence - has even been called to play in the ruck on occaision with some success considering his size. I'm sure St. Kilda would love to get their hands on Cox ( so to speak )

Hmmm could be a good deal Cox for Maguire. We have Seaby and Macdougal as backup ruckmen dont we. Could be a goer.

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

Re: Re: .

Originally posted by Mead
It certainly is early days regarding Staker, but from memory he was a key defender in his ACT Rams days before he was drafted?

In the short term, Staker will most likely be a flanker because he's still got that Jenny Craigesque physique about him- his speed and agility mean he is very difficult to match up on.

From what I saw of Staker on Sunday, he has the work ethic and abilities to be a CHB/FB. Runs hard, knows how to use his body, and doesn't shy away from the one percenters.

 

[llosis]

Originally posted by carlyp
Hmmm could be a good deal Cox for Maguire. We have Seaby and Macdougal as backup ruckmen dont we. Could be a goer.

We would be mad to trade Cox for Maguire! Cox is in our best 22 albeit behind Gardiner. Maybe Cox for Hay (more than unlikely) but let's not undersell our list.

 

[carlyp]

Originally posted by llosis
We would be mad to trade Cox for Maguire! Cox is in our best 22 albeit behind Gardiner. Maybe Cox for Hay (more than unlikely) but let's not undersell our list.

I dunno apparently Maguire is the goods. But I understand what you mean, but Id still have to seriously think about it. We NEED some KPP backmen!

 

[larrikin]

Originally posted by carlyp
Hmmm could be a good deal Cox for Maguire. We have Seaby and Macdougal as backup ruckmen dont we. Could be a goer.

Ummmmmm.....

how about no!

You don't give a proven ruckman to speculate on any kind of player, kpp or not.

 

[carlyp]

Originally posted by larrikin
Ummmmmm.....

how about no!

You don't give a proven ruckman to speculate on any kind of player, kpp or not.

Well maybe not Cox, but we have a few ruckmen on our lists dont we? How about giving up one of them for Maguire. Maybe Seaby?

 

[llosis]

Originally posted by carlyp
I dunno apparently Maguire is the goods. But I understand what you mean, but Id still have to seriously think about it. We NEED some KPP backmen!

Admittedly I haven't seen alot of him but he didn't excite me on Sunday. Will give Saints Carroll for him though.

 

[sabre_ac]

Fremantle and Eagles can help eachother out allot here.
We both have an over supply of what the other teams is in need of.
Fremantle has the key position players and needs the midfielders
Eagles have the midfielders and need the Key Position players.

I have been shot over at the freo board for suggesting this, but here I go again.
Haddrill is all quality but like I said is third in line behind Polak,McPharlin and Woods down back.
His stocks are up and he is a young guy, so we would ask a high price for him.
Kerr is really the only player I would take, hes had a down year and I think you can spare him.
Draft picks may be thrown in to sweeten the deal.

 

[carlyp]

Originally posted by sabre_ac
Fremantle and Eagles can help eachother out allot here.
We both have an over supply of what the other teams is in need of.
Fremantle has the key position players and needs the midfielders
Eagles have the midfielders and need the Key Position players.

I have been shot over at the freo board for suggesting this, but here I go again.
Haddrill is all quality but like I said is third in line behind Polak,McPharlin and Woods down back.
His stocks are up and he is a young guy, so we would ask a high price for him.
Kerr is really the only player I would take, hes had a down year and I think you can spare him.
Draft picks may be thrown in to sweeten the deal.

I cant see Dan Kerr leaving the club.

 

[carlyp]

Originally posted by llosis
Admittedly I haven't seen alot of him but he didn't excite me on Sunday. Will give Saints Carroll for him though.

Now THAT would be a great deal.

 

[larrikin]

Originally posted by sabre_ac
Fremantle and Eagles can help eachother out allot here.
We both have an over supply of what the other teams is in need of.
Fremantle has the key position players and needs the midfielders
Eagles have the midfielders and need the Key Position players.

I have been shot over at the freo board for suggesting this, but here I go again.
Haddrill is all quality but like I said is third in line behind Polak,McPharlin and Woods down back.
His stocks are up and he is a young guy, so we would ask a high price for him.
Kerr is really the only player I would take, hes had a down year and I think you can spare him.
Draft picks may be thrown in to sweeten the deal.

Haddril for Kerr

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Come back to the table with McPharlin or Polak and we'll talk.