That's enough evidence for me that he was a bootmaker , and in 1884 a year before Richmond's birth, was working at Thomson Boot Factory in Collingwood. Many thanks.
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Resource List thread - Inaccuracy in official records
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I have Pennings excellent volumes, so must look back over them.
Thought not sure I've ever seen it reported in the actual press that King Mitchell was Richmond first coach in 1885 (or trainer as early as 1885). I certainly had him as a trainer from late 1880s onwards but I must ask Pennings where he had the 1885 reference
Just for the record.
Of those players who played in Richmond's first ever game on May 2 1885 - we surprisingly know very little about just over half of them (those in bold)
(ie the minimum = a first name, dob or dod ). It's worth noting , although we dont have all their details, we do actually have headshots of almost all of them from a photocopy 1885 image that survives in our archives - meaning if we ever need to compare an image say found on ancestry or something, we can.
UNKNOWN PLAYERS
Adams - it was his only game
John "Jack" Conlon - from Cremorne. 15 games. Sometimes paper typo spelt Coulson but I'm certain it is Conlon
Batters - it was his only game. From South Yarra. ATHLETIC SPORTS. - FOOTBALL GOSSIP. |. Batters could be a typo for Battis.
Soutar - it was his only game. From 'Juniors'. Possible typo?
James Mullaly . 1885-86. From Park Hill (Richmond), and then Richmond Juniors
J "Pik" Paddy Purcell. 1885-86
Thomas "Tom" Graham . 1885-86, 1890-91. Sth Melbourne 1883-1884. Went to Port Melbourne 1887. Came back from Port Melb to Richmond in 1890. Spent 3 months in prison for assault in 1893. Victim later died. Inquest determined it was not due to the injuries he sustained but from typhoid fever. But Graham's death date unknown atm
Charlie Stephens 1885-1890. From Richmond Juniors. Went to Lilydale. Still alive as of early September 1912.
Watkins. - it was his only game. May also be known as just Watkin.
Richard "Dick" Owen - 1885-87. Still alive as of early September 1912
T Smart. it was his only game. Is first initial T . From Juniors.
UNKNOWN COMMITTEE (I do have individual headshot photos of each should we need to compare imargery)
J. Hall.
H Jones.
A Davis.
All three men above only served on committee for the one year 1885.
(Im assuming as they are on the initial committee of the RFC, they have a connection to the Richmond area either as a business, or through the cricket club)
FOUND
Fred Wookey b: 1862 d: 24 Nov 1929. No further action
Harry Layton d: 1915, had 10 children. No further action
William "Billy" Wells b: 1855 Richmond d: 11 June 1942. No further action
Christopher Rees Syle b: 1863, Richmond. d: 24 Dec 1934. No further action.
George Smith - b: 1854 d: May 31 1905. No further action
John "Jack" James "Bosco" Stewart. b: 1861 d: 2 Sept 1940. No further action
Alf Hill b: 1861, Richmond. D: 1 March 1957. No further action
George Howarth b: 1864 d: Aug 8 1943. No further action
William Rushton. 8 games in 1885. From Richmond Standard. Could be the 70 year old who died 1929, or the 47 year old who died in 1904. Edit: He's the 1929 death. His father died in 1912 and family was quite noted in Richmond area. OBITUARY. - Rushton. - Richmond Guardian (Vic. : 1884 - 1885; 1894 - 1897; 1900 - 1930) - 2 Oct 1897. No further action.
Francis Joseph Crohan. b: 1854 Conneticut. d: 28 April 1921. No further action
Alf Searle b: 1866, Richmond d: 22 May 1916. No further action
Joseph Shand b: 1864. d: 17 april 1935. No further action
Of those players who played in Richmond's first ever game on May 2 1885 - we surprisingly know very little about just over half of them (those in bold)
(ie the minimum = a first name, dob or dod ). It's worth noting , although we dont have all their details, we do actually have headshots of almost all of them from a photocopy 1885 image that survives in our archives - meaning if we ever need to compare an image say found on ancestry or something, we can.
UNKNOWN PLAYERS
Adams - it was his only game
John "Jack" Conlon - from Cremorne. 15 games. Sometimes paper typo spelt Coulson but I'm certain it is Conlon
Soutar - it was his only game. From 'Juniors'. Possible typo?
