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List Mgmt. List management for 2016

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It's clear that we need to move on some of our more senior players. It's difficult to know where the problems really start and who is most susceptible to mental capitulation but I think we need to trade for as many top 30 picks as possible over the next two years.

The following guys probably have decent value without gutting our team for a crack next year and I think it would also put the rest of the list on notice that no one is safe. All of these players have been underperforming for at least 18 months.
  • Westhoff - first rounder (most overrated player on our list both internally and externally so someone would be interested and goes missing too often when it matters)
  • Broadbent - second rounder (maybe late first based on recent trades of similar quality players and we have enough depth in his position to cover his loss)
  • Lobbe - late first / early second (ruckman are always overvalued in trades and his injury probably helps us hide his form, we could sell him on the 'wants to be a number 1 ruck with Ryder back' strategy)
  • Jonas or O'Shea + later pick to upgrade to a second rounder (have enough depth in their position to cover the loss)
With these guys out our best 22 still looks decent enough:

Krak Hombsch Austin
Pittard Trengove DBJ
Polec Wines White
Wingard Dixon Impey
Young Schulz Neade
Ryder Gray Boak
Ebert Hartlett (2 x up for grabs)

With our existing pick we would then have 4-5 first or second round picks this year to rejuvenate the group with some young talent. You'd expect that a couple of these blokes would also be ready to push for selection.

I honestly think our only 'untradeables' are Wingard, Wines, Gray, Hombsch, Pittard, Ryder, Dixon and DBJ. We should seriously consider offers for anyone else.
 
KenOath said:
It's clear that we need to move on some of our more senior players. It's difficult to know where the problems really start and who is most susceptible to mental capitulation but I think we need to trade for as many top 30 picks as possible over the next two years.

The following guys probably have decent value without gutting our team for a crack next year and I think it would also put the rest of the list on notice that no one is safe. All of these players have been underperforming for at least 18 months.
  • Westhoff - first rounder (most overrated player on our list both internally and externally so someone would be interested and goes missing too often when it matters)
  • Broadbent - second rounder (maybe late first based on recent trades of similar quality players and we have enough depth in his position to cover his loss)
  • Lobbe - late first / early second (ruckman are always overvalued in trades and his injury probably helps us hide his form, we could sell him on the 'wants to be a number 1 ruck with Ryder back' strategy)
  • Jonas or O'Shea + later pick to upgrade to a second rounder (have enough depth in their position to cover the loss)
With these guys out our best 22 still looks decent enough:

Krak Hombsch Austin
Pittard Trengove DBJ
Polec Wines White
Wingard Dixon Impey
Young Schulz Neade
Ryder Gray Boak
Ebert Hartlett (2 x up for grabs)

With our existing pick we would then have 4-5 first or second round picks this year to rejuvenate the group with some young talent. You'd expect that a couple of these blokes would also be ready to push for selection.

I honestly think our only 'untradeables' are Wingard, Wines, Gray, Hombsch, Pittard, Ryder, Dixon and DBJ. We should seriously consider offers for anyone else.
Click to expand...
Considering lobbe form, I think we would struggle to get a first rounder for him. And why would any team part for a first rounder for Westhoff.
 

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KenOath said:
It's clear that we need to move on some of our more senior players. It's difficult to know where the problems really start and who is most susceptible to mental capitulation but I think we need to trade for as many top 30 picks as possible over the next two years.

The following guys probably have decent value without gutting our team for a crack next year and I think it would also put the rest of the list on notice that no one is safe. All of these players have been underperforming for at least 18 months.
  • Westhoff - first rounder (most overrated player on our list both internally and externally so someone would be interested and goes missing too often when it matters)
  • Broadbent - second rounder (maybe late first based on recent trades of similar quality players and we have enough depth in his position to cover his loss)
  • Lobbe - late first / early second (ruckman are always overvalued in trades and his injury probably helps us hide his form, we could sell him on the 'wants to be a number 1 ruck with Ryder back' strategy)
  • Jonas or O'Shea + later pick to upgrade to a second rounder (have enough depth in their position to cover the loss)
With these guys out our best 22 still looks decent enough:

Krak Hombsch Austin
Pittard Trengove DBJ
Polec Wines White
Wingard Dixon Impey
Young Schulz Neade
Ryder Gray Boak
Ebert Hartlett (2 x up for grabs)

With our existing pick we would then have 4-5 first or second round picks this year to rejuvenate the group with some young talent. You'd expect that a couple of these blokes would also be ready to push for selection.

