Maric - The Fighter

[Vessel]

All this trade talk about Jacobs and his ability to walk into 1R. There not being a place in the side for both Maric and Jacobs... has got be me thinking.

Will Jacobs really walk straight into our 1R?

It seems every year, we have a couple of rucks who are "better" than Maric on paper. Every year Maric out performs them, not because he is taller, not because he is more athletic, hell not even because he has better skills.

He beats them because he is a fighter! He has the right ticker. I think 1R will not be as easily Jacobs as we might think.

 

[Wood_Duck]

All this trade talk about Jacobs and his ability to walk into 1R. There not being a place in the side for both Maric and Jacobs... has got be me thinking.

Will Jacobs really walk straight into our 1R?

It seems every year, we have a couple of rucks who are "better" than Maric on paper. Every year Maric out performs them, not because he is taller, not because he is more athletic, hell not even because he has better skills.

He beats them because he is a fighter! He has the right ticker. I think 1R will not be as easily Jacobs as we might think.

Completely agree, hes been written off way too lightly in this whole trade discussion. I like Jacobs, but the notion he will walk into the number 1 ruck spot is complete BS.

 

[wizardmiller17]

I would say Jacobs and Maric are very similar.
I would actually rather Maric have the no.1 ruck spot because
1. He was showing a lot of promise towards the end of the season whereas
Jacobs played one good game against an Injured Mumford.
2. Jacobs will cost us an early draft pick.
3. I just like Maric more.

 

[King Elvis]

I love Ivan.

As I said in another thread - his blogs are top shelf, and would easily increase his worth on the open market.

He flattened out a lot this year, but he was sensational at the star; I honestly think we worked him into the ground so badly that his performances fell away.

I like the idea of Jacobs, but with the new rule changes, I'm not sure if he's that important to us.

Maric is well loved by the Club, and is useful in general play (not awesome, but useful), especially when he can fill a hole with his good marking.

I wonder if Ivan could play the mobile ruckman role with any impact, because he's awesome.

Maric/SMcK is what I see as our ideal ruck pairing this year, with Moran in the mix as well.

 

[Dandy_GO]

I agree. Maric was playing really well at the start of the year. Remember when Craigy said he "could become elite"?
He's a little older than Jacobs, but the best is still to come from Ivan.
He fairly consistently beats the worse rucks in the league, and is competitive with the better ones. He's an AFL standard ruck for sure.
We could use Jacobs because we'd be shafted if Ivan goes down (with Griff on his way and question marks over Moran given that he hasn't played in forever) but Sam won't automatically be our first ruck.
Also, that time Ivan charged Clinton Jones at the end of the season was badass.

 

[dplggr47]

i actually think, despite the new substitution rule, Craigy will still play 2 ruckman (Maric and Jacobs).

 

[Pariah]

Drago's one of my favourites. At times this year he showed improvement until being our sole ruck took it's toll on him. If we get Jacobs I reckon we will see even more improvement in Ivan.

 

[TheDoctor11]

When Ivan gets fired up, it's a thing of beauty.

 

[woopedazz]

i actually think, despite the new substitution rule, Craigy will still play 2 ruckman (Maric and Jacobs).

Agree 100%

Bench will be 3 midfields/players from other positions capable of filling in as a mid.

 

[Kickin_Goals]

You know what I see with Jacobs now.
A 5th rounder reserve ruck thrown in next to Marc Murphy and Chris Judd as well as a great deal of very skilled quick crumbing forwards, who's claim to fame is hits to advantage % and a losing final where Judd turned it on and he was up against an invalid.
There are a bunch of glaring anomalies right there that are not sympathetic to the on-field environment to be found at Adelaide.

Maric and Smack is what we should be looking at and our 2nd rounder should be used on running depth.
If Jacobs bobbles up in the PSD to us all the better but if not, meh.

 

[Crows Feet]

Are we chasing Jacobs because we are losing Griff and want to keep some ruck depth?

It makes you feel for Maric that the club constantly seems to sell him short.

 

[footy4ever]

When Ivan gets fired up, it's a thing of beauty.

I can still picture that shirtfront against Saints, went through like a steam train and indeed it was a thing of beauty.

Haven't seen enough of Jacobs, but the way the carlton flogs bang on, you'd reckon he'll be better than Sandilands Cox and Jolly all in the same body.

 

[WAG]

Jacobs at 300K+ per year (if you can believe media speculation) would be an expensive reserve to Maric. If the club goes down the path of getting Jacobs, then big Ivan could well see himself as number 2 pretty quick.

FWIW I think Maric offers us more around the ground and his spirit in awesome, however if we do get Jacobs, then he has the potential to give our midfield better service than Maric.

 

[Kickin_Goals]

Jacobs at 300K+ per year (if you can believe media speculation) would be an expensive reserve to Maric. If the club goes down the path of getting Jacobs, then big Ivan could well see himself as number 2 pretty quick.

