Prediction Michael Barlow

[WeeBlake]

SPP isn't a massive accumulator at this stage, though? Berry could well put in some good performances, but I reckon he needs to put on a bit of bulk first before we see consistency from him. Venables really needs to develop his endurance, which will take a couple of pre-seasons... but once he does it, he'll be an utter gun. And yes, all will be better than Lyons, I agree.

Even top 5 picks aren't a sure thing

 

[footy4ever]

So, no Barlow?

 

[jenny61_99]

So, no Barlow?

Doesn't look like it.

 

[ad victoriam]

I've already voiced my concerns on Douglas and Atkins. Hampton will not be an inside mid at AFL level. I'd definitely bet Laird will not be moved from the back half. Smith I feel works best on the outside, although he could make for a good inside player, considering he played that role at U18 level.
Berry will be good, but he will NOT average 20 disposals a game next year, only Darcy Parish did that this year out of the first-year players when he was forced to be a main option in a severely lacking Essendon midfield.

You really should look at what happen when those two player played in the middle. Also Don't rule out Hampton,
But the point I am making Pyke will not be looking for a Like for Like player as he will be expecting the team approach, Lyons is easily replaceable as we will find out next year. The hard experience Mid will be harder to replace and that is not Lyons.
Also How did Matt go in his first year when not playing as the sub, How did his brother go,

 

[Bicks]

Even top 5 picks aren't a sure thing

I'd wager most of the top 20 in this draft other than maybe the talls if they go that early will definitely make it as AFL players in this particular draft...this draft IMO will be remembered as one of the best in the last decade.

 

[marty36]

I will go on record now if we take any of Sam Powell Pepper, Daniel Venables, Jarrod Berry, Griffin Logue or Jordan Galluci with Pick 13 they will play AFL in 2017, hell even some of the guys that may be available at 43 like Poholke, Drew, Ronke, Begley, Graham etc would be a chance without even factoring in mature age guys like Gibbons or Jye Bolton and several other possibilities.

That's not much of a prediction all but two players debuted this year of first rounders. In a less talented draft

Infact it would mean they failed miserably if they don't debut

 

[MRB37]

The fact he got only 18 disposals playing a similar role to Lyons against Brisbane (of all teams) suggests to me he won't be as impactful. And that's without mentioning the 13 disposals against WCE. Now, he might be better with consistent opportunities, but I'm doubting it.

Cam got 59% ToG in the Eagles game. Lyons got 73%, Matt 79%, Thommo and Brad 75%, Douglas 76% etc.

Not to mention he only got 3 possessions in the centre square because he was being used higher up the ground. They didn't do a whole lot in that Eagles game to let CEY play to his strengths. I wonder why they even picked him to be honest.

 

[marty36]

Lyons was not a pure HFF this year. A replacement for Lyons would also need to be able to play as an inside mid. You're making an assumption that Douglas will get back to his form of old at age 30, and that Rat will become able to win more contested possessions than only 6.5 a game.

I'm not counting my chickens on Wigg. Yes, he has a laser boot, and can win the ball inside, but he's also small, and doesn't seem to have the absolute best speed to me? Mind you, I just got an image of Sam Mitchell in my head.

I'm certainly not ruling out Gore yet, I'm waiting for him to put on some more muscle over the preseason (which should allow him to make a consistent impact) before making a judgement. If we get Berry, he should be able to play 13-15 games, but he won't consistently get 20 disposals a game in his first year (i.e. what Lyons did this year). Besides, if we get Venables or SPP instead, they'll make even less of a consistent impact (although they both have very high ceilings).

You want someone out of the draft who can step up next year, Jack Graham is your man big and strong inside mid, all Australian and MVP of the championship

 

[skoobydoo]

Bolded bit is what I, and the club, have a problem with. You, and most of BigFooty, are chronically overrating Lyons. The reality is that he was one of the last few players selected each week, and the club was eager to move him on to make way for younger & better talent coming through (Milera/Doedee/Knight). They sold him for a price they thought accurately reflected his value as a player.