I honestly think our only 'untradeables' are Wingard, Wines, Gray, Hombsch, Pittard, Ryder, Dixon and DBJ. We should seriously consider offers for anyone else.
Click to expand...

I hope we have the balls and nous to actually complete some trades like this and grab a haul of draft picks. Depending if Neale re-signs with Freo we could on trade picks we get with Ah Chee, or use Ah Chee and a pick in a Lycett trade.
 
Take 2

Anyone is tradable but only Lobbe to be actively shopped

2016

I don't know: Clurey**( has to have 5 games from here until round 23), Hewett (scope but needs plenty to keep too), Monfries (Hardest one to work out. deserves 1 more but if it's only 1 he has to go now, so question is does he deserve 2?)
Delist: Carlile**, Colquhoun, Schulz, Stewart, O'Shea, Butcher, Mitchell
Shop around: Lobbe,** anyone who covers his salary can have him for free. Simply cannot hold his salary running around in the twos.
Rookie status: Hewett ?, Houston (extension), Snelling (extension), Krak (main list upgrade), Mitchell (delist)

Main list spots: 8ish + 1 or 2 rookies hopefully going back to 40+4 or possibly 44 pending rule changes.

DBJ, Jonas, Ah Chee: Extensions. (2 years, 2, 1)

Cut hard this year including blokes with contract remaining to get maximum kids in our system next year.

2017

Questionables: Amon, Toumpas, SGray, Palmer, Johnson, Bonner, White, Hewett, Houston, Snelling (Expecting half to go)


Ebert, Trengove, Howard, Hombsch, Frampton, Hoff: Extensions (2,2,2,5million years, 1, 1)


** = gone with contract remaining.


15 players or so turned over which is over a third of the list.





Then to work out the picks, which is the difficult part. The trades have to be for mid range picks we can't really gain picks without losing talent (shock horror). if a godfather offer doesn't come for any of our players it's going to be hard. Lobbe would net a pick or maybe even two poor ones and the rest will have to come from splitting our first rounder which is not what I'd do or getting lucky with a Clurey, Carlile, Monfries or O'Shea. Then comes free agency and token pick trades for fringe players that fit a distinctive role at the club instead of through the draft.
 
Powerade 08 said:
Mayne and Hocking are free agents. They would be immediate upgrades on Westhoff and Broadbent.
Click to expand...
Can't comment on Hocking but I watch a lot of Mayne and I kid you not, he is a terrible football player. His good form was purely effort, not ability. His goals and accuracy were a masterstroke of Ross Lyon and his methodology, resulting in large volume of 30 out directly in front shots from free kicks or set plays. Since then he's been worked out and had to play harder where he's lost all confidence. his set shot is one of the most unreliable in the comp now, he'd struggle to be best 22 at most clubs.
 
Delist: Butcher, Hoon, Mitchell, Hewett

Trade: Lobbe, Carlile, Maybe Amon

Retire: Schulz (Would offer 1 year contract if he has decent 2nd half of season)

Upgrade: Krak

Monfries, Clurey, Arch, Stewart and O'Shea I'd back in for another season for depth purposes.
 
These players were on our list in 2012 and currently still are.
2012 to current
Westhoff
Monfries
Ah Chee
Carlile
O'Shea
Pittard
Lobbe
Jonas
Broadbent
Trengove
Wingard
Schulz
Butcher
Stewart
Ebert
Hartlett
Boak
Young
R Gray
Hombsch

How many of those players are good consistent AFL players and how many more have we picked up since 2012 that are consistent AFL players. All our questions answered, all these payers are still playing.
 
