Matthew Scharenberg

larrikan · Aug 3, 2015

Thanks TD, I'm pretty happy with that highlights package in a defence under pressure all day. Serviceable first game.

Gone Critical · Aug 3, 2015

larrikan said:
OMG....no pre-season for two years...two serious injuries...ACL takes a year to get full strength and confidence...called up an hour and a half before the match to replace Goldsack...and BF posters critiquing him like he is a seasoned footballer.

How about well done Shaz for committing to getting your body right to make an amazingly quick debut? We look forward to you continuing to learn the speed of AFL games in these remaining matches and we will see you next year after your FIRST full pre season.

Fair enough. We all really want Shaz to be a success and I guess watching him at VFL level and now this week its just something that has worried. He does commit in the air but ar ground level he doesnt at times. As you say he needs much more time. Just feeling a bit greedy to see what he can put up coming with the reputation he has.

Soups · Aug 3, 2015

I'm not worried at all by the debut. He got in the thick of it in a game where there were many other players who put in a lot less effort.

I feel like sometimes people expect super star from day dot. We just have to be patient with him. Most of us have watched enough footy to realise this boy has some serious talent and he just needs some more time. It will be the same with Freeman. Leave him in for the rest of the year now. Sign him up after. :thumbsu:

sworf · Aug 3, 2015

Don't underestimate the impact of the knee/body, he certainly seems to pick and choose his contests and you'd hope that decision making would improve (not that I have a big problem with it). I'd still rather him be in the side while he gets back to full fitness/mobility, he's good enough and it would be less of a gift than some of the other young guys in terms of his output. Thought his hands were quicker than how he's been using it at VFL level.

I think people undersell what he did in the VFL with his contests, although he certainly could have cracked in more and had greater intensity, he would go when it was his turn. People just reading the match reports might not realise he also had some good moments (although you could argue rarely) like backing in to leading forwards to take contested marks, and ended a game with a bandaged head from attacking the ball head first. So I don't think it's a concern that he will turn out a soft player who avoids contests.

On the Vandenberg to Harmes goal, I think you are being harsh on him, certainly could have done more by running harder in the first place but certainly didn't see him at walking pace, my criticism would be that he was a bit too cruisy. Consequently, instead of going with him he drifted out to cover Garlett but remember it's his first game, and the way our prone-to-shambles defense has had defenders running off their men, covering each other and chasing their own tail you could forgive him for thinking maybe Langdon then Toovey might cover Harmes running through, but instead Langdon turns back to Garlett aswell, already too late for Shaz to catch up now, then Toovey chases Vandenberg with Crisp while Harmes just runs past him. If I had to blame one of them for the goal I'd pick Langdon who ran in with Vandenberg and made the decision to leave him to run out the back on his own, and didn't kill the contest. Scharenberg made a similar decision but he had teammates ahead of his man that he could expect some help defense from (ie. Toovey). Agree he doesn't look like he has any fire in his belly but I would even put that down to where his body's at from my own experiences returning to footy, although you can see from his personality he is never going to show passion and desperation like Moore etc.

Anyway, to point out a positive, here's the play where Scharenberg made up a fair bit of ground in a hurry to impact a contest and kill it if not for Toovey's silly free kick give away. (On the CFC website highlights)

left at home · Aug 3, 2015

a reputation that comes from mainly kids football. just give him time. for what he,s gone through lets be thankfull
he did alright.he showed good signs but he and the club would know theres a long way to go and inprovement in him

TradeDraft · Aug 3, 2015

^^^
Love The Pics mate Showing your Example

Gone Critical · Aug 3, 2015

sworf said:
Don't underestimate the impact of the knee/body, he certainly seems to pick and choose his contests and you'd hope that decision making would improve (not that I have a big problem with it). I'd still rather him be in the side while he gets back to full fitness/mobility, he's good enough and it would be less of a gift than some of the other young guys in terms of his output. Thought his hands were quicker than how he's been using it at VFL level.

I think people undersell what he did in the VFL with his contests, although he certainly could have cracked in more and had greater intensity, he would go when it was his turn. People just reading the match reports might not realise he also had some good moments (although you could argue rarely) like backing in to leading forwards to take contested marks, and ended a game with a bandaged head from attacking the ball head first. So I don't think it's a concern that he will turn out a soft player who avoids contests.

