Roast Martin, otten, brown, VB, mackay

[weekend at bernies]

Absolutely woeful games. Otten, Martin and brown especially. Our captain is terrible. Surely some of these guys will go out next week for crouch, wright etc. otten was so bad I can't comprehend

Ottens 1st bad game of the year, give him a break!!!

Brown is young, still has to work on his consistency!!

 

[BACCS]

Then you're saying that its impossible to recruit or select good leaders - I don't believe that at all as I do it regularly. But happy to agree to disagree.

Fair enough mate, you are making some good points. I don't agree with them, but they are solid points. Leadership is so subjective though, I guess that's why it divides opinion so easily!

 

[BACCS]

Missed the game due to work but interesting to see Otten named in our best in today's paper...

I will take this forums word on his game rather than the papers...

To be honest, we always play crap in the wet. I think minimal changes this week although Crouch will need to come back in

Did win 3 of the quarters though mate, it was simply the 2nd quarter which cost us. 4.3 to 1.0 kills you in a 9 to 8 goal game. Played the conditions fine, just made fundamental errors in that 2nd quarter and most of the day e.g. letting the ball get over the back in defense. I reckon 3 or 4 of their goals nearly came from the square or a dinky soccer off the ground.

 

[Kickin_Goals]

Ottens 1st bad game of the year, give him a break!!!

Brown is young, still has to work on his consistency!!

He wasn't exactly bad though by his standards that was typical.
He dropped a slippery chest mark and that prolly sealed the game for people's view of his performance and that it became the last goal of the game.
He was quite clean he fell over a bit, but otherwise the issue being he doesn't give much offensively for the role he's playing and there is plenty of negators back there already.

 

[Crowbots are dead]

Massive over reaction to Ottens game. He was one who tried his guts out all day. Was in the best players in the Advertiser and I tend to agree. People are remembering a few skill errors in the wet but he wasn't alone. He is really important to our back 6 IMO.

As for VB when you look at his stats he is WAY down on tackles this year and he had the least amount of 'pressure act's on the weekend from our midfielders. Again I ask the question is there room for VB in a premiership team midfield? If the answer is no (and Im starting to think that it is) then he cant continue to be captain beyond this year as we need to ensure he can make way for others in the centre (Crouch, Wright, Smith etc..) if need be. I hope he can recapture his form from a few years ago but he is really out of sorts at the moment.

 

[weekend at bernies]

He wasn't exactly bad though by his standards that was typical.
He dropped a slippery chest mark and that prolly sealed the game for people's view of his performance and that it became the last goal of the game.
He was quite clean he fell over a bit, but otherwise the issue being he doesn't give much offensively for the role he's playing and there is plenty of negators back there already.

Id much rather someone that will defend and constantly spoil, than somone like Reilly who is suppose to be setting play up..

 

[King Elvis]

Smith is coming back from injury, isn't in great form, yet, statistically, is almost identical to VB.

He was our best players in the finals last year, and he's a kid.

He has multiple attributes and weapons which make him a stand out player.

He's offensively fantastic, and defensively, he's been use on people like Adam Goodes, with impressive results.

Smith is already at least as good as VB (I'd argue better), and will be in front by the end of the year.

Half of VB's problem is the emergence of guys like Smith - as a result, we're struggling to find a role for VB, which is affecting his performances.

Anyone commenting on van Berlo actually met the man ??

Very impressive individual both in a group environment and one on one

I've met him, and I agree completely with the bold.

I like the guy.

My concern is that his performances have stagnated, at best (realistically, they've gone backwards), and he was a mid-range player to start with.

If he continues to struggle (and I don't rate his game on the weekend), what happens to the Captain?

People may start to judge him more fairly when he isn't the captain, as the majority of supporters believes the captain must always be the best player (despite having zero knowledge about leadership).

You have no idea what people on here do for a living, or what their level experience/expertise is in, in any given field. Hell, you've had an executive recruiter tell you exactly what he does and how he views it - surely he's qualified to discuss it?

Considering you're commenting on leadership, with stating that everybody else has 'zero knowledge' about it, then you obviously have a lot of experience and know a lot about it; maybe you can educate the rest of us?

You're right thought, he will be judged more fairly when he isn't Captain - he'll be judged as a mid-range player who is good when he has a role to play that suits him.

 

[fairfooty]

The only comment I can find which even goes close to defining what leadership is about is the following quote from Brett Burton, taken on the day that VB was first appointed Captain:

"Leadership is about the way you influence people and how you can positively affect people with your behaviour.​

And thats not a bad summary at all. (Good to see he agrees with me! ) As BACCS said leadership is very subjective - and is quite contextual as well. While I'm not overly impressed with VBs leadership skills, others obviously are and that's OK too. BACCS interesting question about why do his team members rate him so highly? It could be they are rating the 'nice guy' and 'damn fine footballer' rather than his leadership - not sure. Teams are often loyal to leaders, even the not so good ones particularly if they are 'nice'. And to add my two bobs worth, IMO anyone who says he isn't 22 is watching a different game. I rate him really highly as a footballer - just prefer others as leaders.