Last edited:
Our midfield regularly gets rag dolled and some posters want to give one of the few players who has a bit of size about him ( Ah Chee ), who puts his head down in a pack and fights for the ball, is capable of getting it, and putting it to the advantage of a team mate with a quick handball. o_O

Maybe Arch could be more consistent if he is given a decent run at AFL footy instead of being in and out like a pork sword on knob night, and Ollie Wines might even appreciate a bit of physical help instead of being used as a human battering ram. :rolleyes:

Poor player management should have cost the club Aaron Young last year, when he was hocked around to all and sundry, and through nothing more than necessity ( the suspension of Angus Monfries ), lo and behold the bloke has got regular games and become one of our most consistent performers.
It's not the fringe players that are f****** the team up, it's the primma donna so called leadership group, and a selection policy that is as bad as the very worst of Choco. :thumbsdown:
 

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Watching NBA finals and during breaks was doing this, comparing list management of port vs the best team of the modern era, Hawthorn. players aquired, year and ladder position in that year included. 100 game players, projected 100 game players or in some cases just high quality players.

Via Draft
Via Trade
Unknown Quality

upload_2016-6-20_9-6-35.png

Make of it what you will but for me it says why we shouldn't trade all the 2006-2008 players.
 
Hong-Kong Phooey said:
its not a popular opinion, but id like to see jimmy T get an extended run in the first team. Surely there is a role for him somewhere
Click to expand...
Yeah I'm baffled as to why he was dropped. He was just starting to get some decent possession numbers and confidence. I swear sometimes our selection committee play chook lotto on Thursday afternoons.
 
malcolm said:
Jordan Foote an on-baller in the best for Sydney reserves 4 of the last 5 games - on the rookie list and can't get into the Swans seniors. Worth a look compared to our midfielders.
Click to expand...
His Dad David played for Torrens - good player (& a really nice bloke). I've been waiting for Jordan to make it into the senior team at Sydney, but if he can't I reckon he'd be worth Port looking at too.
 
strath39 said:
Considering lobbe form, I think we would struggle to get a first rounder for him. And why would any team part for a first rounder for Westhoff.
Click to expand...
If Westhoff played for another team and we offered a first rounder I'd be going apeshit. with his age and inconsistency a second rounder would be a good return. You'd do it if you wanted it for list balance or part of a player-player trade. Unless it's across town ( :eek: ), you could easily see Hoff retiring rather than move interstate though.
 
Andre said:
If Westhoff played for another team and we offered a first rounder I'd be going apeshit. with his age and inconsistency a second rounder would be a good return. You'd do it if you wanted it for list balance or part of a player-player trade. Unless it's across town ( :eek: ), you could easily see Hoff retiring rather than move interstate though.
Click to expand...

dont forget he is a downhill skiier. put him in the current geelong team and he would be in the best players each week. On the other hand, trade him to the lions and he will do nothing. So for a teeam like the cats to et better and win a flag, i reckon it would be worth them to cough up a pick from 16-18. dont forget we payed that and a second rounder for ryder. Teams that think they are a chance do some silly things to get the edge.
 

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Doctor Feel said:
Both Ryder and Monfries are in full training, no doubt with ball skills too. The only concern I would have for Ryder is that he is receiving the proper ruck coaching. Regardless, it's a hell of a lot different to being laid up for 6 months, easing back into some low impact running on the alter-g then finally some skills work 9-10 months after the injury.
Click to expand...

Jakksynn said:
I think people forget this. It's not a lay off. It's a stretch of time where they can't play games yes, but I'm sure they're be using this time to fix all those little injuries that AFL players pick up, and working on certain deficiencies in their game to ensure when they come back they're better than ever.

They'll take a bit to get back into the speed of AFL footy though. That's for sure.
Click to expand...

Agree, it's completely different going through a 12 month rehab from a knee reco when you've basically had at least 6 months of not being able to do much at all. In this instance as we saw with Gray the first year is often a consolation year then the following year is back to the players' best, however like with Libba this year the player can still make a good contribution without being at their best. For Ryder and Monfries they just have to train solidly then take a break before coming into full training when they're allowed to with the club and they should get a full pre-season in and as long as they play all the pre-season games they shouldn't have any trouble hitting the season at top speed.

philthy05 said:
Firstly. If you think lobbe is done at afl level I'm gonna assume you pay absolutely no attention to half the rucks running around at afl level. Hannath has been on an afl list for years now. Hampson mr I've never had more then 25 hitouts in a game is richmonds first ruck. Lobbe isn't done at afl level. Silly statement. How the hell is he done at afl level? We dropped him because he wasn't performing to a level we wanted and hinks was using it as a method to try to coax him into producing better. The same thing he is doing with Polec right now? Do you think Polec is done at afl level?


