Michael Voss merged threads

[blueskies]

If we want Voss, had we better get a wriggle on?

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=342160

This guy reckons Melbourne and Voss and almost married.

Even if he is making it all up, the possibility is, well, very possible. Daniher has quit, and Voss is keen as mustard to coach.

If the Dees are into Voss, and if the Blues were also keen, then does this mean we'd better get a wriggle on asap??

How funny would it be if two clubs went tooth and nail for an unproven coach who hasn't even been an assistant yet?

 

[truebluenavyblues]

Re: If we want Voss, had we better get a wriggle on?

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=342160

This guy reckons Melbourne and Voss and almost married.

Even if he is making it all up, the possibility is, well, very possible. Daniher has quit, and Voss is keen as mustard to coach.

If the Dees are into Voss, and if the Blues were also keen, then does this mean we'd better get a wriggle on asap??

How funny would it be if two clubs went tooth and nail for an unproven coach who hasn't even been an assistant yet?

in an interview with footy classified he stated that he would only go to a club where he felt the list could move forward. IMO the CFC list will only improve with age and we have our golden years in front of us.

 

[blueskies]

Re: If we want Voss, had we better get a wriggle on?

Melbourne list is pretty good too you realise. They were tipped for good things this year, but injury struck in a bad way. It really is amazing how often coaches get the sack when their club has had unprecedented injuries. See Brittain.

In Mclean, Bartram, Bate, Silvia, Jones, Petterd and Davey they have some good young mids coming through. They will probably finish very low this year so they will add another good kid to their list. Now all that said, ruck and KPP is an issue long-term.

If Voss is after immediate success, then Melbourne is the go. But you're probably right, if he's smart he'll see we probably have more topline depth across the board long-term (Waite, Thornton, Fisher, Setanta, Kennedy, Gibbs, Murphy, Walker, Simpson).

Both sides need a good young ruck and key defender.

 

[HBF]

Re: If we want Voss, had we better get a wriggle on?

The problem with Melbourne is that they rely on Neitz a fair bit, and when he doesn't play, they invariably struggle. Have a look earlier in the year, and then against Richmond on Friday night.

Obviously Melbourne are now in line for a new coach, and Fremantle probably will be as well. Pagan will struggle to hold on for next year, and the only other club that I can think of is Richmond, and they'd have to pay Wallace out 2 years.

Obviously i'm biased, but i'd choose Carlton over Melbourne and Fremantle.

 

[Bluebear]

Re: If we want Voss, had we better get a wriggle on?

Yet another Voss thread..........still no answer to the question:

What is it about Voss that makes people think he is worth the risk?

Must be the fourth thread this question has been posted in..........if no one able to answer it maybe the mods should auto-delete any new threads on the topic.

 

[[ToTTi]]

Re: If we want Voss, had we better get a wriggle on?

I am not sold that Voss will make a good coach. He isn't the most articulate person in the world and despite what he says I think he would be best suited to being an assistant first.

Isn't it too big of a risk throwing a coach in the deep end??

 

[Will.B.Worth.Da.Waite]

Re: If we want Voss, had we better get a wriggle on?

Im not that desperate to get Voss. Think he, like everybody else, should do an apprenticeship first. It would be a massive gamble by any club to hire him based on his playing career as opposed to a coaching career

All i care about is that we don't recruit Danniher lol

 

[jj1978]

Re: If we want Voss, had we better get a wriggle on?

Yet another Voss thread..........still no answer to the question:

What is it about Voss that makes people think he is worth the risk?

Must be the fourth thread this question has been posted in..........if no one able to answer it maybe the mods should auto-delete any new threads on the topic.

I agree!!!

Great player but that does not equate to great coach.

 

[walkers a legend]

Re: If we want Voss, had we better get a wriggle on?

i would probably take him hes just out of the game as captain and three premierships his knowledge would definantly help

 

[Bluebear]

Re: If we want Voss, had we better get a wriggle on?

i would probably take him hes just out of the game as captain and three premierships his knowledge would definantly help

Tim Watson was a captain and multiple premiership player.
Next reason.

 

[Thommo 42]

Re: If we want Voss, had we better get a wriggle on?