FWIW I think Maric offers us more around the ground and his spirit in awesome, however if we do get Jacobs, then he has the potential to give our midfield better service than Maric.

The basis of that opinion is a bunch of flogs with manipulated statistics....
It's been shown how good you can make griffin look if you go about selecting specific games to suit.

Is anyone worried about griffin going?
Should anyone worry about missing jacobs?
No
Maric outperformed Jacobs without a shadow of a doubt this season, with lesser mid-field followers. Even in games between both clubs, even when Carlton won by a large margin...
Maybe Jacobs develops maybe hes another that fails within our squad.

 

[Glenno23]

When Ivan gets fired up, it's a thing of beauty.

 

[dplggr47]

that moment of celebration after his goal epitomises our love for Ivan. he's passionate about the club and shows it on the field.

 

[fabs33]

Maric is all heart, passionate about the club and his teammates. If we are lucky enough to win a premiership in the near future he will be one the most deserving of a premiership medal.

Furthermore if we have to compare Maric and Jacobs we should take into account fatigue, both in individual games and that which was accumulated throughout the season. I think we can all agree that a player can produce his best more frequently when he doesn’t have to do it too often or for too long, and that is exactly what Maric tried to do for us this season.

 

[King Elvis]

Agree completely fabs.

I worry we're vastly under-rated Maric due to his performances at the latter end of the year, when he'd been single-handedly carrying our ruck duties for most of the season.

Forget Jacobs, Maric and SMcK/Moran please.

 

[AFC979810]

Agree completely fabs.

I worry we're vastly under-rated Maric due to his performances at the latter end of the year, when he'd been single-handedly carrying our ruck duties for most of the season.

Forget Jacobs, Maric and SMcK/Moran please.

I would be very surprised if Jacobs is first ruck next year. Maric is just about to start entering his prime and I think had a very good season (considering the lack of ruck support)...

I really think everyone has gotten themselves a little bit too excited over Sauce... I agree that he is a great long term project and will contribute to the AFC, but will not have a huge impact in 2011...

I think many people have their 'Brodie Martin' glasses on for Sauce.... He had a great game against Sydney in the qualifying final (but hey, even average players can have good games - I remember Jericho kicking 4 goals against Essendon)... but has been reasonable for Carlton.

He has been in the system for 4 years and has played 17 games and averaged about 19 hitouts a game.... (Maric played 21 games in 2010 and averaged just 18 hitouts a game)...

With the new rules I would like to see Maric at number 1 ruckman and then depending on opponent have the 2nd ruck be between Sellar/Moran/Jacobs.

 

[Vader]

I would be very surprised if Jacobs is first ruck next year. Maric is just about to start entering his prime and I think had a very good season (considering the lack of ruck support)...

I really think everyone has gotten themselves a little bit too excited over Sauce... I agree that he is a great long term project and will contribute to the AFC, but will not have a huge impact in 2011...

I did an analysis in one of the Jacobs/Walker trade threads, comparing the two (Maric & Jacobs) in the head-to-head contests.

Jacobs played 13 games this year, against 12 different clubs (he played 2 games against Sydney). Maric also played games against those 12 clubs.

Of the 12 head-to-head comparisons, I scored Maric with 4 wins, Jacobs 3 with 5 draws. There is very little separating the two of them.

Jacobs averaged significantly more hitouts than Maric this year - and Carlton fans are quick to point out that he has a very high percentage of hitouts going to advantage (to be fair, Maric is no slouch in this department either). To a certain extent this was driven by the fact that he was Carlton's 2nd ruckman for most of the season - up against the likes of Kepler Bradley and Tom Hawkins. Having a genuine ruck up against a part timer will usually result in the ruck having inflated figures as a result.

In contrast, Maric spent most of the year as our #1 ruckman, aside from a 2-3 week period when Griffin took the mantle. Maric' stats suffered (in comparison to Jacobs') because he was up against the big boys, rather than the lower quality backups. Maric' stats also suffered, particularly in the latter half of the season, because he was sharing ruck duties with 2 other ruckmen (Griffin/Tippett then Sellar/Tippett), while Jacobs shared with only 1 other ruckman. Even if that resulted in a 40/40/20 split, the difference between 40% ruck time & 50% ruck time is the difference between 16-18 hitouts and 20-23 hitouts per game.

I expect the battle for Adelaide's ruck supremacy to be an epic contest between these two players. Even allowing for the changes to the interchange rules, I expect these two to play all 22 games in 2011 with Adelaide's ruck division re-gaining much of the respect it has lost in recent years as a result.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

I expect the battle for Adelaide's ruck supremacy to be an epic contest between these two players. Even allowing for the changes to the interchange rules, I expect these two to play all 22 games in 2011 with Adelaide's ruck division re-gaining much of the respect it has lost in recent years as a result.

