Lloyd vs Richo

[tucker777]

listening to SEN after the game and every caller was ringing in saying about how good lloyd was (and credit where its due he was very good) and how he's added a new dimension to how he plays and how he now has a platform to warrant playing on for next year and possibly the next 2-3 years with his more up the ground role

the problem i have was that a tigers fan rings in and says that:
1stly - richo would be a greater player and kicked more goals than lloyd if he had played in a team like essendon with a midfield that they have had over the last decade and further...fair point...to which the guy on the radio goes along the lines of "well its pretty hard to say that anyone could kick more goals than lloydy *chuckles*" and goes on to say the old "well if he had but he didnt"
and 2ndly what really pissed me off was that the caller asks whether richo is a "champion" to which he got something along the lines of "ohhh well the word champion gets thrown around a lot and its hard to call someone a champion unless we are clear on the definition" and yet he described lloyd as a champion like 2 or 3 times during earlier calls

lloydy was great
richo is great
if lloyd can be called a champion then richo IS a champion

shallow bush graves for all at SEN

 

[beaver fever]

Don't know who they are but one of them is definitely a Bomber supporter, so nothing out of the ordinary really.

 

[tucker777]

Don't know who they are but one of them is definitely a Bomber supporter, so nothing out of the ordinary really.

i wish we could infiltrate some of the media's ranks....

 

[Mario Speedwagon]

Well we've got Caro....

 

[tucker777]

Well we've got Caro....

yes

let us speak no further of her

 

[smasha]

listening to SEN after the game and every caller was ringing in saying about how good lloyd was (and credit where its due he was very good) and how he's added a new dimension to how he plays and how he now has a platform to warrant playing on for next year and possibly the next 2-3 years with his more up the ground role

the problem i have was that a tigers fan rings in and says that:
1stly - richo would be a greater player and kicked more goals than lloyd if he had played in a team like essendon with a midfield that they have had over the last decade and further...fair point...to which the guy on the radio goes along the lines of "well its pretty hard to say that anyone could kick more goals than lloydy *chuckles*" and goes on to say the old "well if he had but he didnt"
and 2ndly what really pissed me off was that the caller asks whether richo is a "champion" to which he got something along the lines of "ohhh well the word champion gets thrown around a lot and its hard to call someone a champion unless we are clear on the definition" and yet he described lloyd as a champion like 2 or 3 times during earlier calls

lloydy was great
richo is great
if lloyd can be called a champion then richo IS a champion

shallow bush graves for all at SEN

You weren't listening to Mark Franklin?

I want to kick my radio around the room when he's on.

 

[78hearts]

Lloyd has also been criticised of late for being a shadow of his former self now essendon are struggling....a bottom four team.
Richo has shone his whole career in a bottom four team and won more games off his own boot in the last decade than anyone except prob carey.
It's pointless to bring up the 'what if he was at another club' routine too, he loves this club and by golly to we effing love him!!!!!

 

[Tazzytiger]

If we want respect we have to win.
Then we can be arrogant and people will hate us.
Hate is greatest sign of respect we can ever have.
I hope they will all hate our guts before too long and then we can stick it into them.
Our day will come!

 

[Riichoo(12)]

This thread is pointless, there is no comparison Richo is a far superior player, athlete and club man than Lloyd could ever dream to be.

 

[paolo]

we all know that essendon is the journos favorite team.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Statistical comparison:

Richardson

Year Age M   K   H    M   T   FF  FA  G   B   CM I50 R50  CP  1P  E     B  L  
----------------------------------------------------------------------------  
 
