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Michael Hussey - Torn Hamstring

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Hodge, no point thinking about anyone else.

ManWithNoName said:
What? It's the World Cup. You play to win. You rebuild to win the World Cup ffs.
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Drakescoffeecake said:
Nah.
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What do you mean 'nah'? You want us to go into the WC without our best players?

Ferg averages 35 in List A matches - not good enough yet.
Marsh averages 35 in List A matches - not good enough yet.
Hodge averages 44 in List A matches and is the most explosive player in the country.
 

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Terrible news... but I wouldn't count Huss out yet. Absolute legend, hope he gets there, but at least we have some pretty good replacements that could go if he can't. Any of Hodge, Marsh and Ferguson could do a pretty good job - maybe not as good as Hussey though.
 
IMHO, Ferguson should be replacing Hussey.

But that's because Hodge should already be in the squad.

All will be revealed tomorrow... and I suspect that either way, Hodge won't be listed.
 
mattymac said:
fergs averages 46 in ODIs. well and truly good enough already
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Just had a squiz at the ODIs he's played, the only times he's made runs were against sub-par bowling.
Parnell, Kallis, A Morkel, Botha, van der Merwe
Southee, O'Brien, Mills, Diamanti, Elliott
Gul, Arafat, Tanvir, Malik, Afridi
Akhtar, Gul, Arafat, Ajmal, Afridi
Sidebottom, Anderson, Swann, Wright, Rashid, Collingwood

He once made 41 against a very good attack:
Steyn, Ntini, M Morkel, Kallis, A Morkel
 
Oh for god sake.

So do we eliminate all runs Hodge scored against the Redbacks just because we're shit? Come off it. Ferguson can only make runs against who he comes up against and he's done that, and done it well. And you know what? Half those attacks are actually pretty good.
 
SouthSwans said:
Just had a squiz at the ODIs he's played, the only times he's made runs were against sub-par bowling.
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Really?

In the South African series, only Haddin scored more runs than Ferguson. Against England, he outscored Hussey and Watson and had the highest average of any batsman.

So what does that mean for the other Australian batsmen? If Ferguson only scored runs because it was against an average bowling attack (which neither were) then should we drop everyone else? They did perform worse after all.

Ferguson has done remarkably well in his short career at international level. In his very first series he finished with a strike rate of over 120. If anyone was to replace Hussey, then he would have to be the first cab off the rank. Ferguson is as close to Hussey as Australia have, and should be in the team anyway.
 
Drakescoffeecake said:
Oh and Ferguson averages 46 in ODI's so dismissing him so quickly is just idiotic, but very well :thumbsu:
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mattymac said:
fergs averages 46 in ODIs. well and truly good enough already
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Ferguson's ODI average is a bit misleading.

His 22 innings include 9 not outs, which boost his average considerably. Without those innings being not outs, he averages just 27.23 runs per innings in ODIs. 6 of his not outs have been innings of under 25 runs as well, so it's not like he's regularly hanging around and building big scores. He's only had 9 scores above 25 in those 22 innings as well.

Not saying Ferguson isn't talented or isn't a viable option as Hussey's replacement, but you need to take his ODI average with a grain of salt.
 
Damon_3388 said:
Ferguson's ODI average is a bit misleading.

His 22 innings include 9 not outs, which boost his average considerably. Without those innings being not outs, he averages just 27.23 runs per innings in ODIs. He's only had 9 scores above 25 in those 22 innings as well. 6 of his not outs have been innings of under 25 runs as well, so it's not like he's regularly hanging around and building big scores. Not saying Ferguson isn't talented or isn't a viable option as Hussey's replacement, but you need to take his ODI average with a grain of salt.
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also means 9 times his innings has been cut short by the end of the 50 overs. shows he can marshall the tail. perfect replacement for huss
 
I was about to say, doesn't being not out so many times strengthen the Ferguson argument?

And again, just like the attacks he's come up against, it's not Ferguson's fault that he's getting not outs. He comes in down the order and by then they've either chased down the total or its the 40th over.
 

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mattymac said:
also means 9 times his innings has been cut short by the end of the 50 overs. shows he can marshall the tail. perfect replacement for huss
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"Marshall the tail"? 6 of his not outs come from innings of under 25 runs, so he's hardly had to do major work to guide the side home. In fact, 5 of his not outs have come when Australia was batting first, so he's not really guiding us to victory there anyway.

Drakescoffeecake said:
I was about to say, doesn't being not out so many times strengthen the Ferguson argument?

And again, just like the attacks he's come up against, it's not Ferguson's fault that he's getting not outs. He comes in down the order and by then they've either chased down the total or its the 40th over.
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The point is, he's not spending great times at the crease for most of these not outs, and they're simply artificially inflating his average.
 
Yeah, but that's true about every single cricketer ever. It's not like Ferguson is the only player to have not outs inflating his record. Personally, I look to them as a positive.

You just have to watch the South African series to see how good he is, even when coming in earlier. He didn't have not outs that series, but came to the crease when things were tough and batted well. A lot better than some of the more experienced players.
 
Tyberious Funk said:
My understanding is that you can only bring in a replacement for a player that gets injured. Existing injuries don't count. If a player has an existing injury, you can only replace them if they get a new injury.

And the replacement doesn't have to be from the original 30. In fact, the current squad of 15 doesn't actually have to be from the original 30. Picking 30 "probables" is a PR exercise more than anything.

At least, those were the rules in previous World Cups. No idea if it is still the case.