James Mullaly . 1885-86. From Park Hill (Richmond), and then Richmond Juniors
J "Pik" Paddy Purcell. 1885-86
Thomas "Tom" Graham . 1885-86, 1890-91. Sth Melbourne 1883-1884. Went to Port Melbourne 1887. Came back from Port Melb to Richmond in 1890. Spent 3 months in prison for assault in 1893. Victim later died. Inquest determined it was not due to the injuries he sustained but from typhoid fever. But Graham's death date unknown atm
Charlie Stephens 1885-1890. From Richmond Juniors. Went to Lilydale. Still alive as of early September 1912.
Watkins. - it was his only game. May also be known as just Watkin.
Richard "Dick" Owen - 1885-87. Still alive as of early September 1912
T Smart. it was his only game. Is first initial T . From Juniors.
UNKNOWN COMMITTEE (I do have individual headshot photos of each should we need to compare imargery)
J. Hall.
H Jones.
A Davis.
All three men above only served on committee for the one year 1885.
(Im assuming as they are on the initial committee of the RFC, they have a connection to the Richmond area either as a business, or through the cricket club)
FOUND
J
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If its this person from this article Richmond Guardian (Vic. : 1884 - 1885; 1894 - 1897; 1900 - 1930) - 2 Oct 1897 - p2 its the 1929 one who died in St Kilda July 27
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All mentioned in this article for the RCC Richmond Guardian (Vic. : 1884 - 1885; 1894 - 1897; 1900 - 1930) - 28 Sep 1912 - p3
Yeah that seems more likely , considering the family was very well noted in Richmond , as per his father obit.
I'll then say the 1929 Rushton is the one I am after. Thank you
I'll then say the 1929 Rushton is the one I am after. Thank you
Because the only thing I have to go on with J Hall , H Jones, and A Davis being on the first committee of RFC in 1885 is their first initials, and a headshot of J Hall and A Davis (nothing of H Jones), and the fact they werent on the committee any other year than 1885. - I thought perhaps of thinking a bit lateral.
They must be on the main committee because they are either a noted businessman in Richmond area, or have an association with the cricket club.
With that in mind, I notice an "I H Jones", who is a grocer in Richmond. He's also one of many businessmen who put their name to a request for James Lancashire to re-elect as a councillor in the Richmond area. Advertising - Richmond Guardian (Vic. : 1884 - 1885; 1894 - 1897; 1900 - 1930) - 12 Jul 1884 Now Lancashire is a vice president of Richmond in 1885. So there's a small connection there of the two men.
Plus according to this "I H Jones" announces he is retiring from the business at the end of 1885 - could that explain why he wasn't on the committee the following year, as he was no longer Richmond businessman - and perhaps why his headshot wasn't a part of the huge memorabilia item given to James Charles for his services in 1885 in forming the club (when all other committee/players have headshots).
As for J Hall. If I type that into Trove and limit searching to Richmond Guardian 1884-85 I get:
J.J Hall - secretary of the Richmond City Brass Band, and really no other 'Hall' in those years. Hmmm
I suspect we may never know who the full names of those 3 committeemen, but I'm just putting that info out there should it come in handy down the track.
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Hmm have I accidentaly stumbled across something here.
There is a Batters playing for Southern Cross FC in 1885, against a Hawksburn side which includes a Soutar
Batters is from South Yarra as per an earlier entry.
And Southern Cross FC would host their social functions in South Yarra.
So quite possible the Batters for Richmond is the Batters playing for Southern Cross FC in 1885
Attachments
This is in Pennings Vol. 3:
Pennings Vol. 2 has Batters (at Richmond) in 1885 coming from South Yarra:
Which would there mean it is this person
Full bio here Blueseum - History of the Carlton Football Club | Walter 'Dolly' Batters. (unsecured webpage fyi)
So I think that may be our Richmond man for 1 game - May 2nd 1885 - our first ever match.
He's not named to play that week for Southern Cross, so seems very likely:
Though he's still named to play for Richmond a couple of weeks later (when Blueseum has him playing for Southern Cross):
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You know, that's a very good chance it is him.