Leigh Matthews did no apprenticeship, and has gone ok as a coach.

He would be a good pickup, but there is nothing wrong with Pagan, you blokes just have an average list that is improving and are still wearing the consequences of the 1995 debacle.

 

[Bluebear]

Re: If we want Voss, had we better get a wriggle on?

Leigh Matthews did no apprenticeship, and has gone ok as a coach.

He would be a good pickup, but there is nothing wrong with Pagan, you blokes just have an average list that is improving and are still wearing the consequences of the 1995 debacle.

How big was a football department when Matthews started - 3-4 guys?

Footy was barely professional back then, and all you neede to have was a clue about where to position guys.
I don't buy this as an arguement.
What are his attributes that says he is worth the risk?

 

[Il Naso De Gastev]

Re: If we want Voss, had we better get a wriggle on?

Why are people so hung up on Voss?? Fair enough he was a great player, but it means very little. Denis Pagan was an average player, double premiership coach, and IMO a great one. Kevin Sheedy, good player.... same story.

A coaches pedigree has nothing at all to do with his exploits on the field. It's more nowadays to do with good people management skills.

 

[Thommo 42]

Re: If we want Voss, had we better get a wriggle on?

How big was a football department when Matthews started - 3-4 guys?

Footy was barely professional back then, and all you neede to have was a clue about where to position guys.
I don't buy this as an arguement.
What are his attributes that says he is worth the risk?

Fair point about Lethal, but he's still a good coach now. Or are you saying he served an apprenticeship as a head coach? Which wouldn't be out of the question at Carltion given the state of your list, any coach isn't going to take you backwards unless they are as ******ed as Tony Shaw was.

His attributes are that he has the respect of the football community from top to bottom. Has been involved in a succesful organisation and captained a side to 3 premierships. Has played under one of the best coaches of all time and due to injury spent alot of time in the box. Captained a side from a wooden spoon to triple flag glory 3 years later.

He may not have been the coach at the lions, but he would have had a fair idea what is involved.

Each to their own, I woldn't reccomend a club on the edge of the finals take a risk on him, but your boys have been down the bottom for a while now and probably have at least another year down there yet, so perhaps the risk is not as great as the reward could potentially be?

 

[AlecDuncan]

Re: If we want Voss, had we better get a wriggle on?

How funny would it be if two clubs went tooth and nail for an unproven coach who hasn't even been an assistant yet?

Just because someone else is dumb enough to do it doesn't mean we should fall over ourselves to be dumber. I hope the club is too smart to get into a bidding war over an unproven coach. By all means take him on as an assistant (next: who goes?), but let's not give away the farm.

I'd rather keep Pagan for his last year than sign Voss for three. I don't care how good they are, they have to do an apprenticeship. If it's good enough for just about every other premiership coach, it's good enough for him.

 

[Bluebear]

Re: If we want Voss, had we better get a wriggle on?

Fair point about Lethal, but he's still a good coach now. Or are you saying he served an apprenticeship as a head coach? Which wouldn't be out of the question at Carltion given the state of your list, any coach isn't going to take you backwards unless they are as ******ed as Tony Shaw was.

My point with Matthews is the game was different then, clubs were different then, and many players went stright from playing to coachnig in a few years (Sheedy another)

His attributes are that he has the respect of the football community from top to bottom. Has been involved in a succesful organisation and captained a side to 3 premierships. Has played under one of the best coaches of all time and due to injury spent alot of time in the box. Captained a side from a wooden spoon to triple flag glory 3 years later.

He may not have been the coach at the lions, but he would have had a fair idea what is involved.

You raise some points worth discussing (finally someone puts a case forward.........)

1. Has the respect of the football community - nice, but not really relevant to being a head coach.
2. Been involved in a successful organisation and captained the side to 3 flags - its odes seem thatthe coaches come from clubs that have had success, so this is in is favour.
3. Played under a great coach and spent heaps of time inthe box - yes on the coach, and on being in the box I would say thats great and would give him some insight into the coaching world, but with no responsibility for making decisions on the spot it can look easy

Each to their own, I woldn't reccomend a club on the edge of the finals take a risk on him, but your boys have been down the bottom for a while now and probably have at least another year down there yet, so perhaps the risk is not as great as the reward could potentially be?