The issue is not Lyons making us weaker in the best 22. The issue is Lyons' departure, combined with the delisting of Grigg and downgrading of Thompson, leaving us lacking depth in the "inside mid" department. I agree that this is a concern, but a sign of complacency? No.

Well I'm afraid I can't understand the Lyons treatment and none of these various posts help provide any rationale.
If he was to be moved on at seasons end, if Douglas is an upgrade, if he had failed to convince the coach, if so many things, why was he persevered with into the finals? We're we just hell bent on winning finals and therefore played our 'best' selections, and the future can take care of itself? Did we have Gibbs in the pipeline, and then later Barlow by default? Because the Grigg, Thompson end-of-season outcome certainly makes it appear so.
Even with the Gibbs stuff-up our movements to date exhibit no real logic, and if it is not 'complacency' then it otherwise appears we got caught on the wrong foot or with our pants half down. Continuing to invest playing time and finals effort/experience with Lyons and then shafting him off just indicates to me we are either caught between a rock and a hard place or we are lurching spasmodically from meeting to meeting. If it ain't complacency then it's beginning to smell like incompetence......but that can't be right......surely

 

[WaynesWorld19]

We DO NOT have a lack of 'inside leaning' talent, Pyke has clearly observed we needed to change the midfield mix to get to the next level and quite obviously he didn't see Lyons fitting into those plans. From the sound of it Pyke is only "lukewarm" on Barlow too, though he does perhaps offer what Lyons lacks, size and endurance??

...How so? .......have i missed something that's been said somewhere?

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Not necessarily. I think Knight 2017 could well provide everything (and more) that Lyons did in 2016.

Knight i think has been forgotten in this conversation ....definitely capable of playing both inside & out .......sorry to interrupt the conversation, carry on

 

[WaynesWorld19]

You want someone out of the draft who can step up next year, Jack Graham is your man big and strong inside mid, all Australian and MVP of the championship

Could be available at #43 too

 

[marty36]

Could be available at #43 too

Doubt it, but you never know, being an all Australian had him judged as top 22 by the selectors of that and MVP had him as the best player of the entire championship by some so called experts

 

[marty36]

Knight i think has been forgotten in this conversation ....definitely capable of playing both inside & out .......sorry to interrupt the conversation, carry on

Is he the guy that they wanted to play instead of Lyons but unfortunately was injured

 

[MRB37]

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Well this logic pretty much well and truly counts out CEY, as in the two games he played he pretty much did the same, yet couldn't make as big an impact as Lyons.

Think the issue with CEY, apart from the defensive running that's been well documented .....is CEY's hurt factor as a midfielder

M.Crouch, Lyons, CEY, Douglas, Thommo .......all have the negative that they have a relatively low hurt factor on the opposition .....M.Crouch is "slowly" getting better, but if you have too many vanilla midfielders, you're not going to win too many head to head battles

This is where i think Milera, Menzel, and Hampton can step up and take us to another level

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Sounds like gold coast are offering more.

Think at this stage job security & $$$$ is probably more valued than premiership success .....i can understand that line of thought from Barlow, given he was a late starter anyway

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Is he the guy that they wanted to play instead of Lyons but unfortunately was injured

I still think last year he probably would still have been preferred on a wing .......IMO Menzel was probably "chalked" in for a potential HFF / Mid role

I still think Lyons out ......and Milera, Menzel, Knights, Hampton, Otten .....there's a bucketload of real talent there to take us to another level .....very confident in 2017

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Doubt it, but you never know, being an all Australian had him judged as top 22 by the selectors of that and MVP had him as the best player of the entire championship by some so called experts

Not the first time an AA hasn't even been drafted ......so drifting in a strong draft is not unheard off .....that said he has a long way to go fitness wise

 

[Danger in Texas]

You want someone out of the draft who can step up next year, Jack Graham is your man big and strong inside mid, all Australian and MVP of the championship

The thing is, I don't want the club to be drafting players with low ceilings with our earlier picks. I'd much prefer to draft a Bolton/Gibbons type with our last pick. Like what the Cats did with Menegola.

