Covid-19 Welcome to Freedom

[PTizzle]

Sometimes it's important to to look at what politicians don't say as much as what they do.

For example, they don't mention that there's a fairly significant trend towards vaxxed being hospitalised and ICU over non-vaxxed.

From NSW data

COVID-19 monitor

Weekly risk assessment dashboard focused on COVID-19 in public health facilities of NSW.

aci.health.nsw.gov.au

It's almost like NSW's population is overwhelmingly made up of vaccinated people or something. This is really not a difficult concept to grasp.

A couple of quotes from state pressers today:

"The latest data from NSW Health shows that in this Omicron wave, if you are not fully vaccinated, you are six times more likely to end up in hospital and 13 times more likely to end up in ICU."

"If you are unvaccinated in Queensland, you are 19 times more likely to end up in hospital than someone who was triple vaccinated, Gerrard says.

If you are unvaccinated, in Queensland, you are 24 times more likely to end up in an intensive care unit than someone who was triple vaccinated."

 

[Chief]

A couple of quotes from state pressers today:

"The latest data from NSW Health shows that in this Omicron wave, if you are not fully vaccinated, you are six times more likely to end up in hospital and 13 times more likely to end up in ICU."

"If you are unvaccinated in Queensland, you are 19 times more likely to end up in hospital than someone who was triple vaccinated, Gerrard says.

If you are unvaccinated, in Queensland, you are 24 times more likely to end up in an intensive care unit than someone who was triple vaccinated."

sorted keen to see your response to this.

 

[Proper Gander]

I’m not

 

[Pessimistic]

They've said that the existing vaccine is effective against severe illness and death in Omicron (and previous) variants.

Which stacks up with the real-world results in a number of countries.

Of course, an updated vaccine would be preferable as it can continue to be effective against severe illness and death, but also work against mild illness and even transmission.

The rub is “because the ones we assured you were essentials just 6 months ago are now worthless (apparently)

 

[owen87]

are now worthless

Except they're not.

 

[Pessimistic]

Except they're not.

Good, cos that’s what I have.

 

[bzparkes]

It's amazing that people so keen to "do their own research" seem to be so bad at it.

That's what happens when stupid people embrace the mantra of 'Educate yourself'.

 

[the_interloper]

It's almost like NSW's population is overwhelmingly made up of vaccinated people or something. This is really not a difficult concept to grasp.

A couple of quotes from state pressers today:

"The latest data from NSW Health shows that in this Omicron wave, if you are not fully vaccinated, you are six times more likely to end up in hospital and 13 times more likely to end up in ICU."

"If you are unvaccinated in Queensland, you are 19 times more likely to end up in hospital than someone who was triple vaccinated, Gerrard says.

If you are unvaccinated, in Queensland, you are 24 times more likely to end up in an intensive care unit than someone who was triple vaccinated."

Yeah stats like that are pretty compelling

 

[Chief]

Yeah stats like that are pretty compelling

You will have to fight IRL anyone who says different.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Sometimes it's important to to look at what politicians don't say as much as what they do.

For example, they don't mention that there's a fairly significant trend towards vaxxed being hospitalised and ICU over non-vaxxed.

From NSW data

COVID-19 monitor

Weekly risk assessment dashboard focused on COVID-19 in public health facilities of NSW.

aci.health.nsw.gov.au

Surely people are better at basic mathematics than this.

I put it to you, that if ALL non-vaccinated people died when they caught Covid, and only a handful of vaccinated people did, then eventually there would be 100% vaccinated people in Hospital. If that was the case would you recommend going unvaccinated?
Its the argument you are using .

 

[Joffaboy]

Sorry paywall

Try this one (I mean it only takes a short Google search to find this happening across the world)

NSW Covid-19 update: the 5% of population who are unvaccinated make up 50% of ICU patients – video

'The numbers don’t lie’, says NSW premier as 5% of the NSW population is making up 50% of those in ICU

www.theguardian.com

Australia news LIVE: 2022 Australian Open to begin after Novak Djokovic’s deportation; tsunami warning cancelled for east coast; total COVID-19 cases continue to rise

Novak Djokovic won’t be defending his Australian Open title today, Anthony Albanese has outlined his election pitch to voters and total COVID-19 cases continue to rise across the country.

www.theage.com.au

Victorian Chief Health Officer Brett Sutton said the Omicron variant had changed the landscape of the pandemic and highlighted the importance of vaccination.