 

[1970crow]

I'm not fussed either way if VB hands over the captaincy to Danger or Sloaney and the end of the season, probably the best time to do it if it's gonna happen. People may start to judge him more fairly when he isn't the captain, as the majority of supporters believes the captain must always be the best player (despite having zero knowledge about leadership). But what you said is exactly my point, the calls of 'VB isn't an AFL standard footballer', 'VB isn't best 22' are utter loads of crap.

Impressive, the first time I've heard that a captain must be the best footballer in a team is in your post. If you're going to have a go at people at least have the courtesy to address their actual opinions. You seem to be equally blinded by the fact he is captain. In terms of his position in the 22 based on output, he is ahead of a few players, but it may not take long for those numbers to dry up. He's no different to any other footballer in that sense. Regardless of his captaincy status that you seem to hold so dear.

 

[Mattrox]

As for VB when you look at his stats he is WAY down on tackles this year and he had the least amount of 'pressure act's on the weekend from our midfielders. Again I ask the question is there room for VB in a premiership team midfield? If the answer is no (and Im starting to think that it is) then he cant continue to be captain beyond this year as we need to ensure he can make way for others in the centre (Crouch, Wright, Smith etc..) if need be. I hope he can recapture his form from a few years ago but he is really out of sorts at the moment.

You can't really ask a question ans answer it yourself if the question were genuine in the first place.....

It's funny how football is a team sport and are Winning team and a team full of stars are sometimes not the same. Posters focus on one player or another and say "we can't win a premiership with X in the team".
What crap, its about a team performance. If players who are down on form return to their 2012 best combined with the awesome young talent the Crows are a genuine finals chance. The problem this year is a team problem and not an individual player problem.

Anyone who says the fall out of Tippett saga and the Bailey suspension can be shielded from the players and not effect the preseason has rocks in their heads. We had one of the worst off seasons in a long time. Combine that with the late start some of our players had due to burn out last year (Jacobs in particular) and we arrive at the current situation.

Having said that it is not all doom and gloom and we are well into the season now. The off season stuff is well behind us and it is up to each player to step up now. We have seen Dougie step up this year and has been consistently outstanding. Vince has turned his form around after being sent to take a good hard look at himself. Dangerfield started slow but seems to be building. Talia had a slow start on the comback trail from his broken arm, but seems to have that sorted out. Rutten has been a rock. Sloane has been his awesome self. We have a bunch of young players handling themselves very well.

In a wet and ugly game it is unfair to single out Brown and Otten. Martin has had no AFL footy this year and is a depth player. VB had a stinker overall, but he also was key in a couple of passages when it mattered.

The team will learn from this. Our side is not a basketcase, and the future is bright. Up with the boot staps and on to the next game.

 

[Crowbots are dead]

You can't really ask a question ans answer it yourself if the question were genuine in the first place.....

It's funny how football is a team sport and are Winning team and a team full of stars are sometimes not the same. Posters focus on one player or another and say "we can't win a premiership with X in the team".
What crap, its about a team performance. If players who are down on form return to their 2012 best combined with the awesome young talent the Crows are a genuine finals chance. The problem this year is a team problem and not an individual player problem.

Anyone who says the fall out of Tippett saga and the Bailey suspension can be shielded from the players and not effect the preseason has rocks in their heads. We had one of the worst off seasons in a long time. Combine that with the late start some of our players had due to burn out last year (Jacobs in particular) and we arrive at the current situation.

Having said that it is not all doom and gloom and we are well into the season now. The off season stuff is well behind us and it is up to each player to step up now. We have seen Dougie step up this year and has been consistently outstanding. Vince has turned his form around after being sent to take a good hard look at himself. Dangerfield started slow but seems to be building. Talia had a slow start on the comback trail from his broken arm, but seems to have that sorted out. Rutten has been a rock. Sloane has been his awesome self. We have a bunch of young players handling themselves very well.

In a wet and ugly game it is unfair to single out Brown and Otten. Martin has had no AFL footy this year and is a depth player. VB had a stinker overall, but he also was key in a couple of passages when it mattered.

The team will learn from this. Our side is not a basketcase, and the future is bright. Up with the boot staps and on to the next game.

Never said we were a basketcase and agree with you that the future is very bright. Just suggested that VB being captain may be an issue in future as our midfield matures. There are only so many spots in the the midfield and Im not sure that VB would get a gig at all in recent premiership sides.

 

[Crowbots are dead]

Ptt

Ottens 1st bad game of the year, give him a break!!!

Brown is young, still has to work on his consistency!!

en was not bad. I cant believe the amount of people jumping on the bandwagon. Can someone explain to me what was so bad. I reckon he would have been our 8th or 9th best player.

 

[spenze]

Ptt
en was not bad. I cant believe the amount of people jumping on the bandwagon. Can someone explain to me what was so bad. I reckon he would have been our 8th or 9th best player.

He was, he stunk like Michael Douglas' face after some self administered throat cancer treatment.

Not his fault though, conditions really didn't suit and he had no match up

 

[fairfooty]

He was, he stunk like Michael Douglas' face after some self administered throat cancer treatment.

Not his fault though, conditions really didn't suit and he had no match up

You know thats a really horrible thing to say - one day it could be you...

 

[spenze]

You know thats a really horrible thing to say - one day it could be you...

You have seen the news in the last three days right?