I'm assuming everyone believes Moran's injury is terminal to his career but if it isn't I'd say he also needs to be mentioned in this analysis surely?

Looking at games they have been selected as rucks:

Moran (at age 22) averaged 17.2 hitouts, 10.8 disposals, 3.6 marks, 1.9 tackles in 2009.

Maric, with more experience (71 games, only 14 of which were played under age 22), averages 15.8 hitouts, 9.3 disposals, 2.6 marks, 2.4 tackles.

Hmmm.


To be unfair to Moran, lets look at Maric' last season as an older 24yo, with a lot more experience behind him: average of 17.6 hitouts, 10.3 disposals, 3.0 marks, 2.0 tackles.

Wow! A less than 1 differential between the players comparing the older, more experienced Maric with the younger, less experienced Moran.

On top of the raw stats, most would agree Moran has the better potential as an 'around the ground' player, which should be more evident if he builds on his 17 games experience.

Given that, Moran is a better 2R...and i know I'm in the minority, but if he strings some games together, I've no doubt he could be a better 1R than Maric also. (I'm not talking early on in 2011, after an 18 month lay off, but after a few matches to blow away the cobwebs...should be about the right time mid season to take over from a tired Maric).


One thing i do agree on, whether it be Jacobs, Moran, Maric, Sellar, McKernan or Tippett...i predict the AFC ruck division as a whole unit will stack up quite nicely against most opposition in 2011.

 

[Vader]

I certainly haven't written Moran off just yet. However, after 18 months out due to knee injuries he's very much an unknown quantity. The "joker in the pack" if you like.

Maric & Jacobs are know quantities.

 

[sydney_crow]

I posted elsewhere a few weeks back that I enjoyed watching Paul Roos discussing Sydney's trading philosophies On the Couch and one of the points I picked up is that they endeavour to bring in players who will be in their first 22 (now reduced to 21).

This immediately creates opportunity leading to confidence and that is a key ingredient of their success.

I believe that strategy and think that if we, having secured Jacobs, don't play him at all, or even as only a 2nd ruck [a position which most believe is now extinct due to sub rules], then it will defeat the whole purpose.

We've seen what Maric has to offer over the past few seasons and you wouldn't expect that he's going to improve dramatically...I'd be putting Jacobs in as 1st ruck in round one and saying you've got the first 6-8 rounds to show us what you've got...I think he would surprise on the upside and be an upgrade on Maric (all due respect to him and his efforts which are unquestioned).

 

[Vessel]

We've seen what Maric has to offer over the past few seasons and you wouldn't expect that he's going to improve dramatically...

Actually this is where you are wrong. Maric is only now just entering his prime as a ruckman (Jacobs is still a few years from it). What we saw at the start of the season was huge improvement in Maric which than tailed off due most likely to fatigue.

The fact is either of them could end up being the better ruckman next season, we probably will not know until half way through the season (injuries permitting).

Jacobs potential is higher but not as much higher as people around here are believing. He was fourth ruck at Carlton for a good reason.

I am more and more coming around to the idea of playing them both 60/40 for the first half of the season. (Sometimes Jacobs 60, sometimes Maric 60) I do not see Sellar or SMACK being ready to go at the start of the season. Neither of them have done anything to make me believe they can hold down ruck for 30% of an AFL game and be at all useful the other 70%.

 

[macca23]

I posted elsewhere a few weeks back that I enjoyed watching Paul Roos discussing Sydney's trading philosophies On the Couch and one of the points I picked up is that they endeavour to bring in players who will be in their first 22 (now reduced to 21).

This immediately creates opportunity leading to confidence and that is a key ingredient of their success.

I believe that strategy and think that if we, having secured Jacobs, don't play him at all, or even as only a 2nd ruck [a position which most believe is now extinct due to sub rules], then it will defeat the whole purpose.

We've seen what Maric has to offer over the past few seasons and you wouldn't expect that he's going to improve dramatically...I'd be putting Jacobs in as 1st ruck in round one and saying you've got the first 6-8 rounds to show us what you've got...I think he would surprise on the upside and be an upgrade on Maric (all due respect to him and his efforts which are unquestioned).

I agree with all of the above

Jacobs was drafted for a need as our #1 ruckman and has been told that.

Adelaide did not go through a harrowing trade week and end up giving up 2 draft picks to have a player that sits on the sidelines either for most or all of the time.

I have the utmost respect for Maric who always gives 100% but he is undersized for a lead ruck.

What Maric has to do is to add more strings to his bow e.g. the ability to rest up forward and clunk a few big pack marks for goals.

I would think we'd try the 2 ruck system in the pre-season games to see whether that is feasible now that we have this ridiculous substitute situation being brought in.