Roast Lonergan is a dangerous liability

[Pure_Ownage]

OP is overreacting. Yes he was poor but our mids and defenders were equally as poor in leaving him isolated 1-1 that often which shouldn't happen. Lonergan still worked damn hard and should not be chucked out simply because he has a bad game, gee some of you people go back to bashing convenient targets after a loss.

The only bit where I agree with the OP is that Scarlett should play full back, I think of how he has utterly destroyed Bradshaw and Fevola this year and I almost cry to see Bomber not putting him there every week. We may well lose a final if that doesn't change, and it won't be Lonergan's fault.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

dont you guys think that its a probelm that we have 4 blokes in our back 6 who are over 190 cm's ?

imo lonegran has done well but we dont need 4 talls in our backline .none of the sides that we will play in september have a monster tall forward that we need lonegran to play on

 

[ATSAM]

Perhaps like Byrnes and Varcoe he is a favourite of the Coach. I heard Bomber say earlier in the year, after not much of a game from Varcoe, that he would stay because " he is a favourite'.
Not a comment that says much for any of the other players.

 

[rizzo]

Perhaps like Byrnes and Varcoe he is a favourite of the Coach. I heard Bomber say earlier in the year, after not much of a game from Varcoe, that he would stay because " he is a favourite'.
Not a comment that says much for any of the other players.

I'm not sure what you are getting at? Varcoe is in the team because he deserves to be. He was given games when he was younger so he could continue to learn. Byrnes and Lonergan are not open to that kind of privilege because they are now senior players...

 

[rooie]

he wasnt the reason we lost but he was less than ordinary last week til roughy went walkabout in his own noggin.

so when he plays well its because his opponent is playing bad, but when he plays bad that is just his own damn fault?

poor bugger.

 

[Last Line Hero]

Just to clarify a few points.

1. I am not basing my opinion of Lonergan based on last night's game. The fact is, that whilst yes, his game has improved, I am concerned about the Geelong coaching staff electing to play him on the opposition's biggest and/or best forwards on a consistent basis. The reason for this, is that when he is isolated and/or in contested situations he looks very vulnerable, and is prone to gross indecision with the ball in his hands. We need to remember, he has been just solid this year, playing in a team that has dominated most weeks.

Any other club, other than maybe St. Kilda or Collingwood and he'd often be found wanting. Come finals, in big games and in pressure-packed situations, his shakiness could prove costly and you can almost guarantee sides will look to exploit him. If there is a Geelong fan that can honestly tell me this isn't of even minor concern to them for when finals roll around, you are lying. One or two mistakes, or errors in judgment, particularly in defence, here and there are all it will take against a Hawthorn or St. Kilda and we can kiss the flag goodbye. And if it comes down to who I would rely on more in a big game to not make such an error against a gun forward, I'd say Scarlett before you could even blink.

2. In no way am I saying that he shouldn't play, or that he's finished. I fully respect him playing in the best 22 and being given a chance by Bomber. What I am questioning of is merely the manner in which the Geelong coaching staff utilise him with Scarlett in the team. Bomber Thomspon says that they don't like to designate match- up's for Scarlett because they like him to play deep in defence. That is crap. No matter who Scarlett plays on, that player drags him outside 50 and up the ground. And Scarlett inevitably follows. All trying to dictate Scarlett's position has done is create a situation where a lesser player drags him away to open up space for the big forwards, and it has shown, our defence of power forwards has been poorer this year. Our defence is at it's best where Scarlett plays on the best forward or the full- forward and forces them to sacrifice their game.

3. Scarlett is 30 years old, coming of his 5th All- Australian and has essentially become our 3rd tall defender to develop Lonergan and implement a rotating defensive scheme. Anyone would think he was at the end of his tether and out of form. I fully support giving younger guys a go to look to the future, but why now? Scarlett could have easily had 2-3 years more as one of if not the best defender in the competion. I guess I am just hoping that the coaching staff have every intention of putting Scarlett back where he belongs in finals, and just using the season to give Lonergan a go.

4. Lonergan is of good value in defence. He gives us better flexibility and is a big body who can occupy space. All I suggest, is that he be given less responsibility at this stage than he is, when we have Scarlett running around in the prime of his career. I think the structure of our defence is suffering a bit with Scarlett playing a less integral role.

 

[InnocentBystandr]

People are not giving enough credit to how good Tippett is. He out marked Harry too. In the last year and bit, Lonners has been towelled by Brown, Fevola, Franklin and now Tippett. Has anyone noticed these are all gun forwards, who on their day beat whoever they are on? (which is why they are gun forwards).

