List Mgmt. List management discussion (existing players)

[McCrann]

Ok, we're nearly half-way through the season, and barring a miracle, there is little chance of finals this year for the boys. So we need to start looking to the future. Who of our current stalwarts should retire, or be retired at season's end?

Jason Blake (2000-2013) - 215 Games.

Adam Schneider (2008-2013) - 98 Games at the Saints, 196 Games all up. Should get 2 more games for F/S and possibly another 2 after that. Where is he at though?

Justin Koschitzke (2001-2013) - 197 Games. Should get 3 more games even though some of you don't buy that. The performance of Hickey on the weekend against the Bulldogs showed me he's not ready to play every week until the end of the year.

Stephen Milne (2001-2013) - 266 Games. Not sure how many more games for Milney, but he's looked off the pace this year. Should get a farewell game at some stage. Maybe against Hawthorn in Round 20. Our only home game against another Melbourne team after Round 13.

Lenny Hayes (1999-2013) - 269 Games. Also not sure how many more games for Lenny. But can he regain form and fitness this year? Has to be a huge question mark, if he can do that maybe he merits another year. Time will tell.

I would advocate sending all these players off against Hawthorn in Round 20 actually. Should help sell tickets to the game, a game we will not be expected to compete in and may give us a very competitive performance.

 

[McCrann]

Where is Adam Schneider at? The guy has been a darn good player for us and is at the moment stranded on 98 games for St. Kilda and 196 games all up.

I see he has a hamstring injury for another 2-3 weeks. Well, I at least hope he gets back in for the handful of games he needs. What do others think?

 

[The Punter]

He won't be an AFL footballer in 2014. Hopefully we get another few games out of him.

 

[The Punter]

I would think Blake, Schneider and Koschitzke are certainties to retire, and Milne would be very close. I am reluctant to put Hayes in this group as he's been amazing, but it wouldn't surprise me if he pulls the pin.

Sam Fisher is also one who may call it a day.

If all six retire, then only one or two more will probably be delisted.

 

[The Enemy Within]

Blake -Yes
Schneider-Yes
Milne-Indicated he wants to go on
Koss-Yes and play as a development coach in the 2's
Hayes- No 1 more year left in him great role model

I would also add
Fisher is showing signs he might struggle next year

 

[The Enemy Within]

All over for him

 

[SAINTKILDA]

Blakey, Kosi, Milne and Schneids if he cant get his body right to retire. Im hoping we can get Kosi and Schneids to 200 games and Id keep Lenny for another year to teach the boys all about toughness

 

[McCrann]

Ok, so I've had a look at the fixture list. These are our remaining home games against local Victorian teams.

Round 13
St. Kilda v Melbourne (MCG) - Saturday June 22
(This game could well be about Melbourne's new coach, or interim coach, and their first hit-out)

Round 20
St. Kilda v Hawthorn (Etihad) - Friday August 9
(Last chance to farewell our departing heroes in front of a decent crowd and atmosphere?)


So - we've only got 2 more home games against Victorian teams.

It obviously sticks out at me, but surely we have to make the Round 20 game a farewell game for whoever is retiring this year, or will be delisted.

Who might that be?

Lenny Hayes (269 games)
Justin Koschitzke (197 games)
Jason Blake (215 games)
Adam Schneider (98 games for St. Kilda)
Stephen Milne (266 games)

We can "play the kids" for many other weeks, including the last 3 rounds after this, but surely it stands out that if we are to send our champions off properly this is the game to do it.

• Will fire up the boys to put in a good performance.
• Will increase the ticket sales and crowd to help boost the club coffers.
• It's a Friday night game, most likely our last of the year, so will help gear the club up for a better season in 2014.

What do people think, do you think we need to make a decision on who's going to be on the list in 2014 prior to this game and make sure that we send the players off in style in this game on the big stage?
If we did this right I'd give us a big chance of an upset in this game given a 100% effort from the team and I'm sure we could jump Hawthorn and take them.

 

[BrianSpeaking]

I would tip out the Rat, Blake, Kosi and Schneider, keep Hayes for one more season and hope he makes it to 300.

 

[Barrels]

Blake -Yes
Schneider-Yes
Milne-Indicated he wants to go on
Koss-Yes and play as a development coach in the 2's
Hayes- No 1 more year left in him great role model

I would also add
Fisher is showing signs he might struggle next year

Milney - at this stage, gone, but we said the same last year
Lenny - I will cry like a baby, but time waits for no man, even champions
Kosi - done
JB - done
Schneids - I think he'll call it. The body is telling him so
Chips - gone; mentally at least if not physically. Maybe he'll prove me wrong

Then;
Dal - to GWS for a high pick? Would we consider it? Time will tell
Maister - worth keeping him? Not for me
Ray - seemingly not in SW's preferred 22.
Jones - love his endeavour, but Lenny's looming retirement might be his only saviour
Ledger - cant get a guernsey
TDL - was it a mistake?
Milera - might pull himself. Rumours last year of his missus wanting to go home
Simpkin - born in the wrong generation. May partially replace Chips, otherwise dicey
Curren (r) - a 2s B&F couldn't get him a game. May delist himself
Staley (r) - upgraded or gone
Shenton (r) - upgraded or gone
Minchington (r) - upgraded or gone
Ferguson (r) - the most likely to be kept maybe...?