You really should look at what happen when those two player played in the middle. Also Don't rule out Hampton,
But the point I am making Pyke will not be looking for a Like for Like player as he will be expecting the team approach, Lyons is easily replaceable as we will find out next year. The hard experience Mid will be harder to replace and that is not Lyons.
Also How did Matt go in his first year when not playing as the sub, How did his brother go,

My concerns on Douglas are if he's regressed since 2015, which he could well have being almost 30, now. He was good then, will he be good as a mid in 2017, though? Atkins is evasive, but he doesn't scream a tough, clearance-winning inside mid to me. He's better on the outside at this stage. Hampton is at his evasive, pacy best on the outside, too.

The Crouches are very much exceptions to the rule rather than the norm.

If we don't do a like for like replacement with both Thommo and Lyons, we will be playing only three 'good enough' players in the guts who's best position is as an inside mid. Brouch, Mrouch and Sloane. Douglas maybe, too, if he hasn't regressed. That's not a winning formula.

 

[MRB37]

Think the issue with CEY, apart from the defensive running that's been well documented .....is CEY's hurt factor as a midfielder

M.Crouch, Lyons, CEY, Douglas, Thommo .......all have the negative that they have a relatively low hurt factor on the opposition .....M.Crouch is "slowly" getting better, but if you have too many vanilla midfielders, you're not going to win too many head to head battles

This is where i think Milera, Menzel, and Hampton can step up and take us to another level

Was reading last years AFL prospectus and it mentioned he ranked as elite for "pressure points" per 100 minutes in '15. Would be interesting to see where that sits from his games last year.

 

[MRB37]

Nothing much in the Channel 9 report. Just a "Channel 9 understands there's still a chance Barlow signs with the Crows" quicky.

 

[Danger in Texas]

Knight i think has been forgotten in this conversation ....definitely capable of playing both inside & out .......sorry to interrupt the conversation, carry on

Better on the outside IMO, but definitely capable of playing in the guts. Will be a future gun, 2018 is when he'll make his stamp though, I reckon (barring an exceptional preseason)

Think the issue with CEY, apart from the defensive running that's been well documented .....is CEY's hurt factor as a midfielder

M.Crouch, Lyons, CEY, Douglas, Thommo .......all have the negative that they have a relatively low hurt factor on the opposition .....M.Crouch is "slowly" getting better, but if you have too many vanilla midfielders, you're not going to win too many head to head battles

This is where i think Milera, Menzel, and Hampton can step up and take us to another level

Not many inside players have that hurt factor though, honestly. Do agree that's the point of difference that we need.

Not sure we have any players (bar Greenwood) who could turn into that player currently on our list IMO - someone who is tough, tackles well, wins clearances and contested ball, marks well and has hurt factor in his disposal. This is why I'm so keen on Venables.

Menzel, Milera and Hampton have traits that just have to be used on the outside (i.e. when in space) - Menzel has the defensive toughness and tackling, but that doesn't mean he's best suited on the inside, you need your outside mids to tackle, too.

 

[craig crowing]

Just don't understand club in not picking up Barlow as it would have been pick 102 or something like that.
I can see this board going into meltdown as it becoming clearer that Thompson will be playing most if not all games as key inside mid.
Just don't understand especially when getting rid of Henderson when only getting pick 102 for.
Every man and dog knows our weakness was in the mids , so we make it worse by getting rid of one of the starting mids and doing nothing to replace him and Thommo.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Was reading last years AFL prospectus and it mentioned he ranked as elite for "pressure points" per 100 minutes in '15. Would be interesting to see where that sits from his games last year.

I'd agree with that in 2015 ......CEY's handballs in those handful of games really put other Crows players into dangerous positions to score

CEY just had a nothing AFL season ......hope he gets an opportunity early in the PS .....but really it's not the club not selecting him, it's CEY not giving the club no choice but to select him