NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

[Brasher]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

If im not mistaken, wasnt non-guaranteed contracts something that the owners negotiated for when the players demanded, and then got, FA?

Absolutely, as they should be.

Can you imagine the plight of the Raiders if they had to carry Russell's contract if it had been guaranteed for the term of the deal? A guaranteed contract provides no incentive for a player to perform and, worse yet, potentially avoid physical injury at the risk of losing his contract to an injury.

It's not like Russell can cry poor mouth either, he keeps his signing bonus afterall.

 

[_shifty_]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

Again that is the FOs fault for not scouting properly and then picking players who turn into busts.

A 3yr option? Considering most college players get drafted between the ages of 22 and 24, what is potentially a 6 yr contract is far too long. That rookie contract would cover their prime (with prime generally being 26-29), and in the case of most RBs, their entire career. Furthermore, almost no rookie currentl gets a 6 year contract, the longest are 5, with most players getting only 3 or 4 year contracts.

There is a limit on the amount of years on a rookie based of where they were drafted. Dont know.it off my head but it is something like top 10 can be six round 1 5 and the rest 4

 

[greennick]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

The Raiders weren't stuck with Russell, just like the Chargers weren't stuck with Leaf and others, Akili Smith, Tim Couch, Alex Smith, Heath Shuler...the list goes on.

Rightly or wrongly, these teams picked these players to be franchise QBs and deserve to be paid as such.

The real issue is that NFL player contracts are not guaranteed (unlike most coaches, GMs and owneers who are often the cause for the players poor performance) so, to satisfy cap considerations, they pay huge signing bonuses up front before these guys have proven anything.

I don't think they get to be paid like franchise QBs till they prove they are that. They can come in overweight every year and not do the work and still get the huge pay check. That is what I think is wrong.

Does it make a difference if they get $30m guaranteed or $10m and a $20m bonus?? Same result either way.

 

[Brasher]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

I don't think they get to be paid like franchise QBs till they prove they are that. They can come in overweight every year and not do the work and still get the huge pay check. That is what I think is wrong.

Does it make a difference if they get $30m guaranteed or $10m and a $20m bonus?? Same result either way.

Unfortunately future contracts don't work that way, whether it be a new CEO of a Fortune 500 or the heir to the QB throne, your contract reflects what you are going to do for your employer not what you have done in the past.

Every first rookie contract is a risk but in the end its up to the owners to do their due diligence and stucture contracts that minimise the risk when guys like Russell come along.

 

[drd23]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

I don't think they get to be paid like franchise QBs till they prove they are that. They can come in overweight every year and not do the work and still get the huge pay check. That is what I think is wrong.

Does it make a difference if they get $30m guaranteed or $10m and a $20m bonus?? Same result either way.

Look at it from the players perspective. If there was no guaranteed money, and all the extra money was in performance bonuses, the team could cut you at any time without any disincentive for them not to and you would be without that money that you had signed a contract to receive. What about if you got a serious (maybe career ending) injury? You would have no chance to earn the bonuses and the team could cut you at any time.

It all comes back to FOs being responsible with how they draft and what contracts they offer.

 

[Leadfoot101]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

The amount of money that is in the NFL is mind boggling, then again it's the large fan base (20 million is already the population of Australia) and the amount of sponsorship dollars in this sport. To be honest, I'd not be striking about anything when you can already make more than a million a year....they should see what the AFL players earn! Then again they might not even know what AFL means.

 

[ERead]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

The NFLPA "Lockout Central": http://www.nflplayers.com/about-us/2011-Lockout-Central/.

Includes handy CBA expiration clock.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

So if an agreement isnt signed in 34 days that's it? Sayonara 2011?

 

[DB10]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

they can't play until a new CBA is in affect, right? so until there is one there is no 2011 season ...

must wonder if teams are even thinking about doing what happened in 1987 and getting scab players in the event of a lockout. that'd be pretty weird.

 

[MarcusP2]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

Nope, they can still negotiate a deal right up to the 11th hour.

 

[ERead]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

So if an agreement isnt signed in 34 days that's it? Sayonara 2011?

They could probably sign an agreement after 34 days and 2011 would happen, but if they don't get something done by March it will affect the off-season (players presumably won't turn up for work). If the off-season is affected, the regular season will be affected in some way.

The later they sign something, the bigger the affect. Can you imagine if nothing was signed until shortly before the pre-season?

 

[ERead]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

N.F.L. Finances, as Seen Through Packers’ Records: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/28/sports/football/28packers.html

I didn't realise that the Packers, as a public company, are the only team that publishes its finances. An interesting insight.

 

[exe ex machina]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

The Packers earn much less than they did four years ago. Their operating profit fell 71 percent from $34.2 million in the year ended March 31, 2007 (which coincides with the start of the current collective-bargaining agreement), to $9.8 million in the year ended last March 31. Revenue rose 18 percent in that period to $257.9 million.

The primary reason for the sharply reduced profit was player costs (salaries and benefits), which swelled in those years to $160.8 million from $110.7 million.