While vaccines do not offer complete protection against getting infected with Omicron, Professor Sutton said immunisation had shown to be effective in preventing serious illness.

Victorian Chief Health Officer, Professor Brett Sutton.CREDIT:LUIS ENRIQUE ASCUI

“The protection of someone who’s tripled vaccinated compared to someone who’s unvaccinated is several orders of magnitude difference,” he said.

“Someone who’s in their 20s or teens who’s unvaccinated has the same risk of being hospitalised as someone who’s gotten a booster dose or third dose is in their 80s.”

Professor Sutton said the nature of the virus meant Australia would continue to experience waves of infections in the future, highlighting the importance of vaccination and boosters.

There are more than 174,000 vaccination appointments available across Victoria over the next month, including about 34,000 slots for children.

Of 125,000 vaccine bookings made in the past seven days in the state, 83,000 were for people to receive their booster shot.

Another 39,000 appointments were for children aged between five and 11 to receive their first dose. Almost 4000 children have also been booked in to receive their first dose.

 

[Opine]

Wouldn’t say for definite if a third shot was useful. I read do it if your in a risky group

As reported earlier this morning: of the 17 deaths in NSW, 16 hadn’t had a booster. Having your booster seems very useful.

 

[Ben The Donkey]

You will have to fight IRL anyone who says different.

Advocating violence there, Chief?

It's interesting to see the devolution of a purportedly-free society in the face of immediate threat, real or imagined.
Sow fear. Isolate a subclass with divergent beliefs as a focus for fear. Make them easily identifiable. Incite hatred. Ensure the subclass have less social privileges than the mainstream. Set the mainstream population as an adversarial group, get them to do most of the policing for you.

Watered down or not, a yellow star is a yellow star.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Advocating violence there, Chief?

It's interesting to see the devolution of a purportedly-free society in the face of immediate threat, real or imagined.
Sow fear. Isolate a subclass with divergent beliefs as a focus for fear. Make them easily identifiable. Incite hatred. Ensure the subclass have less social privileges than the mainstream. Set the mainstream population as an adversarial group, get them to do most of the policing for you.

Watered down or not, a yellow star is a yellow star.

Gawd

 

[Clems Knee]

Advocating violence there, Chief?

It's interesting to see the devolution of a purportedly-free society in the face of immediate threat, real or imagined.
Sow fear. Isolate a subclass with divergent beliefs as a focus for fear. Make them easily identifiable. Incite hatred. Ensure the subclass have less social privileges than the mainstream. Set the mainstream population as an adversarial group, get them to do most of the policing for you.

Watered down or not, a yellow star is a yellow star.

You are being both offensive here, and drawing a terrible analogy.
Nobody is making you wear an identifier on your clothes. Nobody is trying to hurt you. You are the ones putting yourself and others at risk by refusing to get vaccinated. And if you actually start using your brain and get vaccinated, you will rejoin normal society.
If you want a fairer analogy, go back to Mary Mallon.

 

[Big Bryza]

They've said that the existing vaccine is effective against severe illness and death in Omicron (and previous) variants.

Which stacks up with the real-world results in a number of countries.

Of course, an updated vaccine would be preferable as it can continue to be effective against severe illness and death, but also work against mild illness and even transmission.

Source?

 

[Pessimistic]

As reported earlier this morning: of the 17 deaths in NSW, 16 hadn’t had a booster. Having your booster seems very useful.

I’m just talking about what the head of Pfizer said

 

[Pessimistic]

They've said that the existing vaccine is effective against severe illness and death in Omicron (and previous) variants.

Which stacks up with the real-world results in a number of countries.

Of course, an updated vaccine would be preferable as it can continue to be effective against severe illness and death, but also work against mild illness and even transmission.

Many of those countries have significantly higher herd immunity than us (obtained at a huge cost in lives)

 

[Ben The Donkey]

You are being both offensive here, and drawing a terrible analogy.
Nobody is making you wear an identifier on your clothes. Nobody is trying to hurt you. You are the ones putting yourself and others at risk by refusing to get vaccinated. And if you actually start using your brain and get vaccinated, you will rejoin normal society.
If you want a fairer analogy, go back to Mary Mallon.