On the Vandenberg to Harmes goal, I think you are being harsh on him, certainly could have done more by running harder in the first place but certainly didn't see him at walking pace, my criticism would be that he was a bit too cruisy. Consequently, instead of going with him he drifted out to cover Garlett but remember it's his first game, and the way our prone-to-shambles defense has had defenders running off their men, covering each other and chasing their own tail you could forgive him for thinking maybe Langdon then Toovey might cover Harmes running through, but instead Langdon turns back to Garlett aswell, already too late for Shaz to catch up now, then Toovey chases Vandenberg with Crisp while Harmes just runs past him. If I had to blame one of them for the goal I'd pick Langdon who ran in with Vandenberg and made the decision to leave him to run out the back on his own, and didn't kill the contest. Scharenberg made a similar decision but he had teammates ahead of his man that he could expect some help defense from (ie. Toovey). Agree he doesn't look like he has any fire in his belly but I would even put that down to where his body's at from my own experiences returning to footy, although you can see from his personality he is never going to show passion and desperation like Moore etc.

Anyway, to point out a positive, here's the play where Scharenberg made up a fair bit of ground in a hurry to impact a contest and kill it if not for Toovey's silly free kick give away. (On the CFC website highlights)

View attachment 158888
View attachment 158889
View attachment 158890

You make some good points and the spoil you point out occurred 2+ minutes after the Harmes goal so it was good to see him fire up a bit. Still the camera shots from behind the goals of him and Harmes doesnt back what you say. Shaz just gave up on the contest, he didnt get near chasing Garlett and was nearly at walking pace when he realised Harmes, his man, was about to get on the end of it. Langdon wasn't great as you say but at least he made an effort to impact the contest. Shaz just gave the contest up early in the piece and let his man go. Just a feature I don't like to see when the game was up for grabs and it's his debut. AFL is tough and you can't pick and choose when you go. Early in his career but both at VFL level and here he showed something that he needs to get out of his game.

sworf · Aug 3, 2015

Gone Critical said:
You make some good points and the spoil you point out occurred 2+ minutes after the Harmes goal so it was good to see him fire up a bit. Still the camera shots from behind the goals of him and Harmes doesnt back what you say. Shaz just gave up on the contest, he didnt get near chasing Garlett and was nearly at walking pace when he realised Harmes, his man, was about to get on the end of it. Langdon wasn't great as you say but at least he made an effort to impact the contest. Shaz just gave the contest up early in the piece and let his man go. Just a feature I don't like to see when the game was up for grabs and it's his debut. AFL is tough and you can't pick and choose when you go. Early in his career but both at VFL level and here he showed something that he needs to get out of his game.

Fair enough, I definitely agree that he has that habit of trailing guys too casually at times which is not good, just don't think that example is so bad, and I reckon you'd be able to find that same type of example with a lot of players throughout the game. Seen him play a few metres too loose and gamble on reading the play plenty of times in the VFL and can get caught out with quick turnovers. At the same time I really do think he reads it exceptionally and would back him in to pick and choose when to go once he's got more experience under his belt.

I'm not really concerned about it long term because I'm bullish on him and assuming it will be ironed out with more games, and I would hope he's not being used as a lock down defender in the long term either, we have better defenders to defend and he would be more damaging with his reading of the play and ball use in another role not chasing someone else around most of the time.

Justlokan · Aug 4, 2015

Gone Critical said:
You make some good points and the spoil you point out occurred 2+ minutes after the Harmes goal so it was good to see him fire up a bit. Still the camera shots from behind the goals of him and Harmes doesnt back what you say. Shaz just gave up on the contest, he didnt get near chasing Garlett and was nearly at walking pace when he realised Harmes, his man, was about to get on the end of it. Langdon wasn't great as you say but at least he made an effort to impact the contest. Shaz just gave the contest up early in the piece and let his man go. Just a feature I don't like to see when the game was up for grabs and it's his debut. AFL is tough and you can't pick and choose when you go. Early in his career but both at VFL level and here he showed something that he needs to get out of his game.