“When your revenue goes up in a recessionary period, your profits should go up, but they diverge here and that’s attributable to higher player costs and team expenses,” said Marc Ganis, a sports industry consultant.

Murphy said, “Our player costs are growing at twice the rate our revenue is growing.”

........

 

[Woodson]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

[YOUTUBE]UmBQyqEUvQg[/YOUTUBE]

THIS is the CBS BANNED ad for BLOCKING the LOCK OUT.

[YOUTUBE]Jl9BpUgYljQ[/YOUTUBE]

 

[exe ex machina]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

The CBA/Lockout is also a touchy topic between NFL players....

Antonio Cromartie Tweets That He Will Smash Matt Hasselbeck's Face In

A week of visible unrest in the NFLPA continues to grow more abrasive.

A social-media firestorm erupted on Thursday, starting with Matt Hasselbeck's short-lived tweet directed at Jets cornerback Antonio Cromartie, which the Seahawks quarterback would soon remove.

"Somebody ask Cromartie if he knows what CBA stands for," Hasselbeck declared via his Twitter account, @Hasselbeck.

The tweet was quickly removed. But not soon enough, it seems, for Cromartie.

"hey Matt if u have something to then say it be a man about it. Don't erase it. I will smash ur face in," Cromartie fired back from @A_Cromartie31....

Read More

 

[lards]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

Hass made a great point but he should of left it on there, and **** me Cromartie is one the biggest tossers in the league. His mother would be so proud.

 

[_shifty_]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

Hass made a great point but he should of left it on there, and **** me Cromartie is one the biggest tossers in the league. His mother would be so proud.

Thing is, Cromart's original comments seemed to be some of the most reasonable things said about the situation; until he felt the need to called everyone assholes again.
Look at the players who attacked him over it? Players like Dockett and Ray Lewis, vets with plenty of money left in their deal. It's the younger players entering FA, like Cromartie, who are going to get screwed by a lockout and they seem under-represented by the union reps.
DeMaurice is just a complete flog aswell, he is worth than Goodell/owners IMO. Im pretty sure earlier he agreed to an 18 game season despite almost complete opposition from the players and had to do a backflip because of the criticism from big players.

Also
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/02/04/roger-goodell-18-game-season-is-what-fans-want/
Apparently want to pretend Goodell thinks the fans want it, but i did laugh at the first comment

conseannery says: Feb 4, 2011 12:40 PM
No.

1233 117​

edit: didn't come out to well, but that is 1233 thumbs up

 

[superfreak]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

Got this from ESPN.com NFC South Blog...

As you all know, there’s a lot of uncertainty about the labor situation for 2011. These numbers don’t include what restricted free agents, exclusive-rights free agents or franchise players would count toward the cap because we don’t know that -- and won’t until there is a labor agreement in place. And, although we know there will be a 2011 draft no matter what, these numbers don’t include rookie salaries. The numbers below are only for players currently under contract for the 2011 season.

Also, we won’t know what the 2011 salary cap for all teams will be until there’s a deal in place. For reference, the salary cap in 2009, the last capped year was right about $130 million.

Dallas (6-10) $136.6 million
Green Bay (10-6) $129.8 million
New York Jets (11-5) $128.5 million
New York Giants (10-6) $126.3 million
Denver (4-12) $125 million
Houston (6-10) $118.4 million
Pittsburgh (12-4) $116 million
Indianapolis (10-6) $115.5 million
Washington (6-10) $115.2 million
Detroit (6-10) $113.8 million
Minnesota (6-10) $108.4 million
Tennessee (6-10) $107.4 million
New Orleans (11-5) $105.2 million
Chicago (11-5) $104.9 million
Miami (7-9) $103.1 million
St. Louis (7-9) $102.4 million
New England (14-2) $102.3 million
Atlanta (13-3) $102.1 million
Baltimore (12-4) $101.3 million
San Francisco (6-10) $100.9 million
Cleveland (5-11) $99.2 million
Buffalo (4-12) $96.4 million
Cincinnati (4-12) $90.7 million
Oakland (8-8) $85.8 million
San Diego (9-7) $85.8 million
Arizona (5-11) $83 million
Seattle (7-9) $81.1 million
Philadelphia (10-6) $80.8 million
Jacksonville (8-8) $78.1 million
Kansas City (10-6) $74.7 million
Carolina (2-14) $73 million
Tampa Bay (10-6) $59.7 million

 

[Brasher]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

Thanks Superfreak,

When looking at these number you start to see how complex the CBA negotations are.

Like if they have a salary cap what will be the new cap level?

Say they set a new cap level of $140M (not unreasonable since the last cap in 2009 was $130M and the league wants an 18 game schedule). That leaves over $1.2 billion dollars in the free agency pool or over 1/4 of available cap space across all teams.

I'm not sure what the figures Superfreak represent but I would assume all bonuses would have been absorbed in the non-cap year 2010 (why would an owner take forward dead money?) so the figures would be pure salary for 2011. Whilst $1.2 billion sounds like a lot (it is in the real world) once you start factoring teams having to account for pro-rated signing bonuses again and the number of high profile FAs available this number will not stretch far.