All in all, not a greatly glowing assessment of our list.

The locks next year (at this stage, and without factoring in drafting etc.) could only be:

FB: Wright // ???? // Roberton
HB: Geary // Stanley // ????
CR: Newnes // Ross // Montagna
RK: McEvoy // Steven // ????
HF: ???? // Riewoldt // ????
FF: ???? // ???? // ?????

Dempster, Armo, Simpkin and Saad all well down on their contributions of last year - for all sorts of reasons
Gwilt still a bit of a nowhere man for me - neither tall enough for KPD or fast enough for the little blokes - despite his previous good form
Lee has had injury issues, as has Siposs, but show promise
Not sure why Dunell was upgraded if he's not going to get a gig
Pierce, Lever, White and Markworth yet to feature
Gilbert has to come back from a bad knee - Roberton preferred IMO
Saunders, Webster, Murdoch, Hickey all get partial credits but still need to prove themselves.
No clear strong contenders for the unstated KP
Forward line a mess of epic proportions

Grim stuff.

Bring on my boys Boyd and Sully!!! Or at least Mitch Brown

 

[Armitage2Riewoldt]

The club has said they want to take time in retiring off our stalwarts. I can hardly see all of the players mentioned in the OP retiring this year.

Blake, Kosi and Schneids for mine.

Lenny and Milne one more year hopefully as they deserve to hit the 300 like few others that have played for this club.

 

[Manimal_Dunstan]

Blake, Kosi, Schneids retire, Hayes big possibility with him saying if we don't look like making finals he'll retire, Milne 50/50.

 

[Plugger35]

I'd still like to see Hayes and Fisher play on even though their form has dropped off their leadership and experience is still invaluable in the positions they play.

Can't see Schneider playing on with his injury problems while Kosi, Blake and Milne look to be done. Milney might try to play on next year but I don't think his form warrants it and we have guys like Saad and Milera who can fill his role.

 

[Half Back Pocket]

Agree Plug,

Blake, Kosi, Milne are done.
Lenny is entirely his call. Schnides is a 50/50 based on his body.

Fish is the interesting one IMO. I think he'll request a trade this year (a la Lake to Hawthorn). Maybe the GWS offer (and acceptance by the club) has put paid to any commitment he had? He certainly doesn't look like the Fish of 2 years ago.

 

[McCrann]

The club has said they want to take time in retiring off our stalwarts. I can hardly see all of the players mentioned in the OP retiring this year.

Blake, Kosi and Schneids for mine.

Lenny and Milne one more year hopefully as they deserve to hit the 300 like few others that have played for this club.

I don't think you can carry a player who isn't performing for a whole year. That is an awful lot of games to gift players. If they prove themselves worthy in the back-half of the year, by all means, but I can't say either have of yet. Milney especially dicey.

It's a lot different to giving a long-serving club stalwart 2 or 3 or 4 games to get a milestone than a whole season (15-20 games - no guarantee they'll even be right to play for that many games!)

What I can say is - we should be ultra, ultra agressive in trading period. Frawley, Watts, Gumbleton, Mitch Brown, anyone else who is available - we should be going after all of these guys and more because we will surely have a heap of cap space. A Heap!)

 

[Manimal_Dunstan]

Agree Plug,

Blake, Kosi, Milne are done.
Lenny is entirely his call. Schnides is a 50/50 based on his body.

Fish is the interesting one IMO. I think he'll request a trade this year (a la Lake to Hawthorn). Maybe the GWS offer (and acceptance by the club) has put paid to any commitment he had? He certainly doesn't look like the Fish of 2 years ago.

Sam Fisher didn't have a full pre-season, Think he had the same foot injury as Alex Fasolo currently has. He hasn't been that bad IMO last few weeks i thought he has looked better then what he did earlier in the year.

 

[tbarker]

Milney - at this stage, gone, but we said the same last year
Lenny - I will cry like a baby, but time waits for no man, even champions
Kosi - done
JB - done
Schneids - I think he'll call it. The body is telling him so
Chips - gone; mentally at least if not physically. Maybe he'll prove me wrong

Then;
Dal - to GWS for a high pick? Would we consider it? Time will tell
Maister - worth keeping him? Not for me
Ray - seemingly not in SW's preferred 22.
Jones - love his endeavour, but Lenny's looming retirement might be his only saviour
Ledger - cant get a guernsey
TDL - was it a mistake?
Milera - might pull himself. Rumours last year of his missus wanting to go home
Simpkin - born in the wrong generation. May partially replace Chips, otherwise dicey
Curren (r) - a 2s B&F couldn't get him a game. May delist himself
Staley (r) - upgraded or gone
Shenton (r) - upgraded or gone
Minchington (r) - upgraded or gone
Ferguson (r) - the most likely to be kept maybe...?

All in all, not a greatly glowing assessment of our list.