Lonners has been good this year, not his best last night, but he wasn't alone there.

 

[alfy!]

I agree with the TS, I can see Lonergan being the one that makes a huge error in a tight game in the finals.

 

[The rabbi]

Lonners is our third string defensive tall playing on a Key Position forward. The problem is for him is if the rest of the team has a bad night he will be exposed. Which is what happened tonight. Our midfield was well down so his match up was exposed. That's all. When the team is playing well he gets more support. Considering he was playing on guy much taller and stronger he did the best he could. Some of the observations in this thread are based on very little knowledge and too much emotion. Lonners will be back next week and the week after. He is an important part of the structure.

Originally Posted by krisholio14
"**** a duck he has one ordinary night and that's it he's finished.

He wasn't the worst out there tonight regardless."

Exactly. A little bit of cool headed perspective would not hurt this discussion.

I would suggest some people should think about having a cooling off period of 24 hours before posting after a loss.

I thought that we were well beaten in the center and the Crows defense were able to completely shut our forward line down. Not the first team to do that this year.

The way the that ball came so quickly out of the center and into the Crows forward line is enough to expose the best of defensive players let alone Lonergan.
Lonergans' form has been very good this year.

The loss to the Crows was a team effort.

It is clear to me that Lonergan and Byrnes are the official Scape Goats on this forum.

 

[The rabbi]

I agree with the TS, I can see Lonergan being the one that makes a huge error in a tight game in the finals.

I remember a certain final and I saw Brad Ottens make a huge error in front of goal from 15 yards out. I saw Mooney make a couple of huge errors from not much further out from goal. Shit, Chappy did the same thing from about 35 out. Harry Taylor touched the ball on the ground in the backline but forgot to take it with him. Hawthorn scored a goal. Another huge error. Milburn mouthed off to the umpire that he had touched a St.Kilda goal (when he clearly had not) It was a huge error and could very well have cost us a Premiership.

Do you see where this is going?

Or are you very selective when it comes to huge errors?

 

[alfy!]

Those errors were surprising and pretty much out of character.

What I am saying is that if Lonergan makes a mistake, I don't think many of us are going to be surprised.

 

[darren forssman]

so when he plays well its because his opponent is playing bad, but when he plays bad that is just his own damn fault?

poor bugger.

no.

i dont think he played that well last week...roughy was all over him in the first quarter and looked dangerous. then roughy disappeared of his own accord.

 

[The rabbi]

Those errors were surprising and pretty much out of character.

What I am saying is that if Lonergan makes a mistake, I don't think many of us are going to be surprised.

Mooney and Ottens are not prone to missing easy goals?

Friggen Hell. I am surprised when they manage to kick them.
Darren Milburn does not have a tendency to backchat umpires and give away foolish 50 meter penalties?

 

[The rabbi]

Those errors were surprising and pretty much out of character.

Originally Posted by alfy!
"I agree with the TS, I can see Lonergan being the one that makes a huge error in a tight game in the finals."

They were in a GRAND FINAL. They conspired with other errors to cost a PREMIERSHIP.

 

[flatcat]

Yes he is an ordinary player. The reality is we have lots of other ordinary players too. That's the reality of the draft and salary cap etc. St. Kilda have even more ordinary players but they overcome it with intensity, discipline and adherence to an effective (if ugly) game plan. That's the challenge for coaching staff these days - get as much as you can out of what what you've got and win games. Burns is a totally one sided player... Hunt lacks agility at times... Hogan's intensity and disposal is poor ... etc. etc. lots of players have their limitations. At the end of the day the coaches are playing Lonergan as a key position and they may do it in the finals if they think thats the best way to win. If nothing else, putting games into Lonergan and trusting him with big assignments has improved him and him being an improved player gives us a better opportunity to win games when it counts. The goal in the home-away season assignment is to win more than 15 games and make the top 4 ... the season itself will be determined by how we play in 3 finals. I think the last 4 weeks have shown some very worrying signs for Geelong in so much as oppositions have made some of our prime movers impotent, killed our clean clearances from defence, made us score a low percentage from our inside 50s and Hawthorn and St Kilda in particular have had far greater intensity than us. But it is after all only July .. lets just wait until the end of the year until we get our sh*t together. Having higher intensity than our rivals, being able to handle oppositions choking tactics and having a fit list when it counts will matter more than whether or not Lonergan fluffs things. Besides what are the other options ... at the moment he's the third best tall defender we have.