1993 18 14  8.0 3.8  6.6 0.4         2.2 1.7                            2 14  
1994 19 19  8.1 1.7  5.7 0.2         2.9 2.1                            5  9  
1995 20  9 10.4 2.3  6.7 0.7         3.0 0.3                            6  4  
1996 21 22 11.5 3.5  8.0 0.3         4.1 2.2                           13  9  
1997 22 19 10.4 2.6  7.8 0.4         2.5 1.8                            9 13  
1998 23 16  9.9 2.6  7.1 0.6 0.8 1.8 3.4 2.6                            2  9  
1999 24 20 12.4 3.8  8.6 0.3 1.8 1.6 3.4 2.1                           16 12  
2000 25  3 13.7 3.0  9.7 0.0 1.3 2.0 4.3 2.7 3.7 3.0 0.0 4.7 1.0 6.7    1  9  
2001 26 22 11.3 2.5  8.3 0.4 1.3 1.5 2.7 1.6 3.3 3.8 0.0 3.8 2.1 6.3    9  3  
2002 27 13  9.7 2.0  7.0 0.5 1.0 1.6 2.8 1.6 2.2 3.2 0.1 3.1 1.6 6.1   12 14  
2003 28 19 11.3 4.1  9.1 0.6 1.5 1.7 1.7 1.8 3.5 4.1 0.3 5.3 1.9 6.0    4 13  
2004 29 18 10.4 2.4  7.2 0.6 1.2 0.9 3.6 2.8 2.4 2.1 0.2 3.2 1.1 5.2   10 16  
2005 30 22 11.2 2.2  7.5 0.6 1.3 0.9 3.0 2.1 2.5 3.5 0.2 3.5 2.1 4.8    7 12  
2006 31 18 11.2 3.7  8.3 0.7 0.8 0.6 2.5 2.2 2.1 3.1 0.3 2.9 1.9 4.4   10  9                    
2007 32 22 11.9 3.3  9.0 0.6 1.6 1.3 2.4 1.8 2.0 3.1 0.4 3.0 1.8 5.2    6 16                    
2008 33 11 13.5 5.5 11.4 0.6 1.0 1.8 2.7 1.6 2.4 2.5 1.2 3.1 1.8 8.0      12                    
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
       267 10.8 3.0  7.9 0.5 1.2 1.4 2.9 2.0 2.6 3.2 3.2 3.6 1.8 5.6 0.44

Lloyd

Year Age M   K   H   M   T   FF  FA  G   B   CM I50 R50  CP  1P  E     B  L
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
1995 17  5  6.2 3.4 4.4 0.2         1.4 1.2                            0  5
1996 18 11  7.1 3.1 4.2 1.0         1.6 0.6                            3  4
1997 19 20 10.6 3.0 6.3 0.9         3.2 1.7                            7 14
1998 20 23 10.8 3.3 6.8 1.0 0.7 1.5 3.0 1.7                            5  8
1999 21 22 10.9 2.5 6.5 1.0 0.9 1.2 4.0 1.8                            9  3
2000 22 25 12.9 2.7 7.4 0.8 1.2 1.4 4.4 2.4 2.9 2.9 0.2 3.4 3.1 3.9   14  1
2001 23 21 11.6 2.3 7.5 1.1 0.9 1.1 5.0 1.7 2.2 2.2 0.1 2.8 3.4 4.2   15  2
2002 24 16  8.9 2.5 6.0 0.7 1.1 0.9 2.9 1.8 1.9 2.4 0.2 2.4 2.8 3.7    6  5
2003 25 22  9.3 3.0 6.4 1.0 0.8 0.8 4.2 1.4 2.3 1.8 0.0 3.0 2.3 2.6   14  6
2004 26 24  9.5 2.0 5.6 1.5 1.2 1.0 4.0 1.6 1.9 1.7 0.2 2.3 2.3 3.3   10  6
2005 27 20  9.1 2.6 5.2 1.2 1.2 1.0 3.0 1.5 1.3 2.1 0.3 1.7 2.5 2.5    3 13
2006 28  3 11.3 5.7 7.7 0.3 1.0 1.0 4.3 1.0 1.0 3.0 0.0 1.3 1.3 2.0    3 15
2007 29 19 11.3 3.1 6.5 1.7 1.5 1.6 3.3 1.6 1.3 3.0 0.2 2.3 2.7 3.9    0 12
2008 30 10  8.0 3.9 5.4 2.0 1.2 1.1 2.6 0.7 1.0 1.9 0.3 2.1 2.6 4.4      13
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
       242 10.2 2.8 6.8 1.1 1.0 1.3 3.5 1.6 1.9 2.3 0.2 2.6 2.7 3.5 0.35

The rightmost columns are contested marks (CM), inside 50s, rebound 50s, contested possessions, one-percenters, errors, Brownlow votes and ladder position.

Both great players. Essendon has made the finals in 8 of 14 seasons during Lloyd's career, Richmond 2 of 16 for Richardson. Lloyd's goal average falls by 37% in losing sides; Richo's decreases by 32%. Factor in his longevity, and ability to play with and recover from injury, and my vote goes to Richo (although I'm biased ).

Interesting to note that the only players to have polled more Brownlow votes in sides with a lower winning % than Richo are acknowledged greats in Bunton, Skilton, Murray, Flower and Laurie Dwyer (with Richo almost certain to pass Dwyer's votes tally this year). Prior to the last 20 years or so, players from losing sides were given more consideration in voting, e.g. Bunton polled 122 votes while playing in just 38 wins. If Richo can't achieve team success during his career, hopefully he will at least be widely recognised for his heroic performance in a poor side.