List Mgmt. List Management Thread

[Velvet George]

That's what happens when people have a set agenda, why do you bother even trying to change them, it's an exercise in futility.

Maybe one day thy'll stop looking in the rear view mirror and focus on the road ahead.

Lol, says the man who doesn’t have the balls to even name his preferred team because he’d have to make a call on who he’d leave out.

 

[Soggy2112]

Reckon it’s you’re the one over simplifying things, “defence is good this year, what Nicks did last year must have helped”

He had us go slow last year as he was scared of turning the ball over and being hurt on the rebound. He played chicken shit football.

We are moving the ball on quicker this year, scoring more, defence has improved, wow, who would have thought.

Worrell has credited Davis for giving us levers where we only had one wood.
Curtin said it was Davis who talked to him about playing wing.

Obviously Davis has been great and brought a lot to the club.

But it’s not all about just speeding up the ball movement and that’s solved the defensive issues.

2023 we moved the ball quickly, but I sit up in the Riverbanks stand, we would get exploited on turnover regularly. We’d make the wrong decision on when to go and when not to go, our defensive anticipation was no where near us good.

That sort of thing is partly down to the likes of Worrell and Michalanney gaining experience, but it’s also down to them learning to play together, training their set ups, and yes, putting a big focus on defence in games to build that under pressure.

I’m saying that maybe, taking the focus away from playing on all the time, and moving the ball at lightning speed was what was needed to build some of those defensive habits and cohesion.

I think you can kind of see it with North, where Clarko has clearly emphasised moving the ball and their kicking game as being what he wants to develop, but it means that his defence suffers.

We are now a team that works really cohesively across the ground on defence. If you can’t give a coach some credit for that then what are we doing?

 

[Trigger13]

Offer NAS 1.8m a year. He’s worth it.


And he still won’t come

 

[Velvet George]

Obviously Davis has been great and brought a lot to the club.

But it’s not all about just speeding up the ball movement and that’s solved the defensive issues.

2023 we moved the ball quickly, but I sit up in the Riverbanks stand, we would get exploited on turnover regularly. We’d make the wrong decision on when to go and when not to go, our defensive anticipation was no where near us good.

That sort of thing is partly down to the likes of Worrell and Michalanney gaining experience, but it’s also down to them learning to play together, training their set ups, and yes, putting a big focus on defence in games to build that under pressure.

I’m saying that maybe, taking the focus away from playing on all the time, and moving the ball at lightning speed was what was needed to build some of those defensive habits and cohesion.

I think you can kind of see it with North, where Clarko has clearly emphasised moving the ball and their kicking game as being what he wants to develop, but it means that his defence suffers.

We are now a team that works really cohesively across the ground on defence. If you can’t give a coach some credit for that then what are we doing?

I know what you’re saying, I’m not buying it

 

[PeterSalt]

Adelaide: Last 2020, Finals 2025 (5 Years after entering bottom 4)

West Coast: 15th 2008, Last 2010, Finals 2011 (3 Years), Flag 2018

Fremantle: 16th 2016, Finals 2022 (6 Years)

Port Adelaide: 13th 2008, Finals 2013 (5 Years)

Western Bulldogs: 15th 2012, Finals 2015 (3 Years), Flag 2016

Hawthorn: 15th 2020, Finals 2024 (4 Years)

Hawthorn: 15th 2004, Finals 2007 (3 Years), Flag 2008

The longer ones are the fail teams. Melbourne two rebuilds, Carlton probably 4 rebuilds this decade, Gold Coast on their second build, Brisbane built twice. I class them as multiple rebuilds because the first group of players they took failed. Eg Trengove and Scully at Melbourne, Longer/Docherty/Yeo at Brisbane, Lynch/May at Gold Coast

West Coast (current) and North both on long single rebuilds

You should compare WC list in 2010 to ours in 2020 .. you might be surprised

 

[rabidcrow]

Plus Peatling, Cumming, ANB & Balme

And Worrell hasn’t missed 8-9, Thilthorpe 15, Rankine 7 Murray 13 etc etc

 

[rabidcrow]

Reckon it’s you’re the one over simplifying things, “defence is good this year, what Nicks did last year must have helped”

He had us go slow last year as he was scared of turning the ball over and being hurt on the rebound. He played chicken shit football.

We are moving the ball on quicker this year, scoring more, defence has improved, wow, who would have thought.

Worrell has credited Davis for giving us levers where we only had one wood.
Curtin said it was Davis who talked to him about playing wing.