 

[MinuteWaltZ]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

A day late, but as many of you have probably heard, a negotiating session between the Players Union and the NFL scheduled for last Thursday was cancelled because the two sides were too far apart.

This article by Chris Mortensen provides some details on differences in the two sides' stances.

The largest issue is the distribution of revenue between the players and ownership. Under the current CBA the approximately $9 billion in revenue is split 60/40 players/owners after a $1 billion credit is withdrawn for ownership. The Players Union supposedly offered a 50/50 split on all revenue, while ownership countered with a 50/50 split after a $2 billion credit is withdrawn for ownership.

In summery:

Current:
Players = ($9 - $1)*0.6 = $4.8 billion
Owners = (($9 - $1)*0.4) + $1 = $4.2 billion

Union Offer:
Players = $9*0.5 = $4.5 billion
Owners = $9*0.5 = $4.5 billion

Owners' Offer:
Players = ($9 - $2)*0.5 = $3.5 billion
Owners = (($9 - $2)*0.5) + $2 = $5.5 billion

Ownership also proposed a veteran wage scale on top of the already publicly known rookie wage scale proposition. And of course the 18 game schedule is still a wedge issue.

This is going to drag on into the summer (northern hemisphere) at least.

 

[greennick]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

Thanks for that. Great post.

The more I read into it, the more I think the owners are being w***ers with this 18 game season thing. I don't think it is necessary. Just make the pre-season games cheaper and more people will come.

For the revenue sharing. I'm sorry, but the guys who play the game and risk their lives get more than that share. The teams are more than profitable, they don't need that much more of the pie. I reckon they may end up with a 50/50 split with a billion credit for ownership. So, the players get $4b (down $800m) and the owners $5b (up $800m). Maybe the credit won't be that big, but I think it will be in that ball park.

 

[Woodson]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

Thanks for that. Great post.

The more I read into it, the more I think the owners are being w***ers with this 18 game season thing. I don't think it is necessary. Just make the pre-season games cheaper and more people will come.

I trust you already know, our guys (the Rooney's) are one of the very few owners NOT in favour for the 18 game season.

As for what I think... the OWNERS 2B hike ante is totally unreasonable.

This is the bottom line crux to why I believe they'll find a balance..

Kimberly Freeman Brown, executive director of American Rights at Work, said the NFL and union are fussing over many of the same issues faced by many workers: pay cuts, longer working hours, workplace safety and health care. She said a lockout would have an impact on 150,000 jobs and cause more than $160 million in lost revenue in every city with an NFL team. She called a potential work stoppage "something that could potentially have devastating consequences on our quality of life and our mental health."

"For many fans, football is just that deep to us," Brown said.

 

[ERead]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

Thanks for that. Great post.

The more I read into it, the more I think the owners are being w***ers with this 18 game season thing. I don't think it is necessary. Just make the pre-season games cheaper and more people will come.

For the revenue sharing. I'm sorry, but the guys who play the game and risk their lives get more than that share. The teams are more than profitable, they don't need that much more of the pie. I reckon they may end up with a 50/50 split with a billion credit for ownership. So, the players get $4b (down $800m) and the owners $5b (up $800m). Maybe the credit won't be that big, but I think it will be in that ball park.

I have to tip my hat off to the AFL for their new Nab Cup structure. I don't know how the crowds are, but making the games shorter and running them back to back is a good way of creating interest for the fans without changing the games into regular games.

 

[greennick]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

I trust you already know, our guys (the Rooney's) are one of the very few owners NOT in favour for the 18 game season.

As for what I think... the OWNERS 2B hike ante is totally unreasonable.

This is the bottom line crux to why I believe they'll find a balance..

Yeah, I read that. Seems the Rooney's are happy to share the funds and mainly just want there to be a deal sorted ASAP and football played next year.

I think a compromise is on the cards too. Once they sort out the money issue, everything else will fall into place.

 

[MinuteWaltZ]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

Yeah, I read that. Seems the Rooney's are happy to share the funds and mainly just want there to be a deal sorted ASAP and football played next year.

I think a compromise is on the cards too. Once they sort out the money issue, everything else will fall into place.

I'd agree that the money is the main issue. There seems to be some general consensus on the need for a rookie wage scale (veterans on one and two year contracts tend to resent unproven rookies getting seven year $50 million deals), and the 18 game schedule can probably be massaged through with extra player compensation.

However, the two sides are so far apart on the money split and are so antagonistic to each other right now that finding a revenue distribution both parties can live with is going to take some time and pressure to get done.

Case in point, after scheduled negotiations today the NFL filed an unfair labor practice charge against the Union with the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB). The charge alleges that the NFLPA is not bargining in good faith, and is only participating in negotiations as pretext until the current CBA expires, at which point, the NFL also alleges, the union intends to decertify and sue the league for antitrust violations. While decertification and litigation would be a good strategy for the Union if the CBA expires, the NFLPA has objected to the allegations that they are not negotiating in good faith, pointing out the numerous proposals made by the Union.

Stay tuned...