Secondly, you claim lobbe is done at afl level , then want us to do what? Bring in an afl standard ruck as back up to Ryder in case he isn't any good or gets injured next year and Howard and frampton isn't up to it?

???? So lobbe can't play afl , but some guy who an afl team is gonna let walk to us for virtually nothing (because surely you aren't suggesting we trade the shit **** all picks and tradable assets we have for a ruck who will play sanfl and hinder frampton's development) is going to be better then lobbe ? And this said imaginary player who is better then 'done at afl level lobbe' is coming here to play sanfl at port because he really likes alberton? And hates the idea of being first ruck at a club such as Richmond ?


If we want a ready ruck on our list next year we would either have to fork out for someone who will cost us, and thereby go back to a two ruck system, or pick up the lowest cheapest spud who is happy just to be on an afl list and play sanfl. Which I don't like that we would have to try to balance playing that guy and frampton in the ruck.


I would rather draft one of the 5 decent ruck prospects this year to try to develop someone for life after Ryder and back Frampton and Howard to improve in the case Ryder gets injured.
Click to expand...

Undoubtedly Lobbe actually isn't a bad second ruckman, but that's not the issue. The issue is his big contract that he signed after his best season as vice captain. He is no longer vice captain and probably won't even be in the leadership group next year if he's still at the club and his form has fallen off a cliff. He should be on a third or half of what he's getting paid and unless he signs a contract accordingly to help us get more cap space to attract better players then offloading him to a team with questionable first rucks like Richmond (Maric/Hampson) or GC (Nichols/Currie) and getting in a Jarrod Witts (Insert any other similar player) on basically a quarter of the money is the right thing to do. Shit we could get GC to trade back our own second rounder from the Dixon trade for Lobbe as they went for Currie who when he's played has been decent for them and Lobbe is a very similar ruckman who I've always thought was the better player and leader version of Currie.

Forzaport said:
It's entirely possible Lobbe could request a trade to a club where he would be the first ruck option as he's undoubtedly behind Ryder and I wouldn't be surprised if the club opts for Trengove as support in the future, especially if one of Austin/Clurey/Carlile are able to reliably shore up our key defensive posts in Trengove's temporary absence.

If Lobbe does leave then I'll be pushing for us to draft one or two ruck prospects across the national and rookie drafts.

As of right now we have Ryder, Lobbe and Frampton as rucks. Howard and Trengove would be the fourth 'break glass' options which isn't actually too bad as is.
Click to expand...

I said at the start of the year I thought Trengove as the last resort was a better option as a ruck than any spud off the scrap heap. As long as we get a serviceable Witts type in place of Lobbe our ruck stocks are no different to any other teams.

KenOath said:
It's clear that we need to move on some of our more senior players. It's difficult to know where the problems really start and who is most susceptible to mental capitulation but I think we need to trade for as many top 30 picks as possible over the next two years.

The following guys probably have decent value without gutting our team for a crack next year and I think it would also put the rest of the list on notice that no one is safe. All of these players have been underperforming for at least 18 months.
  • Westhoff - first rounder (most overrated player on our list both internally and externally so someone would be interested and goes missing too often when it matters)
  • Broadbent - second rounder (maybe late first based on recent trades of similar quality players and we have enough depth in his position to cover his loss)
  • Lobbe - late first / early second (ruckman are always overvalued in trades and his injury probably helps us hide his form, we could sell him on the 'wants to be a number 1 ruck with Ryder back' strategy)
  • Jonas or O'Shea + later pick to upgrade to a second rounder (have enough depth in their position to cover the loss)
With these guys out our best 22 still looks decent enough:

Krak Hombsch Austin
Pittard Trengove DBJ
Polec Wines White
Wingard Dixon Impey
Young Schulz Neade
Ryder Gray Boak
Ebert Hartlett (2 x up for grabs)

With our existing pick we would then have 4-5 first or second round picks this year to rejuvenate the group with some young talent. You'd expect that a couple of these blokes would also be ready to push for selection.