He had us go slower last year and worked on defence because as close as we got to finals in 2023 we were 11th on defence and that wasn’t going to cut. Yes he overcooked defence the following year - not helped by Thilthorpe injury early, Tex injury early - and numerous defenders out for large chunks of games
It’s not about 1 thing. Change of game plan, injuries to key components, significant lack of depth (‘not helped by Doedee and McAdam going)

This year we have Curtin develop, pick up 3 high quality recruits and have had almost no serious injuries - and where we have it’s been like 1 defender or forward at a time

But it’s all Davis good Nicks bad.

 

[Soggy2112]

I know what you’re saying, I’m not buying it

Watch the way we defended the ground tonight. Watch how quickly we identified the dangerous areas and players and covered them. Watch how good our defenders are now at handing over when needed. Watch how quick we are to shift from defence to attack and vice versa when the ball is turned over.

It’s not overly complex, but it can only be developed by teaching it, training it and testing it on game day. It’s not all Nicks, but if you can’t give a coach some credit for that, what is a coaches job?

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Would make more sense to a cheerleading numptie.

The fact you actually brought up he was a rookie is embarrassing, where was Laird taken? Should I go on? He also won a B&F with us. He’s not a chump.

Coaches dropped him, haven’t put this leader into the top 10 of their B&F, reckon he gets there in his contract year?

And you didn’t answer my question, do you believe some players perform better in their contract year but not ROB?

If you can start getting some right this season then maybe I’ll start listening

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Expecting a 3 year deal at 30 seems a bit much. Especially for a late round rookie selection, right Jeffcrowe. Late round rookies should just get 1 year deals near the minimum because career performance is irrelevant to value.

I’ll listen to you as at least you’ve got a couple right this year

As for some others arguing with me , makes me feel confident

But overall I’m not overly keen on 3 years but if it’s the different between having ROB 1st ruck on 600-650k or Draper on 900+ I’ll take it

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Watch the way we defended the ground tonight. Watch how quickly we identified the dangerous areas and players and covered them. Watch how good our defenders are now at handing over when needed. Watch how quick we are to shift from defence to attack and vice versa when the ball is turned over.

It’s not overly complex, but it can only be developed by teaching it, training it and testing it on game day. It’s not all Nicks, but if you can’t give a coach some credit for that, what is a coaches job?

He’s got it wrong all year

Just let him die on his own sword in peace

He wanted us to be the western bulldogs fighting for a spot in 8 coming 9th scoring easily and conceding easily …and instead we’ve got the best balanced game plan in comp

 

[Mostyn]

Adelaide: Last 2020, Finals 2025 (5 Years after entering bottom 4)

West Coast: 15th 2008, Last 2010, Finals 2011 (3 Years), Flag 2018

Fremantle: 16th 2016, Finals 2022 (6 Years)

Port Adelaide: 13th 2008, Finals 2013 (5 Years)

Western Bulldogs: 15th 2012, Finals 2015 (3 Years), Flag 2016

Hawthorn: 15th 2020, Finals 2024 (4 Years)

Hawthorn: 15th 2004, Finals 2007 (3 Years), Flag 2008

The longer ones are the fail teams. Melbourne two rebuilds, Carlton probably 4 rebuilds this decade, Gold Coast on their second build, Brisbane built twice. I class them as multiple rebuilds because the first group of players they took failed. Eg Trengove and Scully at Melbourne, Longer/Docherty/Yeo at Brisbane, Lynch/May at Gold Coast

West Coast (current) and North both on long single rebuilds

I'd probably disagree with you about the West Coasts 2008 rebuild. They were just bad for a few years - lots of finals before it and after it. They didn't rebuild their squad in that time.

Hawthorn's rebuild I would say started in 2017, when they got rid of Hodge and started cutting senior players like Lewis and Mitchell, and they finished 12th. They bounced back to finals the following year, then did five years straight outside of the finals.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Or Curtin playing a high and hard running centre half forward role. Playing through him to hit up TT and Fog would be a thing of beauty. Plus he’d kick 60 himself.

Reckon his trajectory is Bont / Dawson . Midfield then drifting forward

 

[Mostyn]

Watch the way we defended the ground tonight. Watch how quickly we identified the dangerous areas and players and covered them. Watch how good our defenders are now at handing over when needed. Watch how quick we are to shift from defence to attack and vice versa when the ball is turned over.

It’s not overly complex, but it can only be developed by teaching it, training it and testing it on game day. It’s not all Nicks, but if you can’t give a coach some credit for that, what is a coaches job?

We're an extraordinarily well coached and drilled side now.

Maybe that's nothing to do with the head coach and more to do with support staff and new board members, who knows.

But it's clearly true.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

We're an extraordinarily well coached and drilled side now.

Maybe that's nothing to do with the head coach and more to do with support staff and new board members, who knows.

But it's clearly true.