I think he's one of those smart footballers that knows when to chase hard and when to not bother.

Swanny's similar. Fierce when the ball is in dispute but if the opposition can't be run down he doesn't bother. Even Pendles can look laconic
Yes, it doesn't look good but Shaz is smart enough to know his limitations (speed and fitness). Why bust your gut when the ball might rebound to you and then you don't have the tank to do anything with it?

Very early call, but I think Shaz has the makings of a very good coach

si tacuisses · Aug 4, 2015

I'm not even gonna begin worrying about his effort levels till I'm sure he's staying. First things first.

Jelly Bean · Aug 4, 2015

campbell023 said:
I'm not worried at all by the debut. He got in the thick of it in a game where there were many other players who put in a lot less effort.

I feel like sometimes people expect super star from day dot. We just have to be patient with him. Most of us have watched enough footy to realise this boy has some serious talent and he just needs some more time. It will be the same with Freeman. Leave him in for the rest of the year now. Sign him up after.

We aren't looking for him to be a superstar, but we do look for certain behaviours that when put together consistently mean someone will become a senior player.

You don't need to be a superstar to chase hard and stay close to your man, but it is a behaviour you would look for in a player to give some indication that they will become players.

Scharenberg will need to work on this part of his game if he is to make it as a defender. Otherwise, he will need to push into the midfield where other behaviours he shows (e.g. ability to remain composed in traffic and find really good targets by hand) suggest he has a little bit of Pendles magic.

ottoman · Aug 4, 2015

Oh FFS are we really trying to judge this kid after 1 yes that is correct 1 game. This is crazy people. Many have already decided they know what his strengths and weaknesses are after one bloody game.

Markfs · Aug 4, 2015

ottoman said:
Oh FFS are we really trying to judge this kid after 1 yes that is correct 1 game. This is crazy people. Many have already decided they know what his strengths and weaknesses are after one bloody game.

I dont see why not. There are many of us selecting players from the draft before the official draft picks and our choices are usually better than the experts. We've nominated trades and targeted players at other clubs when the actual recruitment staff have acted like inanimate objects and done nothing. We've evaluated our players and demanded them to be dropped off the list long before the club has gotten around to it. BF has proved itself as the most accurate player evaluation tool in the system.

ottoman · Aug 4, 2015

Markfs said:
I dont see why not. There are many of us selecting players from the draft before the official draft picks and our choices are usually better than the experts. We've nominated trades and targeted players at other clubs when the actual recruitment staff have acted like inanimate objects and done nothing. We've evaluated our players and demanded them to be dropped off the list long before the club has gotten around to it. BF has proved itself as the most accurate player evaluation tool in the system.

Well since you put it like that I retract my post and bow my head in shame at my ignorance.
My dad always told me to think before I spoke. I now understand the value of his words

ace andy · Aug 4, 2015

ottoman said:
Oh FFS are we really trying to judge this kid after 1 yes that is correct 1 game. This is crazy people. Many have already decided they know what his strengths and weaknesses are after one bloody game.

I really don't understand this. If people were saying he won't make it and we should delist after one game I would agree with you. But people are only giving opinions on how they see his football now and projecting what they might see in the future. So what. Why isn't that allowed. Recruiters do it all the time and don't we all like to pretend we are recruiters as well? I suppose we aren't allowed to pretend to be a coach by saying what positions players should play either?

I'm sure at draft time you put you two cents in on which players you like so you do the same thing. Only difference is once they get to collingwood you are saying you are no longer able to say what you think their strength/weakness are and what chance you give them on if they will make it.

cleomenes · Aug 4, 2015

The only fault I really found in his first game was a tendency to handball straight away when surrounded (in the manner of Frost), with no idea of the circumstances of the receiver. In a player's first game, with the whole team under the hammer, I am not ready to extrapolate this very far. Let's just wait and see.

Markfs · Aug 4, 2015

ottoman said:
Well since you put it like that I retract my post and bow my head in shame at my ignorance.
My dad always told me to think before I spoke. I now understand the value of his words

as long as we learn from our mistakes, nothing is wasted in our lives. I too undervalued the accuracy of snap decision making on BF until I complained about my wife in a thread 4 years ago and was told to dump her. I never looked back.