I am vaccinated. See how easily you leapt to an assumption based upon the divisiveness being encouraged, even in here?
I'm apparently more capable of entertaining an idea without necessarily embracing it, too. As well as not having a laugh when someone is advocating violence against a segment of the population for not having the same beliefs as they do.

I do find it interesting to see how the higher ideals of freedom and independence in a society can become eroded in the face of threat to the stability of that society, and in the face of the kind of bovine indifference to that which you're displaying right now.
That's being offensive. And I'm not even telling you to punch anyone.

 

[Clems Knee]

I am vaccinated. See how easily you leapt to an assumption based upon the divisiveness being encouraged, even in here?
I'm apparently more capable of entertaining an idea without necessarily embracing it, too. As well as not having a laugh when someone is advocating violence against a segment of the population for not having the same beliefs as they do.

I do find it interesting to see how the higher ideals of freedom and independence in a society can become eroded in the face of threat to the stability of that society, and in the face of the kind of bovine indifference to that which you're displaying right now.
That's being offensive. And I'm not even telling you to punch anyone.

It doesn’t matter whether you are vaccinated or not. You drew an appalling link between the unvaxxed and the Jews of the Holocaust. The only reason for this must be an indictment on your character. I think it more likely that you are also a liar, ie you are not vaccinated.

As to accusing me of bovine indifference; not at all. I have and will continue to actively encourage anti-vaxxers to crawl out of the rabbit hole, and take steps to safeguard their own lives, the lives of their loved ones and the lives of their wider community.

 

[sr36]

I think it's a deliberate ploy by the media to stoke the fire on both sides of the argument. For example, The Age pushed a story - Could Omicron be our way out? The very next day they were running the opposition angle.

You shouldn't read any of the mainstream media as objective sources of information - more as expressions of their corporate interests.

This made me chuckle. A media outlet publishing thoughts from two different viewpoints, as a criticism....

 

[Ben The Donkey]

It doesn’t matter whether you are vaccinated or not. You drew an appalling link between the unvaxxed and the Jews of the Holocaust. The only reason for this must be an indictment on your character. I think it more likely that you are also a liar, ie you are not vaccinated.

As to accusing me of bovine indifference; not at all. I have and will continue to actively encourage anti-vaxxers to crawl out of the rabbit hole, and take steps to safeguard their own lives, the lives of their loved ones and the lives of their wider community.

Then why did you mention my assumed vaccination status, if not to insult and belittle? Why are you having a laugh with Chief about punching people who don't see things the way you do? And now you're throwing around accusations of me being a liar as well. My character? snort.

One segment of the population, a minority, is being vilified for holding different beliefs than others. That segment of the population is currently being denied the same social freedoms as the mainstream. The gulf between wealthy and not-so-wealthy has widened considerably during the pandemic, and a lot of people are gaining power and money out of it... using the politics of fear, you and your ilk, to do it (and to police it). We're being asked for documentation in order to walk into a pub. We can't hold down a job without first proving we've been stuck with needles. We're turning on those who dissent.
Recant. Recant, and you will be forgiven, and may take your place in paradise.

The virus itself has become almost a background issue, in the face of wider social and economic implications and out of an amplified, state-endorsed atmosphere of fear.
The parallels are real. This is a part of the reason totalitarian states arise to begin with, and yet there are many who don't understand how it can happen, how it was that people were so accepting of increased state control over their lives... often at the expense of others. It can happen quickly, or it can happen slowly.

That bovine indifference I mentioned was a reference to your apparent disregard that a significant part of Australia's social values, cohesion and economic prosperity, are being eroded in the face of a threat... out of fear for your own hide.
I do think the anti-vaxxers have a place in society. Not just in these circumstances, but in a more general, philosophical, sense. The dissenters, right or wrong, remind us all that there are other considerations, other threats we need to guard against.
It's not a coincidence that those who feel the urge to control society under the guise of altruism end up doing the most damage to it.
Sssh. Lie still. It's for your own good.

I wonder where the greater danger really lies.
That's a genuine concern on my part. Mostly an internal discussion with myself on where the right balance can be struck between public (personal) safety, and the erosion of ideology and values.

 

[Chief]

someone is advocating violence against a segment of the population

 

[Clems Knee]

Then why did you mention my assumed vaccination status, if not to insult and belittle? Why are you having a laugh with Chief about punching people who don't see things the way you do? And now you're throwing around accusations of me being a liar as well. My character? snort.