I honestly think our only 'untradeables' are Wingard, Wines, Gray, Hombsch, Pittard, Ryder, Dixon and DBJ. We should seriously consider offers for anyone else.
Click to expand...

Named those 4 players a few pages ago and absolutely agree. Don't necessarily agree with accumulating picks to go to the draft but we definitely need to trade out some of those types of players and target the right players in return. I strongly think we need a dominant midfielder once we clear the cap enough as clearly we don't have a player who clears the 28 possession average and is just a ball winner, ball magnet. This means that unless they play a very good game they only get 18-24 touches but players who average 28-30 have 25 or so as a more quiet game. Too many times Hammer, Ebert, Ollie and Boak get less than their direct opponents, sometimes it doesn't matter but often it means we're getting beaten in the middle and the game on the weekend showed it, Barlow and Neale smashed us. Neale would be a dream and is only getting better.

My Best Team 2017:
DBJ Hombsch Jonas
Krak Trengove Pittard
White Boak Polec
Monfries Westhoff Young
Wingard Dixon Schulz
Ryder Gray Wines
Hartlett Ebert Neade ???

I think Hartlett plays his best football off half back so if we can get a gun mid to step up in his midfield role then that would be ideal so he can pinch hit and smash it in the middle in bursts. I think Pittard and Krak's poise and disposal out of D50 is great and Krak's ability to man a dangerous medium and small forward is vital. DBJ is good for run and disposal and effort is good enough to get him in. Hombsch is our best defender, better as a third tall but still our best defender in general. Jonas is a better mix of being able to man up on a tall but has the agility and run power albeit not that quickly to go with a mobile tall like Crows Lynch or Watts but still has the size over O'Shea to go with a bigger forward, so he gets the nod over O'Shea. Trengove vital for pinch hitting ruck role and takes the rest ruck or lanky Westhoff type.

Notable omissions: O'Shea, whose skills are terrible and his form has been good enough to still be able to get good value out of him at the trade table. Just isn't good enough over long enough and under the pressure of a tight game I'd prefer any of the selected defenders have it over him, even Jonas and Jacko. Carlile, his body just won't let him get a run at it which is a shame as when he has played the last few years he's been very good but it was clear as early as round 1 that we just couldn't play him as well as Jacko, Jonas and Hombsch especially if we want to play a press as Carlile not only turns like the QE2 but isn't any better chasing back to cover either, not when his above team mates aren't much better to help him. Hombsch is good enough to play full back and Clurey and Austin are good enough to cover. Broadbent, probably the biggest omission but he's not really exceptional at anything other than booting the ball a long distance and whilst I think he's a decent decision maker I'd still prefer Krak for ball distribution and manning a dangerous small and I really like Pittard and DBJ's run over Broady's. I reckon if there's gonna be a midfielder dropping back into defense I reckon Hammer is better in this role and plays his best in this role so Broady who I went to school with and love is left in the twilight zone. He's good enough to get plenty of interest but not really spectacular to get something really good, he's also a Port fan and local so wouldn't be on a heap or need to be offered heaps to stay as he wouldn't otherwise want to go.

Definitely trade Carlile and O'Shea and potentially Broadbent if the offer is right.

I think we should consider trading Westhoff but it's based a lot on Schulz as if he's no good or he misses a lot of next year we need to keep Westy or get a good replacement who will be hard to find, especially if Howard is our long term. We can't have Dixon as literally our only tall forward all season next year. Even if Schulz plays decent football to end the season I'd keep Westhoff as he's durable as it gets and is likely to play into his mid 30's as he's that lanky wirey type that doesn't get injured, so if we were to trade him especially to a decent team who will get the best out of him he could bite us in the ass for longer than we think much like Waite does for Carlton. However I am as frustrated as the next person at Hoff's inconsistency and lack of ambition to take his game to the next level, could be a sensational lead up forward we desperately need! I think a medium-small forward group of Young, Wingard, Monfries, Neade and Gray is very good and won't be our issue and I love how they can all role through the midfield in bursts.