The locks next year (at this stage, and without factoring in drafting etc.) could only be:

FB: Wright // ???? // Roberton
HB: Geary // Stanley // ????
CR: Newnes // Ross // Montagna
RK: McEvoy // Steven // ????
HF: ???? // Riewoldt // ????
FF: ???? // ???? // ?????

Dempster, Armo, Simpkin and Saad all well down on their contributions of last year - for all sorts of reasons
Gwilt still a bit of a nowhere man for me - neither tall enough for KPD or fast enough for the little blokes - despite his previous good form
Lee has had injury issues, as has Siposs, but show promise
Not sure why Dunell was upgraded if he's not going to get a gig
Pierce, Lever, White and Markworth yet to feature
Gilbert has to come back from a bad knee - Roberton preferred IMO
Saunders, Webster, Murdoch, Hickey all get partial credits but still need to prove themselves.
No clear strong contenders for the unstated KP
Forward line a mess of epic proportions

Grim stuff.

Bring on my boys Boyd and Sully!!! Or at least Mitch Brown

Great summation of the list. My only comments are that trading Dal is crazy and Minchington is the only Rookie worth keeping. Otherwise agree with everything you say.

I agree with Brian and Plugger - Rat, Kosi and Schneids done. I would love Lenny for one more season but he may pull the pin himself.

 

[Half Back Pocket]

Understand both those points Knife. He just doesn't look to be giving the effort of previous seasons. It's hard to understand from the outside how much an injury like that can prevent a player from performing at their peak...maybe this is impacting on him mentally as well.

 

[L_W_P]

As crazy as it sounds I can see Kosi staying on the list for one more year as pure depth on the off chance that Lee and hickey keep getting hurt.

I thin Milney, Lenny and Blakey are all gone. Would love Lenny to stay for another season but the niggles are mounting.

What's the go with Schneids? Has he announced his retirement? Everyone seems certain that he is gone but if he can get his body right in the second half of the year I think he deserves another go.

IMO Fish is just about our most important 'borderline' guy. He might not be in outstanding form personally but he is a playing coach at this point ala Fletcher/Scarlett/Harley/Cornes etc. Guys like Stanley, Roberton, Webster etc are getting orders on the field about positioning, timing and tactics from him during games. Must hold onto him for another year or two.

 

[Manimal_Dunstan]

As crazy as it sounds I can see Kosi staying on the list for one more year as pure depth on the off chance that Lee and hickey keep getting hurt.

I thin Milney, Lenny and Blakey are all gone. Would love Lenny to stay for another season but the niggles are mounting.

What's the go with Schneids? Has he announced his retirement? Everyone seems certain that he is gone but if he can get his body right in the second half of the year I think he deserves another go.

IMO Fish is just about our most important 'borderline' guy. He might not be in outstanding form personally but he is a playing coach at this point ala Fletcher/Scarlett/Harley/Cornes etc. Guys like Stanley, Roberton, Webster etc are getting orders on the field about positioning, timing and tactics from him during games. Must hold onto him for another year or two.

Body doesn't look like holding up sadly, Remember reading he said to someone he'll see out his 2013 contract and see if his body can hold up.

 

[sammm]

Agree Plug,

Blake, Kosi, Milne are done.
Lenny is entirely his call. Schnides is a 50/50 based on his body.

Fish is the interesting one IMO. I think he'll request a trade this year (a la Lake to Hawthorn). Maybe the GWS offer (and acceptance by the club) has put paid to any commitment he had? He certainly doesn't look like the Fish of 2 years ago.

out of contract 2013Nick Dal Santo - but has the clause
Tom Simpkin
Clint Jones
Terry Milera
Farren Ray
Sean Dempster - Could have got 3 years as was talk of 2 or 3 year deal
Sebastian Ross
Jack Newnes
Jimmy Webster
Jay Lever
Adam Schneider
Justin Koschitzke
Beau Maister
Tom Ledger
Lenny Hayes
Stephen Milne
Jason Blake

so fisher still has 1 more year

out of all those
i think Schneider, (due to injuries), Kosi, Blake,
maybe lenny,
the club may get rid of maister, milera, jones

 

[Half Back Pocket]

out of contract 2013Nick Dal Santo - but has the clause
Tom Simpkin
Clint Jones
Terry Milera
Farren Ray
Sean Dempster
Sebastian Ross
Jack Newnes
Jimmy Webster
Jay Lever
Adam Schneider
Justin Koschitzke
Beau Maister
Tom Ledger
Lenny Hayes
Stephen Milne
Jason Blake

could be a fair old clean-out at years end!!! (Highlighted are players i definitely want to re-sign! The others - meh)

 

[Baldur]

Lenny is NOT meh. It may well be his last year but he can never be meh.

 

[TassieSaint]

Keep Lenny on for 1 more year, and Schneids if he can get in shape. The rest should retire.

 

[blktreacle]

just on Curren and Markworth, Markworth did his knee in Colorado, ive heard huge wraps on him from the club, he probably would have played already this year or would be close to it if he was fit. and Curren cant play until he gets upgraded off the rookie list, im surprised he wasnt for Markworth, but i think they want to see some imrovement in his game, i think the midseason rookie upgrade is coming up so it wouldnt surprise me if that happens soon.