One segment of the population, a minority, is being vilified for holding different beliefs than others. That segment of the population is currently being denied the same social freedoms as the mainstream. The gulf between wealthy and not-so-wealthy has widened considerably during the pandemic, and a lot of people are gaining power and money out of it... using the politics of fear, you and your ilk, to do it (and to police it). We're being asked for documentation in order to walk into a pub. We can't hold down a job without first proving we've been stuck with needles. We're turning on those who dissent.
Recant. Recant, and you will be forgiven, and may take your place in paradise.

The virus itself has become almost a background issue, in the face of wider social and economic implications and out of an amplified, state-endorsed atmosphere of fear.
The parallels are real. This is a part of the reason totalitarian states arise to begin with, and yet there are many who don't understand how it can happen, how it was that people were so accepting of increased state control over their lives... often at the expense of others. It can happen quickly, or it can happen slowly.

That bovine indifference I mentioned was a reference to your apparent disregard that a significant part of Australia's social values, cohesion and economic prosperity, are being eroded in the face of a threat... out of fear for your own hide.
I do think the anti-vaxxers have a place in society. Not just in these circumstances, but in a more general, philosophical, sense. The dissenters, right or wrong, remind us all that there are other considerations, other threats we need to guard against.
It's not a coincidence that those who feel the urge to control society under the guise of altruism end up doing the most damage to it.
Sssh. Lie still. It's for your own good.

I wonder where the greater danger really lies.
That's a genuine concern on my part. Mostly an internal discussion with myself on where the right balance can be struck between public (personal) safety, and the erosion of ideology and values.

Wow, what a rant.

I did not mention your assumed vaccination status. I simply assumed your vaccination status, based on your overreaction to an innocuous comment, and your offensive reference to the yellow star - which looks to me like a standard talking point among the lunatic unvaxxed fringe. I find the easy misuse of nazi symbology to be incredibly ignorant and disrespectful. I think people expose their true character when they do that.

The divisiveness is certainly being encouraged by the antivax crowd. Antivax campaigners have threatened to kill medical professionals, simply because they give sound medical advice.

There are no parallels between how unvaxxed are being treated and how the Jews were treated in pre war Germany. You claim that this is a sign of a totalitarian state. No. It’s a sign that there are a small number of people who are prepared to act selfishly and * the rest of the population. As a result, responsible leaders have to act, to protect the population, including those who are most in danger.

 

[Pessimistic]

Then why did you mention my assumed vaccination status, if not to insult and belittle? Why are you having a laugh with Chief about punching people who don't see things the way you do? And now you're throwing around accusations of me being a liar as well. My character? snort.

One segment of the population, a minority, is being vilified for holding different beliefs than others. That segment of the population is currently being denied the same social freedoms as the mainstream. The gulf between wealthy and not-so-wealthy has widened considerably during the pandemic, and a lot of people are gaining power and money out of it... using the politics of fear, you and your ilk, to do it (and to police it). We're being asked for documentation in order to walk into a pub. We can't hold down a job without first proving we've been stuck with needles. We're turning on those who dissent.
Recant. Recant, and you will be forgiven, and may take your place in paradise.

The virus itself has become almost a background issue, in the face of wider social and economic implications and out of an amplified, state-endorsed atmosphere of fear.
The parallels are real. This is a part of the reason totalitarian states arise to begin with, and yet there are many who don't understand how it can happen, how it was that people were so accepting of increased state control over their lives... often at the expense of others. It can happen quickly, or it can happen slowly.

That bovine indifference I mentioned was a reference to your apparent disregard that a significant part of Australia's social values, cohesion and economic prosperity, are being eroded in the face of a threat... out of fear for your own hide.
I do think the anti-vaxxers have a place in society. Not just in these circumstances, but in a more general, philosophical, sense. The dissenters, right or wrong, remind us all that there are other considerations, other threats we need to guard against.
It's not a coincidence that those who feel the urge to control society under the guise of altruism end up doing the most damage to it.
Sssh. Lie still. It's for your own good.

I wonder where the greater danger really lies.
That's a genuine concern on my part. Mostly an internal discussion with myself on where the right balance can be struck between public (personal) safety, and the erosion of ideology and values.

Kicking out a tennis player cos a PM was clumsy with his rhetoric, using emergency powers enacted to deal with terrorism