He was a journalist, former editor of Richmond Guardian (and the Richmond Guardian publisher John Asher was on that first committee as well),
And had lived in Richmond from 1882 according to this.
Now I actually have an image of him from an old Richmond history book.
If we do ever find an image of the Alfred Davis mentioned in the article (ie: ancestry etc), we can make a comparison.
Interestingly,Richmond did have a J.E. Purcell as a vice president in 1906-07 : may or may not be related to the player
This might be J. E. Purcell:
He ran the Mountain View Hotel (Richmond) in 1906:
He still had that pub in 1909. He died in 1916.
Hmmm is it possible then that this is John Ernest Purcell's wife dying in 1899
Because if it is... interestingly further down the obit is says she has two sons and daughters and the youngest son is... Patrick Purcell! (that could correlate to the J 'Pik' Paddy' Purcell player we are looking for. 'Paddy' obviously a nickname for 'Patrick')
Edit:
Just found this. Is this perhaps the Patrick Purcell who played for Richmond? It does say he was a former Australian Rules Footballer. And the "John Patrick Purcell" fits in with the "J "Pik" "Patrick" Purcell name we are looking for.
Edit, dammit I dont think that's him. Aged 71 in 1949 means he was born in 1878. Too young for the 1885-86 Purcell for Richmond VFA
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Bruce Godfrey - RFC 1910 , ESS 1912
His height/weight is missing from AFL Tables. *Paul*
Godfrey's WW1 enlistment shows it as 5ft 9.5 inches (176cm), and what looks to be 172 pounds (78 kgs)
When he was at Richmond he was "a big ruck man" ... and weigh between 12st and 13st (76kg - 82 kg) , so 172pounds seems right
His height/weight is missing from AFL Tables. *Paul*
Godfrey's WW1 enlistment shows it as 5ft 9.5 inches (176cm), and what looks to be 172 pounds (78 kgs)
When he was at Richmond he was "a big ruck man" ... and weigh between 12st and 13st (76kg - 82 kg) , so 172pounds seems right
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This is how he was shown on the Essendon 1912 "playing list" on the old AFL Historical Statistics site (same height/weight for him at Richmond in 1910):
AFL Tables does have his height (177), however.
Well at least we have his weight now.
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The Wiki page of Geelong and Carlton superstar Jim Flynn is a bit of a mess, and if someone could fix it that would be good!: Jim Flynn (footballer) - Wikipedia
The above photo is of Peter Hayes, who played a couple of games for Collingwood 1959-60, so I'm not sure what happened there! A decent picture of Jim Flynn can be see here, and I'm sure there's a few others out there.
Pennings Vol. 4 has the J. Flynn who played for Richmond in 1895 as joining the club from Canterbury. I don't think there's any reason to think that was the Benalla man:
I think Jim Flynn may have started 1895 with St James, played most of the season with Tungamah, then moved to Benalla late in the year, but he shouldn't have been involved with Canterbury or Richmond.
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A J. Flynn was the leading goalkicker in 1894 for Nunawading, so I wonder if the Richmond player was actually from that club?:
The above photo is of Peter Hayes, who played a couple of games for Collingwood 1959-60, so I'm not sure what happened there! A decent picture of Jim Flynn can be see here, and I'm sure there's a few others out there.
Pennings Vol. 4 has the J. Flynn who played for Richmond in 1895 as joining the club from Canterbury. I don't think there's any reason to think that was the Benalla man:
I think Jim Flynn may have started 1895 with St James, played most of the season with Tungamah, then moved to Benalla late in the year, but he shouldn't have been involved with Canterbury or Richmond.
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A J. Flynn was the leading goalkicker in 1894 for Nunawading, so I wonder if the Richmond player was actually from that club?:
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Updated - think it is now accurate (albeit a little light on references)
That's a big improvement! Thanks very much.
I spotted this the other day, and given how Jim Flynn's career panned out it's rather interesting!:
These clips are from the same article in The Herald the day before the Rd. 2 1897 game. It seems Flynn had been training with Collingwood, and looked set to continue playing with the club he'd played for briefly in 1896, but Geelong were obviously interested as well.
He didn't play for either side in Rd. 2, but after getting his permit, played his first game for Geelong (against Collingwood) the following week:
Certainly a case of "one that got away" for Collingwood!