Male to Female Transgender in AFL Woman's League

[Allikat]

I don't see why it's an issue at all. If a transgender woman wants to play in the comp, and is good enough to play in the comp, then go for it. I used to play roller derby, which has for a long time had transgender women playing, and they're just like anyone else out there. Women's comps seem to be a lot more inclusive than mens because the simple fact is we don't really care about individual people's differences. Maybe it's because women's sports have traditionally been suppressed that we're just happy to get out there and play. People can be gay, straight, trans, coloured, whatever, as long as they're there for the right reasons and that's to play the game they love, and to play for their team.

The criteria that Spongebob put above were scientifically put together to ensure the evenness of competition if someone transitions and wants to play sport. They'd work just as well in AFLW. Maybe you should look at some scientific studies on the subject rather than getting all rargh offended over something that hasn't even happened yet.

 

[igon value]

2.2. The athlete must demonstrate that her total testosterone level in serum has been below 10 nmol/L for at least 12 months prior to her first competition.
2.3. The athlete's total testosterone level in serum must remain below 10 nmol/L throughout the period of desired eligibility to compete in the female category.

10nmol/L is more than three times the upper limit that natal females can produce naturally. There is serious debate about it being lowered for transgender women to that of natal females, but this is difficult to do in those who are born men.

 

[Orange Agent]

Its already happened at lower level and she has an account on here. Theres a main board thread about some of the issues she has faced.

There was a cyclist in the US last year that won a womans race after transitioning.

 

[Rusty Brookes]

I got no problems with it and seemingly neither do a large number of women playing.

http://www.sheppnews.com.au/2017/04/04/82218/proud-to-fulfil-obligation

 

[Komrade_Tiger]

10nmol/L is more than three times the upper limit that natal females can produce naturally. There is serious debate about it being lowered for transgender women to that of natal females, but this is difficult to do in those who are born men.

it's not actually. Transgender women actually have a lower testosterone level than natal females due to the fact that most if not all testosterone production is blocked

 

[Strahany]

A sustained low level of testosterone will help to minimise skeletal muscle mass to that of a genetic female, however it does not reverse everything. One key difference between a woman and a man who has undergone hormone therapy is their skeletal structure; the male skeleton is far superior in a physical setting than the female skeleton, and this doesn't disappear.

 

[iameviljez]

Firstly don't say it wont happen. Look at Caitlyn Jenner the guy was a superstar Olympic Gold medallist now a woman. Obviously too old to compete now
Just recently some US male to female transgender won a weightlifting award in a female competition
There are others now starting to compete.

So WHEN it happens not if in Women's AFL and some 6'+ beast of a guy goes transgender and dominates for 5 years and wins every award and GF how will you feel

I think you're making a bit of a straw man out of it. Trans and intersex athletes will challenge the binary of gender-divided competition, that's fine, you work your way through it much like Caster Semenya is now.

 

[cmndstab]

As long as there are sufficient rules as to how much testosterone etc are in her system then I have no issue with it. I've never really understood how it's any different from a cisgendered woman who happens to be born tall or with a naturally muscular frame.

Frankly, I imagine the vast majority of transgendered women are plenty busy trying to deal with the enormous stress and difficulty of transitioning in their late teens and early twenties to worry about playing elite sport, not to mention to extreme physical changes they have to put their body through in the process. If a transgendered woman is able to play elite sport during or after their transition and also meet appropriate guidelines then all power to her.

 

[bigblackboz]

Firstly, I don't necessarily agree with what I'm saying. It's simply repeating what others say.

I don't think you guys get it. Apparently, you are a bigot if you suggest she reduce her testosterone. All you need to say is "I identify as female" and then its game on. You don't need hormones, you don't need operations etc. The identity movement rejects any such implication that you do. Hence, a bloke could wake up tomorrow, say I feel female, and be considered a female. There is no way the AFL will reject this approach as it just leaves them open to being labelled bigots or have the social justice warriors vent their outrage on the AFL.

It will happen whether anyone likes it or not. I personally don't but the way society is going, you cannot fight this.

 

[Furn2]

It's a hard one because things like bones and ligaments don't change, bigger hands, longer levers, more height, you'd think that's got to be an advantage.

There's been studies that say it's not but when you have 45 year olds smashing weight lifting records by 20kgs and 50 year olds playing college basketball you've got to wonder.

 

[Komrade_Tiger]

Firstly, I don't necessarily agree with what I'm saying. It's simply repeating what others say.

I don't think you guys get it. Apparently, you are a bigot if you suggest she reduce her testosterone. All you need to say is "I identify as female" and then its game on. You don't need hormones, you don't need operations etc. The identity movement rejects any such implication that you do. Hence, a bloke could wake up tomorrow, say I feel female, and be considered a female. There is no way the AFL will reject this approach as it just leaves them open to being labelled bigots or have the social justice warriors vent their outrage on the AFL.

It will happen whether anyone likes it or not. I personally don't but the way society is going, you cannot fight this.

FFS NO its not!

to be able to play any sport at any level, the athlete has to meet a series of standards, the commonly used one is the Olympic standard.