Jelly Bean · Aug 4, 2015

ottoman said:
Oh FFS are we really trying to judge this kid after 1 yes that is correct 1 game. This is crazy people. Many have already decided they know what his strengths and weaknesses are after one bloody game.

Many of us have seen a number of his VFL games as well.

You can only judge someone on what they've shown.

Old Spice · Aug 4, 2015

Sample size way too small. Once he gains confidence in his body we might see more man on man intensity.

domin8tors · Aug 4, 2015

Gone Critical said:
Really feel similar sentiments VP. He settled into the game well and was a fairly good debut. He shows poise and time. Where though is the enthusiasm and determination to stop his man. He has yet to show any desperation as a backman. At VFL level he often lets his man have a free run at the ball and chases with no intent.

On Saturday in the last Q when we were 15 points down his direct opponent James Harmes just ran off him into the square to kick an uncontested goal. Maybe Vandenberg who had marked would have kicked the goal anyway but the match was in the balance but rushing away from us. Shaz is just behind Harmes when they run into the 50 but starts slowing immediately while Harmes tears off. Shaz gets to walking pace when he sees Harmes is about to get involved in the play so jogs a few more steps but by then he is 15 m behind and well out of the contest. The view from the camera behind the goals is worse but you can see it in the clip below.

It just didnt look right , with the game still in the balance in the final Q and its your 1st game and you just stop trying in a contest and let your opponent have a free run inside 50. Shaz to be doesnt look like a recruit with some fire in his belly and a fierce desire like a Moore, De Goey or even Maynard.

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/video/2015-08-03/rd-18-harmes-first-goal

almost AKA Jack Watts

domin8tors · Aug 4, 2015

Justlokan said:
I think he's one of those smart footballers that knows when to chase hard and when to not bother.

Swanny's similar. Fierce when the ball is in dispute but if the opposition can't be run down he doesn't bother. Even Pendles can look laconic
Yes, it doesn't look good but Shaz is smart enough to know his limitations (speed and fitness). Why bust your gut when the ball might rebound to you and then you don't have the tank to do anything with it?

Very early call, but I think Shaz has the makings of a very good coach

I think that is a good point that an element can also be game sense. ( eg ) he probably concedes on some contests knowing that the player X has better field position and he most likely can't influence the play so he hangs back filling up the Zone. if he was to go up to the contest then the space behind him opens up.

lethalburns · Aug 4, 2015

my first impressions: smart, calm

would be more excited about him but don't think he will be at the club next year.

usually when a kid gets supported through multiple injuries they repay the faith and resign.

is he a restricted free agent and therefore can only go if we don't match the crows offer?

PepperFace · Aug 4, 2015

Im not going to post about scharenberg unless he signs a 5 year contract

Lefthanded · Aug 4, 2015

Vicky Park said:
Interesting this issue of Schazza's game yesterday appearing to be at a similar level to his VFL games. He made the transition, but did the same things, with similar numbers. But isn't that a good sign?

I find him to be an enigmatic footballer. You can see that he has poise and footy smarts, but you don't see absolute focused determination ( e.g. De Goey) or a potential human highlights reel (Moore). I think he will surprise us.

bolded 1 - yes
bolded 2 - just because we don't see it doesn't mean it's not there. Obviously very disciplined, professional to come back from his ACL relatively early
bolded 3 - I think so too.

Timmy from Thomastown · Aug 4, 2015

THATSGOLD said:
What did everyone like about Scharenberg game?

His Pendlebury like vision and time.

Log In or Create New Account

Matthew Scharenberg

Club Legend

Moderator

Premium Platinum

Rookie

Hall of Famer

Post-Human

Moderator

Rookie

All Australian

Club Legend

Norm Smith Medallist

Norm Smith Medallist

Hall of Famer

Norm Smith Medallist

All Australian

Cancelled

Hall of Famer

Norm Smith Medallist

Norm Smith Medallist

Club Legend

Club Legend

All Australian

Norm Smith Medallist

Premiership Player

TheBrownDog