 

[OldStyle2007]

In the 2008 GF Lonergan kicked the first goal and then had a poster from a tight banana shot

He got a lot of his leads cut off by Hodge and that was because Bomber Thompson selected Stokes ahead of a much better decoy in Gamble (think Round 17 2008 win over Hawks)

Lonergan continued to bring the ball to front and square but we don't have any forwards who know how to crumb.

And there are bigger offenders from 2008 GF day (Mooney, Stokes, Ottens) so we should drop the GF argument

 

[jim boy]

I thought Lonners was reasonably ok last night, considering that our non-existant midfield pressure was allowing silver-service delivery to the crows forwards. I guess he was noticed becuase he was giving a go, rather than going missing.

 

[Magnum]

I do agree with TS. Whilst I can forgive him sometimes, he should be able to be accountable against guys from Adelaide. When finals come I will be holding my breath whenever the footy comes near him.

I sincerely hope he proves me wrong though.

 

[Vdubs]

Does anybody have an alternative/better option than Lonergan? We don't have the luxury of ready made tall defenders like Fisher, Gilbert, Blake, Dawson. Scary but he is our best TALL defender. He is not a dangerous liability. He is our key tall defender and we better get used to the fact that some of our players have limitations. We are beatable and we do not have champions in every position.

 

[Last Line Hero]

Does anybody have an alternative/better option than Lonergan? We don't have the luxury of ready made tall defenders like Fisher, Gilbert, Blake, Dawson. Scary but he is our best TALL defender. He is not a dangerous liability. He is our key tall defender and we better get used to the fact that some of our players have limitations. We are beatable and we do not have champions in every position.

Yes. I have a better option. His name is Matthew Scarlett.

So what how tall Lonergan is? That doesn't mean he defends tall players the best.

It's got nothing to do with height, and everything to do with defensive ability.

P.S: Blake is 190cm.

 

[Vdubs]

Yes. I have a better option. His name is Matthew Scarlett.

So what how tall Lonergan is? That doesn't mean he defends tall players the best.

It's got nothing to do with height, and everything to do with defensive ability.

P.S: Blake is 190cm.

so why is Lonergan selected the way he is? Partridge wants Scarlett on the best forward, so what's the story/ Same story Ablett out of midfield

 

[Vdubs]

Originally Posted by krisholio14
"**** a duck he has one ordinary night and that's it he's finished.

He wasn't the worst out there tonight regardless."

Exactly. A little bit of cool headed perspective would not hurt this discussion.

I would suggest some people should think about having a cooling off period of 24 hours before posting after a loss.

I thought that we were well beaten in the center and the Crows defense were able to completely shut our forward line down. Not the first team to do that this year.

The way the that ball came so quickly out of the center and into the Crows forward line is enough to expose the best of defensive players let alone Lonergan.
Lonergans' form has been very good this year.

The loss to the Crows was a team effort.

It is clear to me that Lonergan and Byrnes are the official Scape Goats on this forum.

And Blake and Mackie.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Does anyone think that maybe Scarlo's body is giving him more trouble than we know/realise (he has missed a few games this year due to injury) and thus Bomber is relieving him from the key post at times to try and get him through the year? I am trying to think of a reason he is doing this, because obviously it's not the best plan for our chances of winning every game, so maybe that's it? anyone have any better reasons as to why they think it's being done?

 

[pinion]

Does anyone think that maybe Scarlo's body is giving him more trouble than we know/realise (he has missed a few games this year due to injury) and thus Bomber is relieving him from the key post at times to try and get him through the year? I am trying to think of a reason he is doing this, because obviously it's not the best plan for our chances of winning every game, so maybe that's it? anyone have any better reasons as to why they think it's being done?

i think that's very speculative. i think we lost harley and probably went for a like-for-like replacement with a guy capable of playing as a third tall. coupled with that, we've always tried to free up our best ball-users, so as lonergan proved capable of breaking even against the best forwards we were content to free up taylor and scarlett

i tend to be happy with his defensive work, i just wish he didn't touch the ball.

 

[Last Line Hero]

so why is Lonergan selected the way he is? Partridge wants Scarlett on the best forward, so what's the story/ Same story Ablett out of midfield

He is selected the way he is because the Geelong coaching staff, for whatever reason, seem intent on freeing Scarlett to dictate where he plays and be creative. With Lonergan there they seem to think he grants us that flexibility because he's tall. It's got nothing to do with him being a better defender of tall players, that is just rediculous. My opinion is: their philososphy is that the side is dominant most weeks, Lonergan, even on a bad day probably won't get bags kicked on him because the side plays so well, and maybe Scarlett can become Geelong's Sam Fisher type player. Which, they fail to realise, is hurting the defence and will make us vulnerable in finals.