2. Those who transition from male to female are eligible to compete in the female category under the following conditions:
2.1. The athlete has declared that her gender identity is female. The declaration cannot be changed, for sporting purposes, for a minimum of four years.
2.2. The athlete must demonstrate that her total testosterone level in serum has been below 10 nmol/L for at least 12 months prior to her first competition.
2.3. The athlete's total testosterone level in serum must remain below 10 nmol/L throughout the period of desired eligibility to compete in the female category.
2.4. Compliance with these conditions may be monitored by testing. In the event of non-compliance, the athlete’s eligibility for female competition will be suspended for 12 months.

totally able to wake up and say I identify as female.

If you don't know what the heck you are talking about, sit down and shut the heck up. This is getting ******* ridiculous

 

[radiojake]

this peanut of an OP has stated many times how he thinks AFLW is a joke - so don't understand why we're even humouring him with his ridiculous premise

as someone stated there is an entire thread on the main board regarding Kristi Miller's efforts to play women's footy in Broken Hill after she transitioned

 

[iameviljez]

Firstly, I don't necessarily agree with what I'm saying. It's simply repeating what others say.

I don't think you guys get it. Apparently, you are a bigot if you suggest she reduce her testosterone. All you need to say is "I identify as female" and then its game on. You don't need hormones, you don't need operations etc. The identity movement rejects any such implication that you do. Hence, a bloke could wake up tomorrow, say I feel female, and be considered a female. There is no way the AFL will reject this approach as it just leaves them open to being labelled bigots or have the social justice warriors vent their outrage on the AFL.

It will happen whether anyone likes it or not. I personally don't but the way society is going, you cannot fight this.

No, we *do* get it. You're inventing a scenario that effectively hasn't occurred and isn't realistic - someone who hasn't undergone hormone therapy or surgery, wanting to compete in a female competition. Trans people want to be called by their preferred gender and pronouns, but they're not selfish idiots and won't try and bully their way through elite women's sport without first proving they are on a level playing field.

 

[radiojake]

Firstly, I don't necessarily agree with what I'm saying. It's simply repeating what others say.

I'm not racist, but.....

 

[iameviljez]

I'm not racist, but.....

 

[ZingerB]

Firstly, I don't necessarily agree with what I'm saying. It's simply repeating what others say.

I don't think you guys get it. Apparently, you are a bigot if you suggest she reduce her testosterone. All you need to say is "I identify as female" and then its game on. You don't need hormones, you don't need operations etc. The identity movement rejects any such implication that you do. Hence, a bloke could wake up tomorrow, say I feel female, and be considered a female. There is no way the AFL will reject this approach as it just leaves them open to being labelled bigots or have the social justice warriors vent their outrage on the AFL.

It will happen whether anyone likes it or not. I personally don't but the way society is going, you cannot fight this.

Personally, I have a problem with Transgendered women playing physically brutal sports where they gain a direct advantage from having been born a man because it is ultimately dangerous for the other participants. Having said this, what you are saying is completely ignorant. The rules at the Olympics are extraordinarily strict (someone hinted at the need to reduce testosterone but I think you also have to be post op as well), and I don't see why the ALFW would adopt an approach that just let men say they're women one day and go out and beat up women the next. They have a legal obligation to keep players safe which would be greatly hindered by allowing biological men to compete against women. I personally don't think in these sorts of sports the playing field can ever be properly evened out because even after hormone therapy and the reduced muscle mass and bone density, these people are still physically superior to women. I also don't attribute much credibility to the claims that women have already said they are fine with it because it hasn't happened yet so they don't know what they are agreeing to. When a transgendered women started destroying people in UFC no one wanted to fight her, probably because she knocked someone out and broke her eye socket, and then someone else who fought her said she had never been hit that hard in her life. One of the arguments made against her being able to fight was she had male sized hands which is a huge advantage for punching and the same argument could be made for bumping and having a man's shoulders. Having said all of this, do you think maybe people call you bigoted and ignorant because you have adopted a less nuanced and well articulated view of the issue? I mean you made a flippant and ignorant comment, accompanied by a reference to SJW's. It's almost like you started from the position of 'I don't like transgendered people' and then offered a very poorly thought out and likely incorrect reason for complaining about it. All you needed to do was add 'cuck' to your comments and you would have been golden.

 

[The_Wookie]

Thread is full of insults and ignorance and short on any facts.

Theres an accurate and respectful discussion on this subject underway in kirsti 's AMA thread. Im going to refer the discussion to that thread for the time being. Ill think about opening a thread on this matter when we have some data.

 

[The_Wookie]

For the record

According to this article, The NSW/ACT AFL guidelines state clubs “must facilitate the participation by Transgender persons in Australian football with the gender with which they identify”.

Under the AFL Victoria Gender Regulations Section 4 part b -

People who have been through the Gender re -assignment process shall be deemed the gender as verified by the appropriate Victorian State Government documentation.

AFL Queenslands Transgender Policy is a holdout

AFL Queensland’s policy is that, whether or not a person is a recognised transgender person (that is, whether or not the person has altered their genitals or gender characteristics so that the person will be identified as a person of the opposite sex), it is not unlawful to prevent such a person from playing in a competition which is only available to persons of the opposite sex and where the strength, stamina or physique of the person is relevant to participation
in the activity.

There is little doubt that a transgender female could have a significant performance advantage playing football in a women’s competition as a result of previously being a male. Accordingly it is the position of AFL Queensland that to be eligible to play in a female only competition the player must be female, which would not include a gender re-assigned person.

The IOC’s criteria for transgender athletes requires them to identify as female and “demonstrate that her total testosterone level in serum has been below 10 (nanomoles per litre) for at least 12 months prior to her first competition”.