FWIW, Hussey turns 36 in May. This could actually be the end of his career :(
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That's my fear, but he's pretty determined and if he nurses himself properly I'm sure we'd see him in at least short formats again. God, I'll be depressed if it is the end of Huss as an Aus rep.
 
what exactly are you trying to say damon? just arguing for arguments sake?

i've seen him bat in a fair few odis. keeps a cool head and scores round a run a ball. plays better for his country than for his state which isn't uncommon and often happens where a talented player comes from a poor state side. numbers can be wanked in a lot of ways. i'm not gonna hold it against him that his innings has been cut short 9 times by the end of the overs
 
SouthSwans said:
Just had a squiz at the ODIs he's played, the only times he's made runs were against sub-par bowling.
Parnell, Kallis, A Morkel, Botha, van der Merwe
Southee, O'Brien, Mills, Diamanti, Elliott
Gul, Arafat, Tanvir, Malik, Afridi
Akhtar, Gul, Arafat, Ajmal, Afridi
Sidebottom, Anderson, Swann, Wright, Rashid, Collingwood

He once made 41 against a very good attack:
Steyn, Ntini, M Morkel, Kallis, A Morkel
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So basically only the teams with Dale Steyn and Morne Morkel in them are worth counting as decent attacks. :p

Both those Pakistan attacks aren't bad at all for short formats. Neither is the English one.

And considering all the other Aus batsmen seemed to find themselves in absolute knots 2 years ago when playing against Botha and van der Merwe, I don't think that attack can be counted as a sub-par one either.
 
Damon_3388 said:
"Marshall the tail"? 6 of his not outs come from innings of under 25 runs, so he's hardly had to do major work to guide the side home. In fact, 5 of his not outs have come when Australia was batting first, so he's not really guiding us to victory there anyway.
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How is that Ferguson's fault? If he came in during the 25th over and only made 25 or under then you have a case. But he's coming in when there's only a few overs to go, gets valuable runs and stays at the crease. That's all he CAN do. What do you want from him? A century after coming to the crease in the 43rd over?
 

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mattymac said:
what exactly are you trying to say damon? just arguing for arguments sake?
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I thought it was pretty clear what I was saying:

  • His unusually high percentage of not outs inflates his average.
  • He's not spending great times at the crease for most of these not outs.
  • In more than half his ODI innings he has failed to reach 25.
  • He's had a few good innings, but just as many poor/average/nothing innings.
I'm just stating the facts, and people can deduce from them what they will.

Personally, based on those facts, think his ODI average is misleading and serves to overrate his ability, that's all. People are welcome to disagree. As I commented earlier in the thread, I'm not saying he's not a worthwhile replacement for Hussey, I just don't think he's going to maintain his average of 46.07 either.

Drakescoffeecake said:
How is that Ferguson's fault? If he came in during the 25th over and only made 25 or under then you have a case. But he's coming in when there's only a few overs to go, gets valuable runs and stays at the crease. That's all he CAN do. What do you want from him? A century after coming to the crease in the 43rd over?
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He's been dismissed for less than 25 his fair share of times too.

mattymac said:
i've seen him bat in a fair few odis. keeps a cool head and scores round a run a ball.
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Don't mean to get pedantic, but a strike rate of 85.08 isn't "around a run a ball". He's never hit a six in international cricket, and isn't known for his power at domestic level either (one of the poorer acclaimed batsman in terms of of strike rate/balls per boundary in the "get on with it" format of T20). I know you don't just have to score boundaries to score quickly/keep the scoreboard ticking over, but I don't have strong faith that Ferguson will be this "run a ball" clockwork scorer for us in the World Cup that some people here (in other threads) think he will be.
 
Damon_3388 said:
I thought it was pretty clear what I was saying:

  • His unusually high percentage of not outs inflates his average.
  • He's not spending great times at the crease for most of these not outs.
  • In more than half his ODI innings he has failed to reach 25.
  • He's had a few good innings, but just as many poor/average/nothing innings.
I'm just stating the facts, and people can deduce from them what they will.
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  • not uncommon for a number 6 to have a lot of not outs in odis. they also don't get the opportunities to build an innings
  • not uncommon for a number 6 in odis who often come in with a handful of overs left
  • also not uncommon for a number 6 in odis, especially when your innings keeps getting cut short
  • also not uncommon for someone batting down the order in a 50 over game


Damon_3388 said:
I'm not saying he's not a worthwhile replacement for Hussey
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thats what i was getting at. marsh has been an ok opener for oz in the past but if we're looking for a replacement for hussey down the order fergs is the man

at 6 you rarely get time to build an innings and often have to go for it straight out. i think that compensates to some extent the inflation caused to averages by a higher number of not outs

hussey also has 14 not outs from his 58 innings at 6. you could say they are inflating his average of 40 at 6 but i think you may be ignoring the state of the game and the role of a number 6 in 50 over cricket
 
As mentioned Ferguson in for Hussey, Hodge should already be in the squad heck he should have played at number 3 in the 1st ODI.
 
People saying Ferguson's not outs count against him in ODI cricket are insane. Would you make the same criticism of Hussey, who also has a large number of not outs. They play the same role, their job is to be there at the end, and they do it well.

I'm no big fan of Ferguson for Test cricket, but he's a very good ODI cricketer.
 
Hodge has played 8 innings in the 45 over Ryobi Cup this summer for 3 centuries (two big ones) and a half century, at an average of 82, and a strike rate of 97. He's won games off his own bat, has been getting it done at the start of the innings and the end and has been hitting 4's and sixes like they're going out of style.
Ferguson has played 5 innings in the same comp for 1 century (just) and only 57 runs in the other 4 games (average of 14.25 for those games) at a strike rate of 77 and overall average of 39.5.
And some of you want Ferguson!
If it were to happen, Hodge in at 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 depending on who wasn't firing and the others to move down a slot. No big deal. And if it had to be someone to play at no. 6 I'd rather have Hodge spanking 4's and sixes on those small grounds than someone pushing it around.
 

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