Some good points raised, but not compelling enough.

I think Vossy would probably make a great coach, but really needs to find his way into an assistant role for a while - decide what sort of coach he can be, then take a shot.

IMO too many people here are buying into the media hype about it, and are just assuming he is the next big thing..........lets go for someone who has been building this career path for a number of years.
Longmire, Bond, Harvey, even Ratten.
Otherwise, put Voss on, let him spend a year under Pagan, then go for the senior spot.

 

[ericpascoe]

Re: If we want Voss, had we better get a wriggle on?

Voss or not, the basic point is right - now that Daniher has quit the merry go round begins and decisions re 2008 will start being made

Carlton needs to make decisions now (or soon) - if Pagan is going to coach in 2008, ok, but if he's not, no good waiting till October to start hunting up a new coach - we may well be choosing from the best of the leftovers by then!

 

[Kooley]

Re: If we want Voss, had we better get a wriggle on?

Tim Watson was a captain and multiple premiership player.
Next reason.

tim wtason was always renowned and still is as being aloof and full of himself.

 

[AlecDuncan]

Re: If we want Voss, had we better get a wriggle on?

BTW, should we be more worried about keeping Brett Ratten than getting Michael Voss?

 

[as0l0]

Re: If we want Voss, had we better get a wriggle on?

We should sign him now and get Dennis to do a half season handover. Dennis' reason for doing it is that he gets his contract paid out.

 

[blueskies]

Re: If we want Voss, had we better get a wriggle on?

Voss or not, the basic point is right - now that Daniher has quit the merry go round begins and decisions re 2008 will start being made

Carlton needs to make decisions now (or soon) - if Pagan is going to coach in 2008, ok, but if he's not, no good waiting till October to start hunting up a new coach - we may well be choosing from the best of the leftovers by then!

Thanks ericpascoe, this thread was not intended to be a 'do you want Voss?' thread, it was about the coaching merry-go-round and whether Carlton would need to act if THEY wanted Voss.

Tim Watson said this morning that history shows the coaching merry-go-round, like trade week hinges on the first deal going through. Now that Daniher is gawn, the dominoes might start falling.

Laidley was asked this morning if he, as a career coach would hypothetically seek to move on the Melbourne job now that it is free. It would give him a new lease of stability (maybe a 2-3 year deal) given he is not contracted at North for 2008.

 

[jj1978]

Re: If we want Voss, had we better get a wriggle on?

We should sign him now and get Dennis to do a half season handover. Dennis' reason for doing it is that he gets his contract paid out.

And then during this handover there is a realisation that Voss wont cut it.... then we pay out Voss, pay out Pagan... and then start crawling around for a new coach??

As mentioned by others if the club is serious about getting a new coach, a review will have to take place and to give us the best option of obtaining the best available will have to wait till towards the end of the season where the standings of all current and prospective coaches are there to interview.

If we were interested in Matthews (as speculated elsewhere) he would not be able to talk to us till end of season, same with Clarkson, same with Laidley etc etc etc....

Voss will still have to sort his legalities with Channel 10 before giving himself the all clear.

Do we want to put this all on top of our players with 10 rounds to go as well... so they get thoughts that if they perform badly again they can use a coaching situation as a scapegoat.

Pagan to finish off this year, then a more professional review to be held (as opposed to last years one) and let Pratt and Co make a decision.

At this point Pagan I believe is looking safe if the team pulls out another 4 wins or so.. and I suspect Melbourne will tank the season so there is 2/4 already.

 

[AlecDuncan]

Re: If we want Voss, had we better get a wriggle on?

If we were interested in Matthews (as speculated elsewhere) he would not be able to talk to us till end of season, same with Clarkson, same with Laidley etc etc etc....

We wouldn't be able to talk to him until the end of 2008. He's contracted for next year.

 

[blueskies]

Re: If we want Voss, had we better get a wriggle on?

What happens if the Dees play a blinder tomorrow night, because they feel they have let their coach down?

 

[Thrawn]

Re: If we want Voss, had we better get a wriggle on?

I'd have to agree with Bluebear on this one.

There are other options who may likely be the better choice, those that have been in the senior coaching system for a few years now.