Who cares who it’s due to in the end

It’s either good coaching or good delegation

But our game plan and numbers are as good as any side in comp and it’s a game plan that suits our assets

 

[Soggy2112]

I'd probably disagree with you about the West Coasts 2008 rebuild. They were just bad for a few years - lots of finals before it and after it. They didn't rebuild their squad in that time.

Hawthorn's rebuild I would say started in 2017, when they got rid of Hodge and started cutting senior players like Lewis and Mitchell, and they finished 12th. They bounced back to finals the following year, then did five years straight outside of the finals.

Hawks may have cut some players but they were very much trying to stay up by recruiting players like Scully, Wingard, O’Meara, Patton and Impey. They didn’t commit to rebuilding until after Clarkson.

 

[FR0GGY]

Reckon his trajectory is Bont / Dawson . Midfield then drifting forward

After he’s taken a goal saving mark in defence

 

[Jeffcrowe]

After he’s taken a goal saving mark in defence

Him and cumming getting deep back and deep forward is such a massive thing for us

If only our half backs can stay fit so cumming can stay on wing without getting shifted in game to accommodate Chayce , Isaac is in form

 

[Scorpus]

I'd probably disagree with you about the West Coasts 2008 rebuild. They were just bad for a few years - lots of finals before it and after it. They didn't rebuild their squad in that time.

Hawthorn's rebuild I would say started in 2017, when they got rid of Hodge and started cutting senior players like Lewis and Mitchell, and they finished 12th. They bounced back to finals the following year, then did five years straight outside of the finals.

Nah it was a full rebuild from West Coast

At the end of 2007 they traded Chris Judd and got Josh Kennedy and Chris Masten. Then they took at the following drafts: Naitanui, Shuey, Sheppard, Gaff, Darling, Lycett and McGovern. Had a bounce up to finals but continued to build through Yeo, Sheed, Barrass in the following years. That's the core of their 2018 flag team.

They had a lot of premiership players move on during that period. Judd (traded 07), Chick (retired 07), Jones (retired 07), Cousins (drugs 08), Braun (retired 08), Stenglein (retired 09), Hunter (retired 09), Wirrpanda (retired 09), Fletcher (retired 09), Seaby (traded 09). They also had Banfield retire directly after the 06 flag.

That's half their 2006 premiership team gone by the end of 2009

Of course they had some carry over players from 06 that made finals again in 2011 (like Kerr, Glass, Embley, Cox) but all were at the end of their careers. No different to a lot of other clubs rebuilding. They had the 15th oldest and 13th most experienced list in 2008

 

[Golumless]

I'd probably disagree with you about the West Coasts 2008 rebuild. They were just bad for a few years - lots of finals before it and after it. They didn't rebuild their squad in that time.

Hawthorn's rebuild I would say started in 2017, when they got rid of Hodge and started cutting senior players like Lewis and Mitchell, and they finished 12th. They bounced back to finals the following year, then did five years straight outside of the finals.

Wasn't 2017 when Hawks brought over Mitchell and JOM?

 

[Velvet George]

If you can start getting some right this season then maybe I’ll start listening

None right hey? How about Butts over Borlase

 

[Velvet George]

If you can start getting some right this season then maybe I’ll start listening

So, you’ve danced around this a few times now, do you believe players from other clubs have performed well in their contract year but it’s not possible for that to be the case with ROB?

 

[Velvet George]

Watch the way we defended the ground tonight. Watch how quickly we identified the dangerous areas and players and covered them. Watch how good our defenders are now at handing over when needed. Watch how quick we are to shift from defence to attack and vice versa when the ball is turned over.

It’s not overly complex, but it can only be developed by teaching it, training it and testing it on game day. It’s not all Nicks, but if you can’t give a coach some credit for that, what is a coaches job?

Did we move the ball on fast or slow? What did we do in the start of 2024? What he did then has nothing to do with where we are at now, which is what you claimed.

 

[Velvet George]

He’s got it wrong all year

Just let him die on his own sword in peace

He wanted us to be the western bulldogs fighting for a spot in 8 coming 9th scoring easily and conceding easily …and instead we’ve got the best balanced game plan in comp

Making up more bullshit Jeff, you need help.

Next game we lose are you going to have a break again?

 

[MRB37]

One thing I will never understand is why ROB goes inside f50. He’s a bad kick for goal. We have two capable f50 ruck contest players (Walker and TT). Wouldn’t he be better off loitering 50-60m out nearish the boundary, waiting to pick off a dump kick out of defence by the opposition? The old kick behind the play? I honestly do not get it.

That's gotta be by instructions now. Didn't do it at all until midway through the year when they decided Tex wasn't gonna do any ruck work inside 50 anymore.