Impey has been pasted by DBJ as a running half back and whilst his speed at times has been exciting up forward, he too is too inconsistent and his disposal is frustrating, so I would consider offers if they are around his market value, as he'll be back on the fringe when White is back this year and Monfries is back next year.

Trade: Carlile, O'Shea, Lobbe, Broadbent, Amon, Ah Chee.
Consider Offers: Westhoff, Impey.
Delist: Mitchell, Butcher, Colquhoun, Stewart. (Re-Rookie for Defense cover)
Target: Neale (Similar Gun Mid), Witts (Similar 2nd Ruck), Watts (Purely as is FA but only if Schulz is done and especially if Westhoff if traded)

Can easily swap Witts and Lobbe and get a better draft pick in the process as well as free up a heap of cap space. Could also easily swap Westhoff with Watts for similar money but get an extra draft pick from trading Hoff and picking up Watts as a free agent. Granted Watts isn't any better in terms of flakiness and leadership but at least he plays a defined role that the team would benefit from and is also a great kick for goal to replace Schulz. If Neale does indeed re-sign with Freo as I expect him to I wouldn't mind Aaron Hall who even though he only re-signed last year probably not for that much as he had only just broken out, but seriously started the season on fire and basically had one bad game before being dropped by an inept Eade, so if we can get in his ear we could get him to see that Eade is being a dick to him and offer him more than what he's on but still potentially under market value for how he has played the last 12 months. I do think he's a bit of a front runner type midfielder so he wouldn't be top of the list, but worth considering if that then allows Hammer to go back.
 
Prison bar Pete said:
His Dad David played for Torrens - good player (& a really nice bloke). I've been waiting for Jordan to make it into the senior team at Sydney, but if he can't I reckon he'd be worth Port looking at too.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't mind us taking a punt on 1-2 hard midfielders who arnt getting a gig at another club. preferably no older that 23-24. Would love Neal for our first rounder but dont think that would happen.

Ideally if we could trade out lobbe for a 2nd rounder, and use that to get a guy or 2 like you mentioned. Keep our first for a scharenberg or someone in the draft.
 
Ken said stable teams win Premierships. With all these trades we will be years away.
 
TimmyD11 said:
.



Undoubtedly Lobbe actually isn't a bad second ruckman, but that's not the issue. The issue is his big contract that he signed after his best season as vice captain.. He should be on a third or half of what he's getting paid and unless he signs a contract accordingly to help us get more cap space to attract better players then offloading him to a team with questionable first rucks like Richmond (Maric/Hampson) or GC (Nichols/Currie) and getting in a Jarrod Witts (Insert any other similar player) on basically a quarter of the money is the right thing to do. Shit we could get GC to trade back our own second rounder from the Dixon trade for Lobbe as they went for Currie who when he's played has been decent for them and Lobbe is a very similar ruckman who I've always thought was the better player and leader version of Currie.

Trade: Carlile, O'Shea, Lobbe, Broadbent, Amon, Ah Chee.
Consider Offers: Westhoff, Impey.
Delist: Mitchell, Butcher, Colquhoun, Stewart. (Re-Rookie for Defense cover)
Target: Neale (Similar Gun Mid), Witts (Similar 2nd Ruck), Watts (Purely as is FA but only if Schulz is done and especially if Westhoff if traded)
Click to expand...


So you want us to trade lobbe because he is on too much money and trade in witts and Fa watts?

For starters lobbe contract was reportly 400k, which at the time seemed a lot of money, but today, and especially with the new cba it's not at all. In fact it would take a minimum of 400k to get witts over, probably more to be honest. And witts hasn't even shown he can play to lobbes level yet. Not too mention watts, that's another 500-600k there. Free agency adds a premium on their price, and to get a player to come to an interstate team unless you are offering hometown or deep finals you have to get them in the door with money.
 
your teams problem is you dont have enough depth to push out of form guys out in 2014 you had stalwards cornes cassisi keeping guys in check now you have
toumpas =soft as butter
ah chee = not ready
amon = not ready
 

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